dead prez and revolution

[socialistfuture]

the topic black nationalism well its come up a couple of times that i have seen in che lives mainly when people are talking about dead prez.
is it counter revolutionary to have parties of only black revolutionaries? seems the 'new black panther party' is advocating it and i found a forum that wanted only black revolutionaries. these sites are for african revolution.

well here area few sites:

Assata Shakur forums
http://www.assatashakur.org/forums/upload/vbindex.php

red, black and green/ revolutionairy but gangsta
http://www.dhost.info/rbg/viewtopic.php?t=101

dead prez forum:
http://forums1.sonymusic.com/eve/ubb.x?a=f...1093&f=96710189 (http://forums1.sonymusic.com/eve/ubb.x?a=frm&s=8581093&f=96710189)

and have a skim over some of this:
http://www.hiphopmusic.com/archives/000512.html .........

The New Dead Prez Video
I've always respected Dead Prez and thought it was good for hip-hop to have them around, even if I found some of their analysis short-sighted (such as their "f*** they schools" stance later adopted by Kanye). We've had them on the radio show and they impressed me as deeply, sincerely committed to making a difference for their community. Plus their music is funky.

But their new song and video "Hell Yeah?" Umm, I don't think I like it.

I'm all in favor of encouraging kids who think they are gangstas to show and prove by "banging on the system" instead of each other. But you need to know the difference between riding against the system and riding off a cliff with all the other lemmings.

Violent robberies of pizza delivery people, carjacking a family simply because they are white and drove into a black neighborhood, these are not revolutionary acts. They do not make you a freedom fighter. Far from pimping the system, this is doing exactly what the system wants you to do. This is obediently following the path laid out for you, straight into the bowels of the system until you are too deep to ever escape.

I'd like to think their intent is to draw in kids who are caught up in that cycle, so they can expose those kids to a broader vision and help them to elevate. But where is that broader vision expressed in the song?

I'd like to think the last ten seconds of the video are meant to indicate we shouldn't take the rest of it literally, that they're not actually condoning all the actions they describe and it's really meant as a cautionary tale, or something. But if that was their intention then they're basically saying their own song is BS, because on the record itself nobody gets arrested and nobody wakes up from a dream.

Can somebody dissuade me on this? Cuz right now "Hell Yeah" strikes me as Bill O'Reilly's wet dream.

[wet blanket]

Those guys are funnier than the trots.

All kidding aside, this is a rather disturbing trend. I'd really hate to see racial militancy get popular. Kinda reminds me of an afro-fascism.

[commiecrusader]

i like their music but some of it is bs. i see where your coming from with your analysis of 'hell yeah', because if they do the stuff described in the song they are bound to end up in prison, where the bigots that run most countries want them. however, many songs talk about pimping etc or christianity and other religions, and no-one thinks these are going to turn people either into pimps or christians. i think whilst factual based media can be quite powerful, most people dont actually look to what rappers are talking about to tell them what to do.

[socialistfuture]

i personally am pretty big fans of theres and political hip hop. and quite like the black panther (the real ones) and martin luther king, and malcom X and so on.

and while i think what was done to black people and still is really sucks. and there is still blacks filling the prisons and lots of what they say is true - saying white people are the enemy will not help them in the end.
with lyrics like:
' everywhere the white man goes he brings misery, all throughout histroty - look it up....every government he set up is corrupt... (dead prez - ghetto youths ft steve marley)

that sorta stuff is going to alienate white revolutionaries from fighting for black rights. its a complicated thing - and there is still a fuck load of white supremecists in the states so sometime black ppl do have to protect themselves (from the cops too) and ghettos still exist - the exploitation continues.

then u could say its the gangster culture and the anti-system/anti-pigs legacy - from thug life type stuff with 2pac and others - right through to today - its present in some of hip hop culture and music. while malcom x in the end realised fighting white wasnt going to fix the problem and started turning towards socialism and working with all people - not all black revolutionaries have or are willing to.

of course i will say racism on both sides of the fence is racism - the historical injustices done to blacks has not been redeemed and has not ended. africa is still exploited by western countries - and fucked over.

freedom to all peoples - is if course what we need and unity between black and other revolutionaries. i think as long as people see we are fighting not for them but with them - and we are fighting white supremecy and eurocentric bigotry things will smooth out.

fight racism - fight capitalism

[pandora]

I agree. I heartily support African Pride and African American Associations I know, especially if they allow people of other races and ethnicities to enter.

The schools I work with tend to have many many ethnic groups an societies.
But sometimes people don't identify as much with either the group they are born into or they are mixed race and culture. Particularly in the US the whole facist thing of only African American discriminates not only against other ethnicities that wish to learn more, which totally handicappes the movement.

BUt Also discriminates against people of mixed race and color!!! Often I"ve seen light skin blacks associate with other groups are into sports and career associations without associating with African or Black Pride Associations because they feel it limits them to one race

OR they have faced serious DISCRIMINATION AND TAUNTS for their light brown skin!! This has to stop, and is stupid. The one school I work at is 80% minority, ie.) Anglo is the minority. It is a professional school .

The MAJORITY of students are mixed race or ethnicity.
WAKE UP AND SMELL THE MIXING POT!!!

Also, at the Dead Prez show I attended they encouraged young African women to get up and shake their ass on stage, one girl was like 16!
This does not instill pride, and is more sexist BULLSHIT!
It sure as hell aint starting no revolution!
Also jumping out of a car and mugging a white guy in a suit is bullshit too, you don't know his deal if he's poor and struggling in a dead end job, if he's got kids to feed and a wife to support.
That's straight up bullshit.
THat's what cowards do who can't change things to the top, they take pop shots at the worker bees.
GOt go against the MOtherlode not the drone. Got to wake the drones up!

[Hampton]

Is it counter revolutionary to have parties of only black revolutionaries?

What do you think the original Panthers were?


Violent robberies of pizza delivery people, carjacking a family simply because they are white and drove into a black neighborhood, these are not revolutionary acts.

In all honesty I think that if they think that they are only fooling themselves. I saw them about a year ago and more than half the audience is white singing along with fists up in the air. Whether or not they know what it exactly means or if they support the revolution that they are singing about is certainly debatable, I?m sure most are just go along with the crowd and there are so whose support goes beyond just the music.


I'd like to think their intent is to draw in kids who are caught up in that cycle, so they can expose those kids to a broader vision and help them to elevate. But where is that broader vision expressed in the song?

I don?t think the music is the revolution and that in the end they are just a group of guys who sing about being oppressed and suffering under a system of exploitation. I would like to think that they have the effect of someone who sees the face of Che on a shirt, they get curious and investigate it and that is their introduction of leftism, communism or whatever. In the same way that Che isn?t the answer to all questions and you should not follow every word that he says, it is the same with these guys, it?s just two guys putting forth an idea.


Cuz right now "Hell Yeah" strikes me as Bill O'Reilly's wet dream.

Bill hates rap, he will always hate rap. Their intent should not to be a video to please him, in the leats it should be one that will piss him off.


with lyrics like:
' everywhere the white man goes he brings misery, all throughout histroty - look it up....every government he set up is corrupt... (dead prez - ghetto youths ft steve marley)

He?s right about one thing, there?s no such thing as a non corrupt government.


that sorta stuff is going to alienate white revolutionaries from fighting for black rights.

If they get turned from fighting for the rights of an oppressed group of people because of a music lyric then you were never really committed to it in the first place. There will always be people who have discouraging things to say if you choose to take it a certain way.


freedom to all peoples - is if course what we need and unity between black and other revolutionaries. i think as long as people see we are fighting not for them but with them - and we are fighting white supremacy and euro centric bigotry things will smooth out.

Rock n Roll.

[bunk]

i thought they wouldn't perform if a white person showed up at their show.

[socialistfuture]

Is it counter revolutionary to have parties of only black revolutionaries?


What do you think the original Panthers were?
the black panthers worked with non-back revolutionaries - for instance Jerry Rubin (a white yippie) was good freinds with Eldridge Cleaver (who wrote an introdution to his book) - Eldtridge Cleaver was a black panther. At some stages the white and black revolutionaries were not on talking terms.

Hell there was meetings with the KKK and black nationalists to talk about setting up the white and black zones. Malcom X was originally a staunch black nationalist and was booted from the Nation of Islam when he started questioning the need for segregation.

I think Dead Prez is right in a lot of what they say - even white socialists may still have think non-europeans dont work so hard or have eurocentric views. Earlier this year at a socialist conference I was at there was quite a heated discussion on that issue. I find a lot of socialist parties Don't have Indiginous people or blacks and asians. Of course in different areas that varies - in south america there has been quite a history of indiginous resistance.

[/QUOTE]Also, at the Dead Prez show I attended they encouraged young African women to get up and shake their ass on stage, one girl was like 16!
This does not instill pride, and is more sexist BULLSHIT![QUOTE]

guess its the gangsta comming out over the revolutionary - its wierd coz they do have lyrics speaking of woman in a good way (mindsex being a song about it).
Paris is another wicked rapper - check out how dangerous he looks in this picture...

[socialistfuture]

here is some intresting info about the Black Panther Party
http://www.marxists.org/history/usa/workers/black-panthers/

It seems the FBI had a part in the ending of the black panthers. of course there is the 'new black panthers party' but they have nothing to do with the old one - they just stole the name. eldridge cleaver later became anti-communist and changed his ideas - he died in 1998.


The practices of the late Malcolm X were deeply rooted in the theoretical foundations of the Black Panther Party. Malcolm had represented both a militant revolutionary, with the dignity and self-respect to stand up and fight to win equality for all oppressed minorities; while also being an outstanding role model, someone who sought to bring about positive social services; something the Black Panthers would take to new heights. The Panthers followed Malcolm's belief of international working class unity across the spectrum of color and gender, and thus united with various minority and white revolutionary groups. From the tenets of Maoism they set the role of their Party as the vanguard of the revolution and worked to establish a united front, while from Marxism they addressed the capitalist economic system, embraced the theory of dialectical materialism, and represented the need for all workers to forcefully take over the means of production

and commiecrusader - thats wasnt my writing about the hell yeah video - sorry i didnt make that clear it is from the site http://www.hiphopmusic.com/archives/000512.html

It's sad the black panthers got torn apart - with Mumia now in jail - Huey shot dead and other unfortunate things. The 60s had such potential - the movement got fucked over - ppl betrayed their ideals and hippies become buisnessmen - i never want to 'grow up' - im in this for life.

[Hampton]

the black panthers worked with non-back revolutionaries - for instance Jerry Rubin (a white yippie) was good freinds with Eldridge Cleaver (who wrote an introdution to his book) - Eldtridge Cleaver was a black panther. At some stages the white and black revolutionaries were not on talking terms.

Yes, but the party itself consisted of black members, and for all intensive purposes it was for the struggle for black liberation, hence the whole party platform being focused about the community in which they lived. Huey Newton I believe said that white people, if they really wanted to help, should do things in their community and let the Panthers do their thing and they can come together on common ground.

Malcom X was originally a staunch black nationalist and was booted from the Nation of Islam when he started questioning the need for segregation.

It was more him being silenced for the "Chickens coming home to Roost" comment about JFK and him finding out about Elijah?s illegitimate kids that him being against the segregation that they preached. It was also that they did a lot of non action, they did not support other civil rights groups of the time and we not really in the streets as much as they should have been. He talked against the segregation and the idea of whites not being about to join them after his trip to Mecca and other world travels.

It seems the FBI had a part in the ending of the black panthers.

Do you know of COINTELPRO? If not, Ward Churchill wrote a book about it with the same name.

[socialistfuture]

nah i havent heard of COINTELPRO or read any of ward churchill's writing yet.

im going to read revolutionairy suicide - huey's book when i catch up with a mate -i've read books by abbie hoffman and jerry rubin - im pretty intrested in the 60s and the black panthers.

what was the chickens comming home to roost comment? what did it mean?
it sucks how many great people have been assasinated or murdered - ghandi, malcom X, martin luther king, che, huey newton....... imagine what could of been done of they hadn't gone.

[Umoja]

I kinda gave up on Dead Prez.

I heard them on Hot97 (the main rap station in New York), and they were going hardcore with their country accents but it seemed like they were trying to sound more like country people from ATL (which is the current new birthing ground for rappers). They were talking like "Yo, gotta get that green son.... you know we be ridin' round in cars with dem hos" and all this other crap.

I never even bought the RBG album, "Get Free or Die Trying" was already them starting to fall off.... and the 'Hell Yeah' video.... bleh. It's like when they cut there dreads, they lost their sesne.

Paris is far less radical then DPZ, he seems almost partisan, but I like him alot more. He hasn't lost sight of what he needs to say, and he has his own label so no one controls what he says either, which I love.

The Coup is the same, but I don't know if they are still making music.

On the far side of the spectrum Askari X (from Oakland) really goes overboard. If you thought Dead Prez goes too far, look for a song called "Hide Tonight" by Askari X, it's about thrill killing white men, women and children.

As far as I'm concerned the best black leader was Malcolm X, and every other black leader needs to try and follow his example, because he's the only one ever to truly get it right.

[nz revolution]

I have 3 of their CDs (copied hehe) and a couple of records.

Man if they did say that stuff like getting the green and cruising with "hos" then they have lost all my respect.

We had this same conversation at a party with them folk and and comrade and I, talked about the same stuff, came to the conclusion their first album was best, they hav changed. Then we put the first album on and did what you do at parties.

Yeah Paris is good, the website had shit about registering to vote which was odd I thought.

Hey Socialist Future, what conference are you talking about? The one in Auckland over Queens Birthday (she needs the chop)?

Sam

[Hiero]

http://www.blackpanther.org/newsalert.htm

There is a open letter from the Dr. Huey P. Newton Foundation about the new black panther party.

Also on this topic i watched a australian docoumentory about war in Iraq and the music. They had a young black male rapper and in his rap he raised his fist and said something about black power and related himself to a Black Panther.

[socialistfuture]

definatly the spirit and ideas of the original black panthers party lives on - but sadly it was ripped apart from internatl presure and other factors.
i heard about a black panther film festival - man that would be cool - its in the states tho - too far away fro me.

[resist1]

Yo, <socialistfuture>

As an enlightend mind here on this board it makes me very skeptical about futture and possible release of positive energy, in regards to your current post about dead prez.

We as people of color, not only benefit from nationalism but must strive to aproach simmilar steps on our way to liberation. We must not solidly stop at nationalism but rather extend our fuill scale organized attack into the beautiful realm of self determined freedom.

I believe Dpz is not only positive but they are Mc&#39;s with potential and positive mindstate.

Are you scared of them because they challenge white supremacy? Are you guys mad the music is for "Blacks n Brown"?

In reality, the music they create reaches out to all oppressed people around the word and focuses on the movement for afrikans here in the amerikkka. I have no problem with that.

The approach to organization they have followed is one of brother Fred Hampton. By organizing our street tribes from the ghetto we become an unstoppable revolutionary force and inspire others to act simmilarly. This is attempted through music.

Still runnin,

-resist1

[socialistfuture]

personally i really love dead prez, and the panthers and X and all that. black ppl have been fucked over time and time again and it is still happening. where i live it is the Maori who get it. i was part of a 20,000 march on parliament for maori rights - it was great fun.

the thing i think is bad tho is when black sepratists dont want to work with non black ppl - eg telling white ppl to fuck off when they are marching or blacks beating up whites - racism can go both ways. they continue the legacy of artists like bob marley - music that is more than music - it is a tool for social change. i put this here because nationalism and racism are important issues. we need to fight together not one another. i hate racism and of course want to end fascism and imperialism and all the stuff that is killing our people and harming this planet.

they schools aint teachin us what we need to know...

[CANDYMAN1]

I think most of you guys are fake. Either most of you aren&#39;t minorties or live in the suburbs. I think groups like Dead Prez, Immortal Technique, and Paris are great. More racial militancy and revolutionary thought are needed. No one should criticize how radical or non radical someone is. So what if Paris tells people to vote. I happen to think its stupid but if that&#39;s what it takes to get people off their asses and get involved then its great. It might be the first step in getting someone in the revolutionary mindset. Have any of you criticising these singers ever been or spent 24 hours in the hood/barrio? What these singers advocate is necessary. People need to stop banging on each other and start banging against the system. If no one ever stands up we are all doomed. Currently the music and views pushed on minorities is all about material wealth, bling, and hos. Pushing genocide subliminaly. Alienating white people shouldn&#39;t really be a consideration at this point. This music is to inspire a revolutionary consciousness where it is need most. Minorities in this countries, mainly black and brown are the ones that are historically most oppressed. They are the ones that need to become militant and realize who the true enemy is. If it happens to alienate some rich white suburban kids then oh well. Once a movement is started amongst these groups then they can start incorporating with other people. They shouldn&#39;t rely on white people to fight for them. They should learn the root causes of their plight and fight it themselve.
I like the song They Schools. I agree that K-12 is a 12 step brainwash camp. I dropped out of the 10th grade because I couldn&#39;t put up with the racist history bullshit, them trying to ingrain patriotism, and trying to make me into a good worker instead of teaching me skills that I would really need. I didn&#39;t need they schools. Now I&#39;m enrolled in College finishing my degree. Skipping those years of school was probably the best thing I did. I taught myself through reading and life experiences. I&#39;m not saying education is bad but just the government&#39;s brainwashing program is.

[Eastside Revolt]

Originally posted by [email protected] 17 2005, 07:40 PM
I think most of you guys are fake. Either most of you aren&#39;t minorties or live in the suburbs. I think groups like Dead Prez, Immortal Technique, and Paris are great. More racial militancy and revolutionary thought are needed. No one should criticize how radical or non radical someone is.
No one here is saying that revolutionary music isn&#39;t a positive thing. The truth is though that racism will not cure racism.

Of course it would be negative to have black youths growing up wanting to be GI Joe, but that doesn&#39;t mean the answer is "slap a white boy".

I like Dead Prez for the most part, but like alot of hip hop, there are some things about them that make me go: :rolleyes:

[Umoja]

I think most of you guys are fake. Either most of you aren&#39;t minorties or live in the suburbs.
Not to start a black civil war on this forum, but you&#39;re essentially saying that becoming a middle class black is a bad thing. Although I respect the working class, and see the need for their liberation, I wouldn&#39;t advocate people not trying to rise up from their current low position in a capitalist society. You seem like one of those people who watched TC Carson turn white in "Livin&#39; Large" and weren&#39;t offended. This is of course assuming you saw that terrible movie....


Currently the music and views pushed on minorities is all about material wealth, bling, and hos. Pushing genocide subliminaly.
No one is denying this. But when certain artist coughDeadprezcough start advocating the things that mainstream rappers advocate it is a problem. They&#39;ve fallen into the exact same trap that Tupac fell into.


Alienating white people shouldn&#39;t really be a consideration at this point. This music is to inspire a revolutionary consciousness where it is need most. Minorities in this countries, mainly black and brown are the ones that are historically most oppressed. They are the ones that need to become militant and realize who the true enemy is. If it happens to alienate some rich white suburban kids then oh well.
White people love dead prez, just as much as white people love Bob Marley. Alienation isn&#39;t the problem.


I like the song They Schools. I agree that K-12 is a 12 step brainwash camp. I dropped out of the 10th grade because I couldn&#39;t put up with the racist history bullshit, them trying to ingrain patriotism, and trying to make me into a good worker instead of teaching me skills that I would really need. I didn&#39;t need they schools. Now I&#39;m enrolled in College finishing my degree. Skipping those years of school was probably the best thing I did. I taught myself through reading and life experiences. I&#39;m not saying education is bad but just the government&#39;s brainwashing program is.

I&#39;m going to use a Dubois-ian term here, you&#39;re part of the &#39;talented 1/10." Most people are incapable of being leaders, you on the other hand are. I wouldn&#39;t reccommend dropping out of high school to anyone, but clearly you were able to take charge of your own life. Don&#39;t let your flame fizzle out.