Isreal has gone too far - aint that the truth!

[peaccenicked]

Israel has gone too far
By Barbara Robinson


Is it too much to ask the media to give us a balanced view of what is happening in the Middle East?

Every time there is a suicide bombing we get the grisly pictures, but Israel — which calls itself a democracy — would not allow the International Red Cross or any members of the press in to see the alleged slaughter and mass destruction that they had committed in Jenin and Bethlehem.

It's time for the media to stand up and develop. Americans have not illegally occupied any place for more than 30 years. We have not built houses on another's land, we have not imprisoned a people, bulldozed their houses, cut off their water and electricity. We have not mentally terrorized a country.

Israel is defining the war. Too much time has been spent on whether one side will denounce suicide bombing ... without equal weapons, that is what the Palestinians have been reduced to.

Israel behaves like a child doing something wrong who wants to draw attention away from his actions. For months Israel has been allowed to go into Palestine and assassinate alleged terrorists. This is not how American democracy responds. We have trials.

We must be responsible friends. We must tell our friends when they have gone wrong, when they are too blinded to see the big picture.

Palestinians are human beings and have every right to defend themselves. Let's consider giving Palestinians had to prove that Sharon's latest brutal tactic wouldn't work. Has no one learned anything from our war in Vietnam? The language is different, but the tactics are the same.

Today we call the guerrillas terrorists. Remember the United States with all of our modern weaponry fighting locals in a foreign land? At the beginning of the Vietnam era, no one thought we could lose that war. Secretary of State Colin Powell's failure was not his inability to secure a peace agreement. His failure was a moral one ... he left the area without going to Jenin or Bethlehem.

He lacked the courage to say Arafat is the chosen leader of the Palestinian people and must be included in any peace negotiations. How can Arafat — a 72-year-old man imprisoned for more than 20 days in a compound surrounded by dead men with no running water, working toilets or electricity, cut off from his people, his infrastructure destroyed — influence the pace of the peace process?

[Blasphemy]

if this barbara robinson hasn't been to jenin and bethlehem, and didn't see any reporters report from there, how does he know there was a massacre? of course she is right in most things in the article, but saying there was a massacre without spending a single minute to investigate is outragous.

altought this article is basically true, i find the americans' hypocrisy annoying. they talk about war crimes while bombing dozens of villages in afghanistan and killing the local population there. they are quick to forget that they murdered hundreds of innocent villagers in vietnam and in numerous other places.

i think the americans need to take a good look at themselves before talking about war crimes.

sharon is a chosen leader as well, but that doesn't mean he can be a part of a peace process. neither sharon nor arafat can be a part of a peace process. sharon's time is short. he's coalition is slowly crumbling and he has a lot of people within his own party that work against him. araft day is coming as well. the israeli military action in the territories weakened him greatly. people around him are already working to take his place. what we need now is a cease-fire, and wait for another leadership in order to start a fair peace process.

[Reuben]

Sharon and Arafat are incomparable. Arafat has done so much more to promote peace. His biggest sacrifice was at Oslo which many more hard-line palestinians such as Said have criticized him for signing. At Oslo Arafat agreed to recognize Israel in 78 % of what once was the British mandate in palestine.

It amazes me that people regard Arafat as a war monger. He is constantly attacked for his peaceful stance.

[Blasphemy]

i agree that arafat made many sacrifices in oslo, but since then 7 years passed. since then, he was mislead by netanyahu and barak. he has lost his faith in israel, and in the past two years i think he has lost his sanity.

but i must admit that lately, since israel withdrew from the A territories, it seems that arafat might have changed. he declared that elections will take place once israel stops the vile occupation and he has formed a reform commitee. he may have came back to his senses. sharon, on the other hand, will always remain a general who can only make war, not peace.

[El Che]

Blasphemy I dont think you want to upset your yankee "friends", that would be very bad, seeing as how you have so many enemies... Dont forget how much you need those $$ haha thats right, just play along, you know they are the ones that call the shots anyway so why make a fus.

And about replacing arafat... I know what you want, you want some puppet to take his place and give away what belongs to the palestinian people. I tell you right now that it aint gonna happen, and if it does, its only going to happen on paper. The intifada continues.

[guerrillaradio]

Above all else, Arafat is incompetent. He is incapable of controlling the terrorist suicide bombers (which they are, not martyrs as some Muslim idealists would have us believe) which comprise a sizeable proportion of his youth.

Blasphemy - the thing that indicated to me that there was a massacre in Jenin was the lack of injured. If there had been a shoot-out between Israeli soldiers and armed Palestinians (as the Israelis would have us believe), would there not have been more wounded than dead?? All there is in Jenin is hundreds of dead bodies, very few injured indeed.

[Blasphemy]

i don't know what happened in jenin, but you can't state that there was a massacre without investigating the issue thouroughly. Larsen, the UN representative, came to jenin, and after an hour decided that there was a massacre. he didn't speak with the israelis, he didn't do any serious investigation, but he decided that there was a massacre. if someone comes and examines the matter seriously and then comes to the conclusion that there was a massacre, i'll respect that. but no one has done so, yet.

[jimr]

It occured to me last night that people are far too quick to condem suicide bombers. When a man, or woman is willing to give their life for what they believes in they should atleast get more respect than someone who will only act when they have bombed the entire country to shit. They are giving their own lives to kill. What is more they are called cowards! How can this be? Would you kill yourself for a cause you believed it? Do not be so quick as to conform to the propoganda about suiicde bombers. It is far more heinous to kill people from the skies at no risk to themselves, than it is to kill yourself to attain a goal.

Now do not get me wrong. I do not condone the killing of non combatants. However both sides are guilty of this. Atleast the suicide bombers are willing to sacrafice their own lifes for their cause rather than teh cowardly people in their tanks running over unarmed civilians.

Hatred breads hatred. Everytime a suicide bomber hits israel, for every israeli killed five or so Palestines "terrorists" will soon be killed in revenge. Why is it I ask you that Israel only every knows where the terrorists are after the suicide bombings. It is insane. They simply murder suspected terrorists. Now some of those that are murdered will have brothers or sons or close friends who will see this slaughter and decide that enough it enough. They may decide to become a suicide bomber themselves. My point is teh circle contines. The only way that the peace process can go ahead is if both sides stop trying to please everyone. The Israeli government is as eager to hold onto its power as it is to solve the crisis. At the moment teh majority of Israelis wish for strong reprisals due to the mass propoganda about suiicde bombers. If an Israeli prime minister was to come to power who was a moderate, who realised that drastic times cause for drastic measures they would realise also that the only way the conflict can be resolved is for Israel to relinquish all control over Palestine areas and to withdraw completely.

This is the only way I can see forward.

[Blasphemy]

jimr, i don't define people who kill innocent civilians as "brave". they do it because they hate israel, and if they truly thing that what they're doing promotes the palestinians struggle in any way, they are very very wrong.

[RGacky3]

You know what pisses me off. Sharon says that there can be no peace with arafat. but without arafat there can be no palestine, arafat is the only thing that keeps the palestinians together. Sharon does not want peace he wants no palestine.

[I Will Deny You]

[hr]Quote: from Blasphemy on 3:16 am on May 20, 2002
if this barbara robinson hasn't been to jenin and bethlehem, and didn't see any reporters report from there, how does he know there was a massacre? of course she is right in most things in the article, but saying there was a massacre without spending a single minute to investigate is outragous.[hr]Anyone, Barbara Robinson or otherwise, can take a pretty good guess that there was a massacre in Jenin because witness reports confirm this and, let's face it, if the Israeli soldiers had brought puppies on their tanks to give to the Palestinians and had painted rainbows all over the place, the press and Red Cross wouldn't be banned.[hr]Quote: from Blasphemy on 3:16 am on May 20, 2002
altought this article is basically true, i find the americans' hypocrisy annoying. they talk about war crimes while bombing dozens of villages in afghanistan and killing the local population there. they are quick to forget that they murdered hundreds of innocent villagers in vietnam and in numerous other places.[hr]Not all Americans are the same. The Americans who support the war in Afghanistan usually support funding Israel and the Americans who are against the war in Afghanistan almost always support a UN inquiry. With 280 million of us, we're never going to agree.

Lindsay

[Blasphemy]

Barabara Robinson only heard on side of the story. palestinians told her there was a massacre, and she believed them, without investigating further. a good journalist also needs to see if the witnesses he hears are rilable. the palestinians have an interest that israel would be blamed of massacring the palestinian population. this would greatly promote their goal. did she speak with an israeli soldier? i doubt it...

[guerrillaradio]

Ok, so we don't know there was a massacre. However, all the evidence so far seems to point that way. You claim that the UN only stayed there an hour, the main reason for that was the fact that your beloved Israeli soldiers refused them entry into Jenin, as you did Red Cross and all journalists. One British journalist managed to gain access to Jenin while the Israeli soldiers were leaving and I've dug up the article for you:

http://www.che-lives.com/cgi/community/top...c=1228&start=10 (http://www.che-lives.com/cgi/community/topic.pl?forum=11&topic=1228&start=10)

[Blasphemy]

the only evidence they have is dead bodies and destruction. and yes, if we overlook the fact that buildings were boobie trapped by the palestininas themselves it may seem as if israel killed them all. that is untrue.
none of you are probably going to believe me, but the israeli armed forces to do shoot premiscuously. they take the outmost care not to hit civilians. before a building is bombed they check a hundred times that there are no civilians in the area.

the IDF is not a moral army, but it's one of the most moral armies in the world today. soldiers do not kill innocent civilians intentionally, but mistakes are made. mistakes that shouldn't happen because we shouldn't be in the territories at the first place.

[I Will Deny You]

Quote: from Blasphemy on 4:09 am on May 21, 2002
Barabara Robinson only heard on side of the story. palestinians told her there was a massacre, and she believed them, without investigating further.[hr]How do you know that? Just because she didn't quote someone in the article, doesn't mean she didn't interview them.[hr]Quote: from Blasphemy on 4:09 am on May 21, 2002
a good journalist also needs to see if the witnesses he hears are rilable.[hr]If the details of the story are confirmed by many people, as they seem to be from the different witness reports and articles that say the same thing, it can be more or less assumed that the information is reliable. The only way to know for sure is to investigate the site personally, but the Israeli army won't let anyone do that.[hr]Quote: from Blasphemy on 4:09 am on May 21, 2002
the palestinians have an interest that israel would be blamed of massacring the palestinian population. this would greatly promote their goal.[hr]BOTH sides have something invested in the media's perception of these events. An Israeli soldier wouldn't be any more reliable.

Lindsay

[LeonardoDaVinci]

Quote: from I Will Deny You on 9:58 pm on May 20, 2002
Anyone, Barbara Robinson or otherwise, can take a pretty good guess that there was a massacre in Jenin because witness reports confirm this and, let's face it, if the Israeli soldiers had brought puppies on their tanks to give to the Palestinians and had painted rainbows all over the place, the press and Red Cross wouldn't be banned.

Lindsay


LOL.

[Blasphemy]

usually when a reporter conducts serious research, this reflects in his article. according to robinson's article, it seems as if she just wrote what she thinks happened, without conducting any research.

[Blasphemy]

besides, the palestinian authority is very good at faking things. i'm pretty sure they haven't showed it on cnn, but one time the palestinians had a huge funeral to an innocent man who was shot dead by an israeli soldier. thousands swarmed the streets of ramallah, to accompany their fallen friend in his journey to his grave. in the middle of the funeral, the dead man started snizzing, which caused him to fall down from where he was lying. the fall hurt his elbow and he started bleeding and yelling because of the pain. he was quickly returned to his deathbed, but then, because it was very humid, he started to sweat, so he wiped the sweat of his face with a tissue.

[guerrillaradio]

Quote: from Blasphemy on 9:17 pm on May 21, 2002
the IDF is not a moral army, but it's one of the most moral armies in the world today.

So, pray explain, how come thousands of Israeli soldiers (including a senior general) are mutineering?? And did you actually read the article on the link??