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h&s
3rd September 2004, 09:26
Satellite tracking for criminals

Prolific offenders and paedophiles are to be monitored by new satellite technology under three pilot schemes beginning on Thursday.
It is the first time a European country has used satellites to monitor the movements of offenders.

Convicted burglars, robbers and car thieves will be fitted with an electronic device that can be tracked by satellite 24 hours a day.

The trials are in Greater Manchester, West Midlands and Hampshire.


The electronic device will be monitored by a control station which records the location of the offender to within a few metres.

If the offender strays into an area they are excluded from the police are alerted.

The system will also be used to prevent sex offenders going to playgrounds and schools and to stop people convicted of domestic violence from approaching their victims.

Offenders will be required to wear the device as part of a community sentence, or as a condition of their release from prison.
Initially, the system will be used to track up to 120 offenders at any one time, but if the technology works, the Home Office will massively expand it in England and Wales.

Home Secretary David Blunkett launched the trials in Greater Manchester on Thursday.

He calls the scheme a "prison without bars".

Speaking at the launch, he said the system would help to ensure offenders are "sticking to the conditions of their licence and staying away from crime".

He said: "Our sentencing reforms were not just about being tougher on the most serious offenders.

"This technology will allow us to develop and promote the tough community sentences which are vital if we are to prevent re-offending and give non-violent offenders a chance to serve an effective sentence in the community."


Broken curfews

Correctional services minister Paul Goggins told BBC Radio 4's Today programme that it could cover several thousand people, including 5,000 prolific offenders.

He said: "We estimate there are 5,000 prolific offenders causing major problems and mayhem with their offending behaviour, day in, day out. So they would be a clear target.

"It will be a very, very clear, constant reminder to the offenders that we're watching them, we know where they've been, we know what they're doing and if they stray, we'll act to stop them."

Harry Fletcher, assistant general secretary of probation union Napo, said the system was a "very expensive resource" only suitable for the most serious criminals.

"Satellite tracking is another form of control which by itself will not prevent crime. It must be seen as part of a package," he said.

'No major complaints'

Ex-prisoners' campaign group Unlock favours the tagging system as an alternative to jailing offenders.

Unlock's chief executive Bobby Cummines said: "I welcome this with open arms.

"I welcome anything where we can monitor people in the community instead of throwing them into prison."

Mr Cummines said tagging systems allow families to stay together, which is the key to rehabilitation.

Human rights group Liberty also said they had "no major complaints" with the system.

The electronic tagging which the government currently relies on is only able to set off an alarm when the offender breaches a curfew.

If a criminal walks out of the house after their curfew an alarm will sound at a central control room, where operators then notify police.

However, under this system there is no way of knowing where the criminal has gone.

What do other people think of this? I know Liberty don't mind it, but police satelite tracking just seems wrong to me.

James
3rd September 2004, 09:29
Trying to do stuff to little kids is worse (i know these people are supposedly one of those groups being tagged).


Its the classic - "yes, this technology could be very nasty in the wrong hands".
But face it, its here now: you can't get rid of it.

RedAnarchist
3rd September 2004, 09:53
As long as its only used to track the lowlifes from the gutters like paedophiles then i think this is a very good idea. It doesnt affect their human rights as they are being allowed to stay out of jail even though they have commited evil crimes agaisnt children.

h&s
3rd September 2004, 14:45
Seems I'm in the minority on this one...

Trying to do stuff to little kids is worse
I couldn't agree with you more, but that argument can lead to complacency. Remeber the Iraq war, and how Tony Blair said that however wrong the war was, letting Saddam Hussein carrying on torturing his people would be worse. And the Patriot Act is better than 'letting terrorists attack the country.'


Its the classic - "yes, this technology could be very nasty in the wrong hands".

And I believe the government's hands are the wrong ones...

James
3rd September 2004, 15:55
It isn't the Home Office "in control" though.

Yes, there are probably potential civil right issues: but if you are going to be like that, you'd never leave your house.

Personally i think it is an excellent idea. And i can't see it being abused in the forseeable future. I may change my opinion, but thats a big MAY.

I think another group being targetted is exclusion orders. These tend to be given to thugs who terrorise areas.

Again, i'm all for people being banned from certain area's, whilst they carry on acting in such a way.


[and i better say this to cover myself: no i'm not all for punishment over caring blah blah blah. Society certainly is to blame to an extent blah blah blah]




oh yeah, what did you think of the Notthingham police approach to handling gun crime? [naming and shaming those guilty via posters]. Liberty didn't like it. Again though, in this i'm on the side of the police.

Kez
3rd September 2004, 18:14
its not the solution though is it.

resources are being directed in the wrong place, and we as marxists must espose this fact, and show the only way to end crime is to end the causes of it.

Nothin good comes from giving more power to uneducated pigs in uniform. oink.

redtrigger
3rd September 2004, 22:26
I think that as long its done to sex offneders it will be okay. It won't stop there however, if the U.S. were to adopt this I can see comrades like Sherman Austin being subjected to this. And who is to say they can ony track the people wearing bracelets. 1984 is 2004. Big Brother is watching you.

refuse_resist
3rd September 2004, 23:07
Yes, the U.S. already has and this is nothing new here. They're even thinking about as going as far as implanting chips into peoples bodies, so they can be monitored 24/7. Sherman Austin has a GPS tracker on him from what I've heard.

h&s
4th September 2004, 09:33
oh yeah, what did you think of the Notthingham police approach to handling gun crime? [naming and shaming those guilty via posters]. Liberty didn't like it. Again though, in this i'm on the side of the police
Thats why I'm against this sort of thing. When you see the national news you think that what the police is doing is good, and in a way it is as it stops crime, but if you see the Nottingham news you will see a different picture.While IU'm for it when it concerns gun crime, they did the same sort of thing with naming and shaming youths with ASBO's by putting their picture on posters under a massive 'not wanted' sign. That has just lead to vigilante attacks, and very serious ones at that against them, their houses, and their terrified families.

James
4th September 2004, 09:49
It's like a modern stocks.
I hadn't heard about the vigilante retaliations. Not sure how i feel about it. One must remember that this is GUN crime. Personally i would prefer a few criminals reeping what they sowed: rather than the UK going the way of the USA.


I agree Kamo.


Whats everyone's opinion on the "break down of the modern family"? I'm not trying to say that it is the primary cause for certain crime, but it certainly does appear to contribute. Anyone watch that program on the ladites the otherday? Think it was BBC2.

h&s
4th September 2004, 10:00
I think the main problem here in Nottingham concerning gun crime is the lack of police, and their complete lack of care - that is what has made the problem of gun crime so bad.


Whats everyone's opinion on the "break down of the modern family"? I'm not trying to say that it is the primary cause for certain crime, but it certainly does appear to contribute.
It may appear to be the case, but haven't we had single parent families for centuries? The real reason (in my opinion) is the lack of support from anyone for these people.


. Anyone watch that program on the ladites the otherday? Think it was BBC2.
That was so sad - I felt so sorry for those girls. I know what they did was wrong, but everything they did was caused by a complete lack of anything else to do.

James
4th September 2004, 10:12
It may appear to be the case, but haven't we had single parent families for centuries? The real reason (in my opinion) is the lack of support from anyone for these people.


Yes, but not as many.


That was so sad - I felt so sorry for those girls. I know what they did was wrong, but everything they did was caused by a complete lack of anything else to do.

They all (i think) had lost their fathers at a young age. The younger one though, was for sure simply a product of her environment.

It's dead-end city life i tell ya'... Get back to the country!


On a more serious note though... this is why i'm such a fan of the scouts and girl guides. They give kids something very productive to do. They also provide a sense of belonging, and encourage people to work together, as a group.

h&s
4th September 2004, 10:23
Yes, but not as many.

What do you propose to do about it then? Make us all go to church? Ban recreational sex? There is no way to stop it, so the real problem has to be how we should involve these people into society to give them something to do.


On a more serious note though... this is why i'm such a fan of the scouts and girl guides. They give kids something very productive to do. They also provide a sense of belonging, and encourage people to work together, as a group
In a way I agree with you, but I would prefer to see something more in touch with what modern people want to do. Hardly anyone is attracted to that sort of thing anymore.

James
4th September 2004, 10:33
What do you propose to do about it then? Make us all go to church? Ban recreational sex? There is no way to stop it, so the real problem has to be how we should involve these people into society to give them something to do.


If you are going to be like that then i'm simply not going to talk to you!

h&s
4th September 2004, 10:36
Hey no offence meant! I'm not saying that you would suggest that. I was just making a point that it is not possible to change.

James
4th September 2004, 10:41
i was merely trying to establish some of the facts.

I hate it when people on here "do this".

It's like with the imperialism thing - if one tries to be as objective as possible, and simply does the historian-thing of making a list of the effects of imperialism (which arn't all negative!), one is accused of "taking a side". I think some people on here just simply enjoy being as biased as possible: and don't like other people to be different.

Now that i have finished ranting, i'll do a proper reply.

Kez
4th September 2004, 10:46
point is your supposed to take a class perspective, not a liberal twat a-level "well actually it is good and bad" answer bollocks.

James
4th September 2004, 10:47
In a way I agree with you, but I would prefer to see something more in touch with what modern people want to do. Hardly anyone is attracted to that sort of thing anymore.


Most people havn't tried it.
From my experiance of working with kids, they simply love to dress up and be part of a gang. They form gangs today.
Why not take this characteristic and mould it into something more productive.

And yes, i will scream if i have a trendy anarchist come up in my face and say something really cool along the lines of
"and brain wash them! the mask is off! you hitler youth person!"

Yes, i will scream.

h&s
4th September 2004, 10:52
The problem is though I know plenty of people who were scouts when they were younger and absolutly loved it, but as soon as they entered secondary school they dropped out of it and started to become trouble-makers. There needs to be something different for older kids.

James
4th September 2004, 10:56
I agree. Although i also think that it would be more of a success if it got more money, resources, and commitment pumped into it.


(i won't reply again, hammer - i've been online too long for one sitting :))

fuerzasocialista
4th September 2004, 11:12
This satellite tracking is a catch-22. Yeah it looks great on paper and it should be implemented against true dangers against society but it will not take long before Big Brother is going to want to keep an eye on everyone. George Orwell was really on to something wasn&#39;t he?? <_<