Attackers storm Russian school

[cormacobear]

That's truly evil and depraved. If us as adults don't think we can resolve our differences without killing one another, that's one thing as adults we have the ability to concede, or kill them.
There is no excuse for taking hundreds of children hostage, they've done nothing they can change nothing, kill voters not children.

It's an outrage, if they blow up 200 children do they honestly beleive that the world won't give Putin a military carte blanche in Chechnya.

[Guerrilla22]

:( This is truly sad, both the Russian military and the chechen resistance have committed numerous atrocities against innocent civillians, but taking school children hostage is absolutely inexcusable, I fear this thing will only end up turning into a blood bath.

[refuse_resist]

Seriously. Hopefully those guys don't end up blowing up the school and killing all those kids. All hell would break loose, and Putin would more than likely go on some sort of power trip and use it as an excuse to attack Chechnya.

[RedAnarchist]

Its been escalating quickly in the last hour according to the news. Apparently the roof has collapsed, children have been stripped naked and given their clothes soaked in water to suck for a drink and the number of hostages may be over 1000.

I doubt that these terrorists have any sense of human conscience. No matter what you cause is, you dont do what they have done in Beslan.

[RedAnarchist]

Apparently the school is now under full control of the Russian troops.

Hopefully, even the Chechens themselves wil be disgusted by these terrorists who are murdering "in their name".

[Sabocat]

There is no excuse for taking hundreds of children hostage, they've done nothing they can change nothing, kill voters not children.

Killing voters is just killing working class that believe they have a power to change things with their votes.

The proper thing to do would be to kill the politicians.

[Pawn Power]

the working class always pays in blood for the problems of the upperclass

[praxis1966]

I just heard the latest on NBC. There are unconfirmed reports of as many as 250 children that have been taken away in ambulances and potentially dozens dead. They say that two women strapped with explosives have escaped into the town, and the rest of the hostage takers are combating the Russian military from two pockets elsewhere in the city.

In other news, Hurricane Francis is coming to kill myself, Crescent, Red Zeppelin and Perception.

[KrazyRabidSheep]

Russians Storm School; 100 Bodies Found

By MIKE ECKEL, Associated Press Writer

BESLAN, Russia - Commandos stormed a school Friday in southern Russia and battled separatist rebels holding hundreds of hostages, as crying children, some naked and covered in blood, fled through explosions and gunfire. More than 100 bodies were reportedly found in the gymnasium where hostages had been held.

The extent of the casualties was not immediately known. The militants, who had been demanding independence for nearby Chechnya (news - web sites), had been keeping up to 1,500 hostages — mostly women and children — in the sweltering gymnasium for more than two days.

Regional emergency officials said at least 100 people were killed. A cameraman for the British network ITN reported seeing around 100 bodies in the gym. The correspondent for Russia's Interfax news agency reported that there were dozens of bodies in the school, including about 100 in the gym, and that some were killed when the building's roof collapsed from an explosion before the main assault began.


Other casualties were reported when militants opened fire on hostages as they fled the building and in fighting that went on for several hours afterward. Russian forces killed 10 of the hostage-takers, Interfax reported. The regional health minister reported that 409 people were wounded, including at least 218 children.

Russian authorities took control of the school in the assault, which did not appear to have been planned beforehand but may have been prompted when the hostage-takers began shooting and setting off explosives.


About a dozen hostage-takers escaped, with the Interfax new agency reporting that they split into three groups to blend in with the hostages and took refuge in a home nearby. Tank fire was heard from the area of the house, Interfax said, and gunfire rang out through the town for hours.


The White House branded the hostage-taking "barbaric" and "despicable" and said responsibility for dozens of lost lives rests with the terrorists. "The United States stands side-by-side with Russia in our global fight against terrorism," spokesman Scott McClellan said.


President Bush (news - web sites) was briefed on developments in Russia Friday morning before a re-election rally in Pennsylvania. He did not talk about the Russian terrorism during his speech.


Huge columns of smoke billowed from the school, where windows were shattered, part of roof gone and another part charred. Commandos, residents and journalists scurried around the building and soldiers climbed inside through a lower floor window, all the glass missing.


People ran through the streets, the wounded carried off on stretchers. An Associated Press reporter saw ambulances speeding by, the windows streaked with blood. Four armed men in civilian clothes ran by, shouting, "A militant ran this way."


Soldiers and men in civilian clothes carried children — some naked, some clad only in underpants, some covered in blood — to a temporary hospital set up behind an armored personnel carrier. One child had a bandage on her head, others had bandaged limbs. Some women, newly freed from the school, fainted.


The children drank eagerly from bottles of water given to them once they reached safety. Many of the children were only partly clothed because of the stifling heat in the gymnasium where they had been held since the militants took the building on Wednesday morning. The hostage-takers had refused to let food or water into the school throughout the standoff.


"I am helping you," a man dressed in camouflage told a crying girl. Women gathered around, trying to soothe her, saying "It's all right. It's all right."


Associated Press Television News footage showed the bodies of four children and a woman, and the ITAR-Tass news agency reported at least seven people killed, including five militants.


A nurse spread clean sheets on stretchers, and told AP that Russian officials expected "very many" wounded.


The chaos erupted on the third day of the hostage standoff in Beslan, a town of 30,000 in North Ossetia, a republic near the wartorn region of Chechnya. North Ossetia's president, Alexander Dzasokhov, said the militants had demanded independence for the nearby wartorn region of Chechnya.


It began after militants had agreed to let Russia retrieve the bodies of people killed early in the raid. Explosions went off as the emergency personnel went to get the bodies at around 1 p.m., collapsing part of the roof of the building, and hostages took the noise as a signal to flee, officials said.





Militants opened fire on fleeing hostages and security forces returned fire. Once the hostage-takers sought to escape, Russian officials apparently made the decision to storm the building.

The militants had reportedly threatened to blow up the building if authorities tried to storm it, but all indications suggested the explosions began before the assault. Russian officials repeatedly said they were not planning to invade and had earlier won the release of 26 hostages through negotiations.

The hostage takers' identities were murky. Lev Dzugayev, a North Ossetian official, said the attackers might be from Chechnya or Ingushetia. Law enforcement sources in North Ossetia and Ingushetia, speaking on condition of anonymity, said the attackers were believed to include Chechens, Ingush, Russians and a North Ossetian suspected of participating in the Ingushetia violence.

Insurgents fought an earlier war for Chechen independence, a conflict that ended in stalemate. In the years since, the rebels and their sympathizers have increasingly taken to assaults and attacks outside the tiny republic.

Negotiators said the hostage-takers had repeatedly refused offers of food and water througout the standoff.

"They are very cruel people, we are facing a ruthless enemy," said Leonid Roshal, a pediatrician involved in the negotiations. "I talked with them many times on my cell phone, but every time I ask to give food, water and medicine to the hostages they refuse my request."

The school seizure came a day after a suspected Chechen suicide bomber blew herself up outside a Moscow subway station, killing nine people, and just over a week after 90 people died in two plane crashes that are suspected to have been blown up by bombers also linked to Chechnya.

In a 2002 theater raid in Moscow, Chechen rebels took about 800 hostages during a performance, a standoff that ended after a knockout gas was pumped into the building, debilitating the captors but causing almost all of the 129 hostage deaths.

There were conflicting reports of the number of hostages being held at the school. Officials had initially said about 350 — but some freed hostages among a small group freed Thursday put the number at about 1,500.

Women escaping the building were seen fainting and others, some covered in blood, were carried away on stretchers. After the escape, commandos assaulted the building.

On Thursday, the militants had freed about 26 hostages, all women and children.

President Vladimir Putin (news - web sites) had said that everything possible would be done to end the "horrible" crisis and save the lives of the children.

http://story.news.yahoo.com/news?tmpl=stor...chool_seizure_8 (http://story.news.yahoo.com/news?tmpl=story&cid=514&e=1&u=/ap/20040903/ap_on_re_eu/russia_school_seizure_8)

[Arrvande]

A war should not be fought using children as sheilds it should be fought man to man

[Non-Sectarian Bastard!]

I have never understood why it's more evil when you kill women and children instead of men. It's not like the lives of men are worth less.

[ÑóẊîöʼn]

Men are mostly bigger and stronger than women and children and can therefore defend themselves more easily. Hurting and killing people weaker than you is known as cowardice.

[Purple]

with their ressources they should try to invade some congress meeting or something, and focus on the people that are actually responsible for their cause.. i mean, what could they possibly expect to get by killing these innocents..?

[LuZhiming]

Originally posted by [email protected] 2 2004, 03:58 AM
:( This is truly sad, both the Russian military and the chechen resistance have committed numerous atrocities against innocent civillians, but taking school children hostage is absolutely inexcusable, I fear this thing will only end up turning into a blood bath.
I don't think you understand the situation in Chechnya. It already is a bloodbath. The Russian military has already killed more than 20,000 people in a population of about 624,000 since August 1999, and that estimate is the lowest one, as casualty estimates have gone as high as 150,000.(The last war in Chechnya killed probably 50,000 Chechens). Chechnya is the bloodiest and sickest occupation going on right now. It isn't Iraq, Afghanistan, or Palestine. The atrocities of the Russian military in Chechnya are some of the worst in a long time. Yes this attack by the Chechens is sick and terrible, but these sorts of attacks are going to happen as long as Russian atrocities and provocation in Chechnya continue. To be honest, I'm actually surprised that more of these sorts of attacks aren't happening, since the scale of devastation in Chechnya is as terrible as it is.

[Fidelbrand]

79 bodies are identified to date.
Militaries carrying out freed but stiff-up babies to the vans. :(

[Saint-Just]

Originally posted by [email protected] 3 2004, 05:10 PM
Men are mostly bigger and stronger than women and children and can therefore defend themselves more easily. Hurting and killing people weaker than you is known as cowardice.
I think the greater concern is about the men of the country being guilty whilst the children are entirely innocent and have experienced very little of life. No man is so strong that he can fend off a powerful explosive blast. If they were going into hand-to-hand combat with women and children, that would be cowardice.

I think it is quite irrelevent that they have targetted children. It is hardly surprising. Their aim is to free their country from Russian occupation, which to them, is much more important that the lives of 300 people. I think the argument should be whether it ir right to kill people at all to achieve certain aims rather than who you can kill.

[Kez]

or rather who should you be killing if you choose to kill, fellow workers or the class enemy?

this is why their fight is doomed to failure.

[Hate Is Art]

They seem to be stepping up activities a lot, they denoated explosives on two planes recently. It will never achieve freedom, terrorism never does. ETA have been trying to achieve freedom for the Basque since Franco took over and haven't got anywhere. you need to fight a war or try Gandhi's methods.

Anyone who kills children must be getting very desperate, they have my pity, not my support.

[redtrigger]

"It will never achieve freedom, terrorism never does. ETA have been trying to achieve freedom for the Basque since Franco took over and haven't got anywhere. you need to fight a war or try Gandhi's methods." The Arcadian Dream

You could not be more right. Hate and terrorism perpetuate only hate and terrorism. Civil disobedience and if needed revolution cause change, you when neither hearts or minds with terrorism. The Machiavellian way is not the way the world works. "Men follows courage not titles" -Mel Gibson, Braveheart

On a slightly different note if this happened during the Cold War the U.S. would be backing the Chechens. Funny how superficial U.S. support is.

[Lefty]

It's when I read stories like these that I thank God that I was born white and upper middle class in mid-America.

[KrazyRabidSheep]

War makes me sick.

Killing people makes me sick.

Killing babies that had no chance to harm anybody makes me sick.

I've heard it said that one man's terrorist is another man's freedom fighter.

Sometimes this is true

But in this case, it is not. . .if somebody hurts me or my family, I hurt them, not an infant

[Fidelbrand]

Originally posted by [email protected] 4 2004, 01:13 PM
It's when I read stories like these that I thank God that I was born white and upper middle class in mid-America.
:blink: ....

[Guerrilla22]

I don't think you understand the situation in Chechnya.

<_< Oh really? I am well aware of what has been transpiring in Chechenya. I meant that the situation at the school would end up in a blood bath, which it did. Save your facts and figures for someone who will be impressed by it.

[socialistfuture]

i see what is being done Chechnya as comparable to Palestine, Ireland and Tibet. It is a resource rich area so Russia wants control of it. It is occupied with troops, the people are mainly muslim - so Russia plays up the terrorist rhetoric.

it is sad they have to to kidnapping and similar acts to get world attention to their plight. Another comparable situation may be the chiapas in Mexico - surrounded by troops. I do not trust Putin or like his ways - he needs at the very minimum to grant some autonomy - as Spain should to to Basque instead of outlawing and criminalizing the inhabitants.

Freedom to all minorities&#33; death to the occupations of the world&#33;

[apathy maybe]

Chechnya for those of you who don&#39;t know is one of the regions of the former USSR that declared independence when the USSR broke up. The main reason the Russians didn&#39;t want it to be independent is a whopping great oil pipe line across it. Now, however, there is a pipe line bypassing Chechnya all together. I don&#39;t know why the Russians just don&#39;t let the Chechnya be independent, perhaps it is a nationalist thing?

(some of these links may have old information.)

http://home.swipnet.se/~w-47763/chechnya.jpg
http://cia.gov/cia/publications/factbook/geos/rs.html
http://www.b-info.com/tools/miva/newsview....text/feb11b.rfe (http://www.b-info.com/tools/miva/newsview.mv?url=news/2000-02/text/feb11b.rfe)
http://www.pbs.org/newshour/forum/march03/chechnya3.html

[Lacrimi de Chiciură]

Don&#39;t kill innocent kids&#33;

[insurgency03]

9 dont get it.... why do resistance groups like the chechens associate themselves with sick fucks like that, its just another excuse for the Russian gov to tighten its grip on the people of Cechneya who r living out of their damn basements becuz nothing is left of their cities.

[socialistfuture]

when the system does not give u a legal way to become independent what other choice do u have? wait and die like tibet?

[duk]

maybe russia isnt a comunist country but we cant hate this country&#33; widout russia comunism is nothing&#33; im against any attack on russia&#33; more terror attacks on russia is goin 2 make usa and russia allies and russia will stop defendin arabs and muslim rights &#33;

[seen_che]

Im having a candle light in my window now for the victims.....thats all I can do...

[MiniOswald]

apathy your partly right in the nationalist thing over why the russians wont let it go. Its claimed to be because historically it is believed to be part of russia and sowhen the USSR broke up it should not be let go. Now Putin cant let it go without appearing weak, its one of his largest fears, he aspires to some form of great military leader. He probably knows he cant stop the chechans commiting terrorist acts, but as long as he can convince the russian people that what he does is right, as he has to the west by proclaiming that the terrorists &#39;could have links to al queda, i think that statement was made on TASS). All he wants to do is keep power.

[h&s]

I think Putin actually wants stuff like this to carry on happening. He&#39;s always going on about Chechnya being part of the war on terror, so just like Bush, he is using it to consolidate power.

Its claimed to be because historically it is believed to be part of russia and sowhen the USSR broke up it should not be let go.
According to Russian nationalists, but it was an individual country before the Imerial Russian empire invaded it a couple of hundred years back.

[Guerrilla22]

I don&#39;t think the Russian government would have cared if Chechenya broke away, if it weren&#39;t for the area&#39;s oil resources. Anyway, I think at this point the Russian government should ask itself whether or not keeping control of Chechenya is really worth all the trouble.

[YKTMX]

I just got news that 5000 kids in Somalia died today because they didn&#39;t have enough to eat.

I&#39;m putting a candle in my window.

[socialistfuture]

maybe russia isnt a comunist country but we cant hate this country&#33; widout russia comunism is nothing&#33; im against any attack on russia&#33; more terror attacks on russia is goin 2 make usa and russia allies and russia will stop defendin arabs and muslim rights &#33;

maybe you don&#39;t understand - the Chechnyans are muslim by faith - so Russia is not defending their rights - it is taking them away. Chechnya is not independant and the people are stripped of their rights - they want independance - Putin is giving them nothing - and trying to look hard to get along with Bush - so people won&#39;t look into the problems with how he runs the country.

for communism to work in russia the people need to want it - it cant be a ruling party/red tsar it must be democratic.

[Rex_20XD6]

Originally posted by The wise old [email protected] 4 2004, 10:12 PM
Don&#39;t kill innocent kids&#33;
I think the only reason they targeted a school is so that the Russian military wouldn’t retaliate. But, clearly that didn’t work for the Russian&#39;s and over 300 hostages are dead and 400 wounded.

[Lefty]

I meant that I&#39;m glad that I&#39;ll never have to deal with terrorists storming my school and killing me and such. Because such things generally don&#39;t happen to Iowan high schools.

[kami888]

Just can you all please stop using the word &#39;occupation&#39; for Chechnya? You all seem to ignore the fact that chechnya was and is part of Russia.

Russia has lost enough territory already. Poland and Finland 1918, then all of the 14 republics of the USSR in 1991. Sorry, but we are not going lose any more. Unlike most of the westerners, most Russians simply don&#39;t care about human lives - be it men/women/children or anyone else. So we killed a lot and we will kil a lot, as this is the only possible response to the terrorist attacks.

As to the reason why checnya particularly is so important for Russia is because government is afraid that Russia is simply going to collapse. There are much more republics than 1 who want to be independant and if the independance is given to one, the chain reaction will begin.


but it was an individual country before the Imerial Russian empire invaded it a couple of hundred years back.

So are we going to roll the history back 1500 years back? Maybe then we should give america back for the Amerindians, give Korea to China, Spain to Muslims.
Also a good idea would be to turn Germany into the Holy Roman Empire. Besides, if you want to know, chechnya was never independent. It was always part of one or some empire.


the Chechnyans are muslim by faith
SO??? Why should religion define the country belongings to one or some other side? Can&#39;t a larger country have more than one state religion? Besides, the muslims also invaded these places a long time ago, so if we are trying to roll the history back why not to cancel Islam in these countries?

I hate when people stop seeing the difference between nation and religion. That is the reason I hate Israel for. Countries should be nation states; not religion states.

[encore]

Originally posted by The Arcadian [email protected] 3 2004, 09:47 PM
They seem to be stepping up activities a lot, they denoated explosives on two planes recently. It will never achieve freedom, terrorism never does. ETA have been trying to achieve freedom for the Basque since Franco took over and haven&#39;t got anywhere. you need to fight a war or try Gandhi&#39;s methods.

Anyone who kills children must be getting very desperate, they have my pity, not my support.
So, if you were forced to watch your family systematically executed in front of your eyes, and you whitnessed the rape of thousands of your countrymen, your land, your welfare, and your life, you&#39;re telling me that you wouldn&#39;t fight back?

Should we pity them? Fuck no. Ever since WW1 Civilians have been the main target or wars. Just look at Hiroshima in WW2. Was is an act of terrorism? Yes. Did it kill many women and children? You&#39;re fucking right it did. Did it stop a war? It sure as hell did.

This incedent is the same thing but on a SMALLER scale. So fuck you and youre fucking pity. Those Chechnyans don&#39;t want your pity. They want their country back.

[Non-Sectarian Bastard!]

Originally posted by [email protected] 3 2004, 06:10 PM
Men are mostly bigger and stronger than women and children and can therefore defend themselves more easily. Hurting and killing people weaker than you is known as cowardice.
That was so in ancient times. When there were spears, swords and as a man you stood a good chance in defending yourself. Now there are assault-rifles against which you stand no chance. That&#39;s why I don&#39;t understand it. We are all even vunerable to assault weapons.

[apathy maybe]

kami888 I don&#39;t understand why you care if Russia collapses or not.
It won&#39;t affect you if a lot of small republics along Russia&#39;s southern edge become independent, and even if they did, Russia would probabbly still be the biggest (area) country in the world.

[888Kami]

kami888 I don&#39;t understand why you care if Russia collapses or not.
well, you should know that there is such thing called nationalism. What country do you live in? Now imagine that is is surrounded by all the enemies, plus inside there ere also enemies and the country is about to die. Maybe you will feel something.


It won&#39;t affect you if a lot of small republics along Russia&#39;s southern edge become independent, and even if they did, Russia would probabbly still be the biggest (area) country in the world.
Yeah? USSR was also teh biggest country in the world. 1/6 of the world land territory belonged to USSR. Now Russia lost some 14 republics which were not really rich, and is still the biggest country in the world. But compare the economy, technology progress speed, literacy level vector, military strength, and all of the other features of USSR to the present day Russia. See the difference?
It should be quite obvious, if the republics were not affecting the country anyhow, then they whould have been given independance a long time ago.

[h&s]

Why do you find these things important? (apart from literacy)
You are saying this from a purely Russian perspective - you want Russia to be great again, at the cost of these other countries.

well, you should know that there is such thing called nationalism.
So are you admitting to being a nationalist? Communism / leftism is not compatible with nationalism. Nationalism concerns the needs of just one country. This just leads to a bigger state and racism. Leftism concerns the inerests of everyone in the world.

[Alaniara]

Kind of an old topic - but it just infuriates me to see that the world media and people kept on seeing this incident as an attack directly made on Russia.

No, it wasn&#39;t. It was in Beslan, a city in the autonomous Republic of North Ossetia, whose people are not Russian. I think this should be double underlined. And this makes the whole thing more tragic.

The Ossetians are an ethnic minority inside the Russian Federation, just like the Chechens. In fact, geographically, they are neighbors. This is why the world media shouldn&#39;t have approached this as if it had happened in Moscow or St Petersburg. Ossetians are not Russians. Neither ethnically nor historically. Now, this really is tragic&#33;

For more information on Ossetia & Ossetians:

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/North_Ossetia-Alania
http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/History_of_North_Ossetia-Alania