Chavez Says Economy to Move Away From Capitalism

[Xvall]

Venezuela's Chavez Says Economy to Move Away From Capitalism
Aug. 27 (Bloomberg) -- Venezuela President Hugo Chavez said the country's economy must move away from capitalism and large land holdings must be eliminated.

``I call on private businessmen to work together with us to build the new economy, transforming the capitalist economic model into a social, humanist and equality economy,'' Chavez said during a televised speech in Caracas. ``The time has come to accelerate the transformation. The revolution has just begun.''

http://quote.bloomberg.com/apps/news?pid=1...id=aSLXYlQZUnC8 (http://quote.bloomberg.com/apps/news?pid=10000086&sid=aSLXYlQZUnC8)

1337 news, everyone.

[Exploited Class]

Not to belittle your post, but that was a pretty short article and I don't trust bloomberg all that much.

If it is true, I can post the headline that will be occuring a lot.

"Another assasination attempt on Chavez..."

"Chavez escapes another close call"

I love the news, but man I hope all of his calls to Fidel have been, "so how did you pull off not getting killed by the US's CIA?"

The rich land owners of that country "should love it or leave it" as far as the changes are concerned.

[Hampton]

More on it:


CARACAS, Aug. 29 (Xinhuanet) -- Venezuelan President Hugo Chavez pledged Sunday to enforce an agriculture law that allows the government to tax and expropriate idle land and give it to poor peasants.

"In this new stage of the revolution, I demand strict application of the constitution and the land law... We are going after idle land and are going to put it to work," Chavez said on his weekly Sunday television program.

Chavez, who won a recall referendum on Aug. 15, ordered his military commanders to investigate large rural estates and report idle land not in productive use.

Yummy. (http://news.xinhuanet.com/english/2004-08/30/content_1925791.htm)

[Xvall]

It's legitamine. Just a little vague. At the time the article was written, little information was presentable.

[Exploited Class]

According to a 1998 census, 60 percent of Venezuela's farmland,or nearly 179,200 square kilometers, was owned by less than 1 percent of the population. The survey said 90 percent of farmland given to peasants in a 1960 reform program reverted to large landholders.

The opposition, which still contests the results of the recall,says that Chavez is increasingly authoritarian and is dividing the country along class lines.

This is great coming from capitalist.

They are attacking Chavex for dividing a country along class lines, when in fact class is a division of a country in itself and capitalism helps create class riffs.

So basically they are upset like this, "You are using the divide we created in your country to get ahead. Please stop working for the poor people, our capitalist's by product, and focus all your attention on THE OTHER DIVIDE."

Because they are not so upset that he is "dividing the country" since it is already divided. They are just upset that he isn't paying attention and helping their division.

[percept¡on]

http://www.infoshop.org/inews/stories.php?...4/08/28/2062778 (http://www.infoshop.org/inews/stories.php?story=04/08/28/2062778)

<_<

[Nyder]

That&#39;s awesome&#33; Now we have another third world country which will continue to stay poor&#33;

[The New Yorker]

Thats interesting i cant wait to see how it works out. Hope the nations of the world fuck off and let them be.

[socialistfuture]

Nyder - ever considered maybe its cause first world nations steal the wealth of the third world ones?

a good early example of looting was the conquistdors enteringing south america.
these colonial legecies have not eneded. Chavez has indian blood and is standing up for the indigenous peoples in Bolivia and they love him for it - regardless of what the Bush kindom says.

The New Yorker - good to see u r opening up.

[Fidelbrand]

chavez - Un hombre fuerte con amor&#33;

[Louis Pio]

That&#39;s awesome&#33; Now we have another third world country which will continue to stay poor&#33;


What you mean is: ohh now the small rich white elite won&#39;t get all the benefits, instead they are actually given to those who need them. That&#39;s a disgrace&#33; The poor should stay poor.

That was what you meant right?

[Fidelbrand]

Originally posted by [email protected] 3 2004, 11:14 AM
That&#39;s awesome&#33; Now we have another third world country which will continue to stay poor&#33;
what a mentality. :P

Poor in capitalist sense, rich in spiritual sense.
Its future trading of oil may mould a more egalitarian society, how do you call that poor, especially in terms of income disparties?

[Dr. Rosenpenis]

If he wasn&#39;t trying so hard to appease the bourgeoisie, he would do something a lot more radical, like instate a dictatorship of the proletariat in violent opposition to the ruling class and all of its components, create local workers&#39; committees and a centralized vanguard communist party, and instate a complete ban on open religious meetings, the free market, and private property.

Chavez, however, is a useless reformist.

[The New Yorker]

Is it so hard to believe that a small nation could succeed in there attempts?

Think about it honestly,

A small country with far less technology then many other nations. Attempts something a little off the beaten path. All of a sudden every one assumes, they will automatically fail. This could be interesting i hope that other countries will stay out of their way and let them do what they want. Different governments for different cultures.

[Dr. Rosenpenis]

Originally posted by The New [email protected] 3 2004, 08:01 PM
Is it so hard to believe that a small nation could succeed in there attempts?
Ask yourself what excatly they&#39;re attempting. Socialism? Isn&#39;t gonna work. Not with Chavez&#39;s reformist methods.

[Trump_$$$]

Originally posted by [email protected] 3 2004, 10:10 AM

What you mean is: ohh now the small rich white elite won&#39;t get all the benefits, instead they are actually given to those who need them. That&#39;s a disgrace&#33; The poor should stay poor.

That was what you meant right?
If that is what he wanted to say he would have. What he is saying is obvious. They will stay poor, like all socialist like countries, if they decide to change.

You must have trouble with reality. There is this little commie utopia that lives in the mind of social misfits like yourself and there is reality.

[Dr. Rosenpenis]

There is this little commie utopia that lives in the mind of social misfits like yourself and there is reality.

Single worst capitalist argument ever.

And how exactly is Cuba poor, compared to how they were before, or compared to any other Latin American country. And how was the Soviet Union poor compared to how they were before? And China, even, improved greatly after the revolution. Even the so-called-&#39;socialist&#39; countries, like North Korea, Vietnam, and China improved immensely after their revolutions. They were nothing before socialism. They were 100% agrarian and ruled by theocratic monarchies. The lack of productive growth argument has absolutely no merit whatsoever. Eat shit and come up with a better argument, you confused, narrow-minded ****. Welcome to Che-lives.

[Trump_$$$]

Originally posted by [email protected] 4 2004, 02:49 AM

Single worst capitalist argument ever.

And how exactly is Cuba poor, compared to how they were before, or compared to any other Latin American country. And how was the Soviet Union poor compared to how they were before? And China, even, improved greatly after the revolution. Even the so-called-&#39;socialist&#39; countries, like North Korea, Vietnam, and China improved immensely after their revolutions. They were nothing before socialism. They were 100% agrarian and ruled by theocratic monarchies. The lack of productive growth argument has absolutely no merit whatsoever. Eat shit and come up with a better argument, you confused, narrow-minded ****. Welcome to Che-lives.
Cuba is poor in many ways. Just because they get shitty medical care and a little food each day you think they are rich? I would love to see you live like they do you ungrateful hypocrit.

[Dr. Rosenpenis]

Cuba is poor in many ways. Just because they get shitty medical care and a little food each day you think they are rich?

Shitty medical care?
The infant mortality rate in Cuba is lower than that of the United States. And enormously lower than that of any other Latin American nation. The average daily caloric consumption per capita in Cuba is also higher than even that of the wealthiest Latin American nations, such as Brazil and Argentina.

In Cuba people also don&#39;t die of starvation and lack of medical attention, which is something that occurs on an astronomical rate in the third world.

[Trump_$$$]

Originally posted by [email protected] 4 2004, 03:16 AM

Shitty medical care?
The infant mortality rate in Cuba is lower than that of the United States. And enormously lower than that of any other Latin American nation. The average daily caloric consumption per capita in Cuba is also higher than even that of the wealthiest Latin American nations, such as Brazil and Argentina.

In Cuba people also don&#39;t die of starvation and lack of medical attention, which is something that occurs on an astronomical rate in the third world.
Like I said. I would love to see you live there. You talk down to people like myself while typing on a computer that cost more than most Cubans make in a year.

[ÑóẊîöʼn]

Like I said. I would love to see you live there.
I would love to live there.


You talk down to people

Like what you&#39;re doing to us.

Are you here to debate or just be a pain in the arse? I think the latter.

[Dr. Rosenpenis]

What a crap argument&#33;

All Cubans that need a computer, have access to one.
Besides, how does that in anyway prove that Cuba is worst off than the rest of Latin America. I&#39;m sure than most Mexicans won&#39;t be able to afford a computer in their lifetimes. But that&#39;s not why capitalism doesn&#39;t work.

[ÑóẊîöʼn]

What a crap argument&#33;

I believe Mr Trump is not here for argument. I feel that he is a glutton for punishment, specifically getting flamed then getting banned.

[redstar2000]

President Chavez’ policy has always followed a careful balancing act between rejecting vassalage to the US and local oligarchic rentiers on the one hand and trying to harness a coalition of foreign and national investors, urban and rural poor to a program of welfare capitalism. He is closer to Franklin Roosevelt’s New Deal than Castro’s socialist revolution.

Full text...

Venezuela&#39;s President Chavez Frias and the referendum: myths and realities by James Petras (http://www.vheadline.com/readnews.asp?id=22654)

How is it that a bourgeois sociologist can have a clearer view of the material reality in Venezuela than many so-called "Marxists"? :o

:redstar2000:

The Redstar2000 Papers (http://www.redstar2000papers.fightcapitalism.net)
A site about communist ideas

[Dr. Rosenpenis]

Who exactly are these so-called Marxists who are misjudging the situation in Venezuela? And you don&#39;t actually agree with this dude, do you, redstar?



Conclusion
The massive popular victory of the ‘No’ vote in the Venezuelan referendum gave hope and inspiration to hundreds of millions in Latin America and elsewhere, that US-backed oligarchies can be defeated at the ballot box.

Lie.
No, they can&#39;t.

[redstar2000]

Who exactly are these so-called Marxists who are misjudging the situation in Venezuela?

See this thread...

http://www.che-lives.com/forum/index.php?s...opic=28155&st=0 (http://www.che-lives.com/forum/index.php?showtopic=28155&st=0)


And you don&#39;t actually agree with this dude, do you, redstar?

Not necessarily in every particular...but in general, yeah, I think his analysis is pretty good -- certainly superior to the "revolutionary fantasy" set forward in the linked thread.


Conclusion

The massive popular victory of the ‘No’ vote in the Venezuelan referendum gave hope and inspiration to hundreds of millions in Latin America and elsewhere, that US-backed oligarchies can be defeated at the ballot box.

I agree that&#39;s certainly an odd "conclusion" and one that actually doesn&#39;t follow logically from the rest of the article -- maybe someone else "leaned" on him to stick that in (academia has its own corruptions).

Historically, there have been "windows of opportunity" for bourgeois left-reformists to win at the polls -- in fact, the list of those "winners" is a fairly long one.

The countries of Latin America appear to be entering such a period now -- the advanced capitalist countries passed beyond it long ago.

The hard-nosed capitalists at Texaco (and other corporations) see through populist rhetoric much more clearly than a lot of so-called "Marxists". If they can "put together a good deal" to exploit Venezuela&#39;s oil and natural gas reserves, who cares about the regime&#39;s social welfare system except a bunch of neo-con ideologues in Washington?

The old oligarchies in Latin America are fading, and new, more vigorous oligarchies are rising to take their place. They will not be as nakedly servile to the U.S. as the old oligarchies were...but they will nevertheless serve capital.

As communists, we have a duty to tell the truth about those guys...even when it&#39;s "unpopular" to do that.

:redstar2000:

The Redstar2000 Papers (http://www.redstar2000papers.fightcapitalism.net)
A site about communist ideas

[Dr. Rosenpenis]

I can agree with the general idea of your post, and it&#39;s certainly dialectical to say that the current oligarchy will eventually be replaced by another, before these countries reach a more advanced stage of capitalism which would yield to proletarian rebellion. But how exactly are guys like Chavez doing anything to bring this new oligarchy into power? Is he corrupt? What if he wasn&#39;t corrupt? I&#39;m not saying we should be waiting on a non-corrupt reformist fella to win at the polls, I just want to understand why you&#39;d say that he&#39;s somehow catering to the new power structure.

And I&#39;m also by no means deffending Chavez.

[redstar2000]

But how exactly are guys like Chavez doing anything to bring this new oligarchy into power?

It&#39;s probably not "conscious" on Chavez&#39;s part. But if you have a class society and you weaken important parts of the old ruling class, you create an "ecological opening"...the "small fish" see a chance to become "big fish" by jumping on Chavez&#39;s bandwagon.

I have no idea if Chavez is personally corrupt or not...nor do I think it would make much difference either way. But I&#39;m certain that many of his most important "lieutenants" are indeed corrupt...and very much open to offers from "new oligarchs" or oligarch-wannabes. Some of them may even aspire to becoming "new oligarchs" themselves. (Redstar&#39;s "law" -- all class societies are riddled with corruption.)

And why shouldn&#39;t they? In the "old Venezuela", everything depended on your business connections (or lack of same) with the U.S. Now, the world has "opened up" and an ambitious new businessman can trade with Europe, China, Australia, Russia, etc. and there ain&#39;t much the U.S. can do about it...at least at the moment.

There&#39;s even a hint of a Latin American "EU" that would be able to trade with the U.S. "as an equal" (sort of).

Lots of glittery promise there...and little in the way of discouragement.

The American imperialists have seen what happens when they try to occupy a country where the previous regime was, shall we say, distinctly unpopular. Invading Venezuela would be an absolute nightmare...and probably spark Castroist-Maoist uprisings throughout the continent.

I don&#39;t think they&#39;re stupid enough to try that...yet.


I just want to understand why you&#39;d say that he&#39;s somehow catering to the new power structure.

I don&#39;t think he could do anything else. He&#39;s not, after all, any kind of Marxist or socialist. He certainly has no intention of granting substantive power to the workers or the peasants...so who else is left?

His logical and perhaps inevitable strategy is to "win over" the most rational and forward-looking of the old oligarchy to an alliance with his own new oligarchy and then thumb his nose at his opposition. "Go to Miami," he&#39;ll tell them, "we don&#39;t need you here any longer."

He&#39;ll be right.

:redstar2000:

The Redstar2000 Papers (http://www.redstar2000papers.fightcapitalism.net)
A site about communist ideas

[Nyder]

Economy - overview:
Venezuela continues to be highly dependent on the petroleum sector, which accounts for roughly one-third of GDP, around 80% of export earnings, and more than half of government operating revenues. Despite higher oil prices at the end of 2002 and into 2003, domestic political instability, culminating in a disastrous two-month national oil strike from December 2002 to February 2003, temporarily halted economic activity. The economy remained in depression in 2003, declining by 9.2% after an 8.9% fall in 2002. In late 2003, President CHAVEZ committed himself to &#036;1 billion in new social programs, money the government does not have.

http://www.cia.gov/cia/publications/factbo...e.html_________ (http://www.cia.gov/cia/publications/factbook/geos/ve.html_________)

[Dr. Rosenpenis]

I don&#39;t think he could do anything else. He&#39;s not, after all, any kind of Marxist or socialist. He certainly has no intention of granting substantive power to the workers or the peasants...so who else is left?

Well, he could have been catering to the old power structure, because like you said, he&#39;s ceratinly no socialist. But I see what you&#39;re saying. Sounds reasonable enough...

[Louis Pio]

I have no idea if Chavez is personally corrupt or not...nor do I think it would make much difference either way. But I&#39;m certain that many of his most important "lieutenants" are indeed corrupt...and very much open to offers from "new oligarchs" or oligarch-wannabes. Some of them may even aspire to becoming "new oligarchs" themselves. (Redstar&#39;s "law" -- all class societies are riddled with corruption.)


Yes indeed they are, but that don&#39;t support your defeatism anyway.
What it will depend on is the big majority of workers and peasants not what some old guy thinks. I know you don&#39;t think socialism is possible even in a developed country like Venezuela. However the process that has been started has lead workers etc to draw more and more revolutionary conclusions. And this is exactly the whole crux because that is a good starting point for a socialist revolution. But considering you have reduced marxism to a dead psudo science I know you won&#39;t agree.

[redstar2000]

In late 2003, President CHAVEZ committed himself to &#036;1 billion in new social programs, money the government does not have.

It&#39;s always nice to enliven a serious discussion with a bit of humor from the CIA. :lol:

With current oil prices running between &#036;40-&#036;50/barrel, Venezuela has money to spare.

Thanks as always, Nyder. :D

:redstar2000:

The Redstar2000 Papers (http://www.redstar2000papers.fightcapitalism.net)
A site about communist ideas

[redstar2000]

What it will depend on is the big majority of workers and peasants not what some old guy thinks...However the process that has been started has led workers etc., to draw more and more revolutionary conclusions. And this is exactly the whole crux because that is a good starting point for a socialist revolution.

What you fail to grasp, Teis, is that I would love to be proven wrong on this and many similar issues...by actual events.

Nothing would make this "old guy" happier than a genuine and deeply-rooted proletarian revolution in Venezuela.

I just don&#39;t think, based on the evidence, that "it&#39;s in the cards"...at least for many decades.

Marxism is not a "feel good" paradigm; you&#39;ve got to be rational and clear-headed and see what&#39;s really happening in particular situations.

Those who entrust their hopes to "left" bourgeois reformists are always disappointed.

:redstar2000:

The Redstar2000 Papers (http://www.redstar2000papers.fightcapitalism.net)
A site about communist ideas

[socialistfuture]

this is staright from inymedia:

Venezuela, Texaco and Microsoft
Despite all the efforts from the popular movements to deepen the Bolivarian Revolution of Venezuela, the government, with the approval of president Hugo Chavés Frias, made 2 partnership with the multinational companies Chevron-Texaco and Microsoft (more contracts with Repsol and other corporations have also been signed) . Both agreements were signed before the referedum took place, but with the focus on the electoral process, criticism from the popular movements was minimal.

After the victory in the referendum, the popular movements are now trying to accelerate the process they call "Revolution within the Revolution", precisely to fight against deals like these and the abuses of the power-hungry "bolivarian" political parties. The balance of forces is still very tight in Venezuela, and in many ways Chavez is trapped between the revolutionary currents and the neoliberal elements within the government that could bring the country down if they join forces with the counter-revolution. Venezuelan popular movements must engage in revolutionary offensive; the processes of joint popular rebellion in the continent must accelerate; and international support for the autonomous movements of the Bolivarian Revolution must grow, because Microsoft, Texaco and the global bourgeoisie have no real problem in negotiating with the "revolutionary bureaucracy" of Venezuela.


he is in a difficult position - be revolutionary enough to have the peoples support without angering them enough to get an armed rebellion or a full scale US intervention. i really hope they do suceed in their bolivarian revolution.

[Nyder]

Originally posted by [email protected] 7 2004, 04:07 AM

It&#39;s always nice to enliven a serious discussion with a bit of humor from the CIA. :lol:

With current oil prices running between &#036;40-&#036;50/barrel, Venezuela has money to spare.

Thanks as always, Nyder. :D

:redstar2000:

The Redstar2000 Papers (http://www.redstar2000papers.fightcapitalism.net)
A site about communist ideas
Don&#39;t you know anything about economics? When you raise the price of something, you decrease its demand.

I suppose you think businesses could make more money by raising all their prices 200%. :rolleyes:

[redstar2000]

Don&#39;t you know anything about economics? When you raise the price of something, you decrease its demand.

:lol: :lol: :lol:

Only in your Bourgeois Economics 101 class. In the real world, demand for some commodities is "sticky"...you can (and they do) raise prices quite a bit without any measurable effect on demand.

Particularly if "demand" is initially in the hands of a few buyers who will later re-sell the commodity. The reason why oil prices have been at record levels lately is that both the U.S. and Chinese governments are purchasing vast quantities for their respective "strategic oil reserves"...the level of "demand" has been artificially inflated.

In America&#39;s case, it&#39;s a nice boost in profits for Bush&#39;s oil buddies..."crony capitalism" at its best.

But, at least for the time being, it will also serve to more than subsidize Chavez&#39;s welfare programs...that "well-respected" source of "reliable" information, the CIA, not withstanding. :lol:

:redstar2000:

The Redstar2000 Papers (http://www.redstar2000papers.fightcapitalism.net)
A site about communist ideas

[Louis Pio]

What you fail to grasp, Teis, is that I would love to be proven wrong on this and many similar issues...by actual events.

Nothing would make this "old guy" happier than a genuine and deeply-rooted proletarian revolution in Venezuela.

I just don&#39;t think, based on the evidence, that "it&#39;s in the cards"...at least for many decades.

Marxism is not a "feel good" paradigm; you&#39;ve got to be rational and clear-headed and see what&#39;s really happening in particular situations.

Those who entrust their hopes to "left" bourgeois reformists are always disappointed.



The thing is that in my oppinion you haven&#39;t analysed anything. You just fit Venezuela into some scheme you have.
1. populist leftist movement - check
2. no overthrow of the state - check
etc
equals: no possibility for socialism - check.
That&#39;s the way you see things.

That&#39;s just a very rigid way to see things.
Chavez is only in power because of the workers and poor. Untill now the working class hasn&#39;t really played a independent role. After the referendum (which the rank and file was against being held) there is a feeling among the workers of wanting better conditions, pay etc now. And no doubt the money are there, they are just still in the hands of the old parasite class that used to run Venezuela and made the coup. So the policy of balancing between the classes will be put to a stop one way or another. You can&#39;t balance between them for long. Either they make a deal with the capitalists and loose it&#39;s backing or they go against the capitalists and oligarchy. Key sectors of the Venezuelan working class is very advanced, especially in the important oil sector. They won&#39;t just stand by if the coupmakers get&#39;s their way while they get nothing. That would lead to a breakup of the bolivarian movement along class lines. A split already starting with the removal of some of the reformists in the top of the movement. Inside the tradeunion and different groups those discussions are ongoing, what way to keep the advances and how to move on and boot out these people once and for all. Just because you have a leftist government in charge doesn&#39;t mean the process that put them there is stopped. People learn from their experiences and in Venezuela that is happening quite faster than in most other countries. The outcome is certainly not decided yet.

[redstar2000]

Until now the working class hasn&#39;t really played an independent role.

There&#39;s your key factor in this whole question.

Until that happens, it simply makes no sense in realistic terms to speak of "socialism" in Venezuela.

It might make people "feel good" to contemplate the idea of proletarian revolution in Venezuela...but until there is solid evidence of this, I remain highly skeptical.

One advantage of being an "old guy" (there ain&#39;t all that many) is that I&#39;ve lived long enough to see a whole parade of populist reformists come and go...leaving blasted hopes, disillusionment, and cynicism in their wake.

That sort of thing may be "inevitable" in the present period...I don&#39;t know.

But I know damn well that it&#39;s not the job of communists to encourage it.

When people start exclaiming "Moses has finally arrived", we communists should be the first to point out the fakery.

That may make us "unpopular" in the short run...but over the decades of consistent practice, the working class will learn who can be counted on to tell the truth no matter what.

Once acquired, that is a strength that our class enemies can never match.

:redstar2000:

The Redstar2000 Papers (http://www.redstar2000papers.fightcapitalism.net)
A site about communist ideas

[fuerzasocialista]

If Venezuela is to become Marxist in nature and adopt Socialist views, it will take a series of steps in increasing reforms to achieve that. Problem is that you have a elite class cooperating with Uncle Shmuck waiting to take you out at any given time. I don&#39;t think Venezuela will move totally to the left but in the short run perhaps Chavez&#39; apparent success can start a ripple effect. I say short term because there is no guarantee as to how long he will stay in office. Once removed, either by popular vote(well supposed popular vote) or by force, his social reforms will become null and void and the poor will once again have to eat the shit from an oppressive right winged government that feels that oil money should be spent on the rich and that the bones(left overs) should be thrown to the masses every once in a while.

[Commie Girl]

Source (http://www.americas.org/item_15475)

Venezuela: A New Revolution in Latin America
By Ernesto Cardenal

I am told that Neruda once gave a poetry lecture in the city of Valencia, Venezuela, and only 30 people showed up. I have just participated in a World Poetry Festival here, which included poets from five continents. The auditorium not only filled up, but an equal number of people remained outside and didn’t want to leave. As a result, we had to repeat the ceremony for all those who didn’t make it inside the first time. At the Teresa Carreño Theater in Caracas, which seats 2,500 spectators, a huge screen had to be set up outside the theater during this same festival, because of the great number of people who hadn’t managed to get a seat inside. Several poets told me that this passion for poetry is not a Venezuelan tradition but rather a product of the revolution.

I was surprised in Venezuela to hear everyone speaking of the “process,” and some, more explicitly, of the “revolution.” In truth it’s a revolution in process. This is not known outside of Venezuela, where only the discontent of the opposition is promoted.

Outside Venezuela, it is little known that the country is about to complete a literacy campaign, and that in two months illiteracy will be nonexistent. Education is now offered in indigenous languages, of which there are 38, and there are also publications in these languages. They have become Venezuela’s official languages, alongside Spanish. There are three indigenous members of the National Assembly, and up until recently an indigenous woman was Minister of the Environment. The Ministry of Education, Culture and Sports is black. The vice minister of Culture, who organized this World Poetry Festival, told me that they had published 25 million copies of various titles to be given free to readers all over the country. He also told me they were creating a nationwide chain of bookstores, a book distribution company, and a state-owned publishing house. The publisher will specialize in political books, because the people demand revolutionary texts but find only rightwing books on the shelves. (A sample of how the rightwing operates: on the opening day of our Poetry Festival the daily newspaper El Nacional published not a single line about it.)

The educational system now incorporates millions of Venezuelans who were once excluded from it. Education starts with children at one year of age. Children who were unable to pay registration fees before may now go to the free Bolivarian schools. They provide children with a comprehensive education, including culture and sport, and also offer lunch and snacks. They are no longer removed from the community, but have become centers for communal activities. The Bolivarian University, also free, serves those students unable to afford university studies. There is also a large delegation of carefully selected students in Cuba. They are prohibited from political party membership and are being trained to perform governmental tasks in the future. Another thing I learned in Venezuela was that President Chávez has renounced his salary, which is being used to pay student scholarships.

In the city of Mérida a young poet told me that the country’s political demonstrations were also educational. He himself—an intellectual—learned from them because they were real cultural events, with poetry, music, songs and dancing.

The revolution is taking place in every area of social life. In neighborhoods, small villages and rural districts, they are creating community centers with free internet access for all, with libraries and areas for dance and theater. They are building stadiums and sports complexes, thousands of homes, and large blocks of low-rent apartments. They are issuing land titles, and supplying agricultural machinery, credit and technical support. Mission Barrio Adentro provides health services to people who didn’t have them before, including the indigenous tribes. Most of the doctors are Cuban because few Venezuelan doctors have gone there. There is also a Cuban plane that transfers patients to and from Cuba every week.

Some 40,000 soldiers serve in a campaign to promote public health. Others open roadways, build housing, organize cooperatives or help indigenous people with their crops. The poor travel in army planes and helicopters with their chickens, and the navy responds to the needs of fishing cooperatives. What is most important is the collaboration between civilians and soldiers, united in a single revolution.

The participation of the military in the revolution is enormous. A few days before I arrived three generals had asked for a leave of absence so that they could be gubernatorial candidates, because they preferred leading the masses to a career in arms.

This is not a revolution which President Chávez has just now improvised. In a 15-hour interview with Marta Harnecker, which has been made into a book, he recounts that this revolution has come to him and his friends gradually. The process began when he entered the army, although he says his first dream was to become a baseball player. He comes from a small Venezuelan village where, as a barefoot boy, he sold sweets on the street. He recounts that since the time he entered the military academy, at seventeen, he read everything he could get his hands on. During his studies in political he was inspired by Mao, and continues to be inspired today. From Mao’s statement that “a nation’s people are to the army what water is to a fish” arose Chavez’s conviction that the people and the army should be united. He admired the Panama of Torrijos, and Velazco Alvarado’s revolution in Peru. He says he isn’t Marxist, but he isn’t anti-Marxist either. He believes that the solution for Venezuela will be different. He is certainly anticapitalist, and profoundly anti-imperialist. He insists they are carrying out a democratic and peaceful revolution. This revolution is not unarmed, however. Supported by 80 percent of the population, Chávez says he also has the support of most of the armed forces. In addition to those two weapons - the people and the army – Chávez has a third, somewhat strange one, which is the Bolivarian Constitution. This is not an ordinary constitution, like those of our countries, but one that contains all of the transformations of a great revolution, and because it was approved by general referendum it cannot be modified except through another referendum. With this constitution, he says, the legal and political changes are being made; the economic changes will come later when the situation is calmer. This is a sui generis process, says Marta Harnecker, and one that breaks the preconceived notions of revolutionary process.

The Bolivarian Constitution is the only one approved, not by a national assembly, but by millions of citizens. It recognizes the rights of workers and children. It prohibits the privatization of national oil reserves and requires the state to end latifundio, or large land holdings. The state must also support traditional fishermen, and democratic election of labor unions. It also recognizes the rights of indigenous peoples, and the right to valid information. The constitution has been published in many different sizes. The smallest version is almost miniature and has been given free to every Venezuelan. They carry it on them, and there is hardly a Venezuelan who hasn’t read it. It is the program of the revolution. There are experts of the constitution in the nation’s parks and on the streets. Even the rightwing refers to the constitution. When Chávez was temporarily removed in the coup, the first act of the shortlived, 37-hour government was to abolish it. And when the population took to the streets nationwide, surrounded the army barracks and liberated Chávez, copies of the constitution were held high.

One might think that with Chávez Venezuela is divided into two equal parts, but this is not so. The division is more like 80% (the poor) to 20% (the privileged). In some areas such as control of the media, however, this 20 percent weighs more than the other 80.

The two major traditional parties—the Christian Democrats and the Social Democrats—are corpses. The smaller parties count even less and are fragmented. Chávez has created his own party, known as the Fifth Republic (Quinta República), which according to what I’ve been told is quite diverse, comprised of former militants of other parties, even of the communist party, and of many people new to party politics.

The term “Bolivarian” which Chávez uses so frequently is not a mere word but rather the essence of his revolution. He often refers to the “500 years.” What has to be changed is what has happened over the past 500 years. The work of Bolívar must be completed, including the unification of Latin America into a federation. Chávez also talks of being in a battle that will define the next 200 years. Fidel told him that what he calls “Bolivarian” is what the Cubans call socialism, but he had no objection if it were called “Bolivarian” or even “Christian.”

Chávez has the country’s privately owned media as well as the foreign media against him. The opposition also engages in terrorism. Their political demonstrations amount to vandalism. In Valencia I was told that students returning from Cuba had their suitcases taken and their money and all of their belongings stolen. More than 80 campesino leaders have been assassinated. A psychiatrist told me that they treat many patients affected by rightwing terrorist campaigns.

Newspapers sell less and less because of their attacks against Chávez, and have lost advertising as a result. Even they admit their losses. Unopened bundles of El Nacional and El Universal are seen on the street at the end of the day, to be returned. The question the public asks is who pays these losses, and who pays the television stations for dedicating their valuable airtime not to news or to advertising but to political attacks.

Chávez is continually caricatured by these media employing a racism that is new to Venezuela. They ridicule his facial features and the color of his skin. Mimicking supporters who refer to him as “Mi Comandante” (my commander), the right has nicknamed him “Mico Mandante” (commanding monkey) because he is mestizo (of mixed European-indigenous blood) or mulatto or perhaps both, and because of his copper-colored skin. The rightwing campaign is openly elitist. I was told that one television host refers to the poor as “ugly” and “toothless”, and as “violent negroes”. The media is also calling for insurrection. The disrespect has almost no limits. The leader of one of the parties shouted “Fuck your Mother” at Chávez on television. In what other country has a head of state been addressed in this manner? “I don’t think I have ever known a country where there is such shameless obscenity in the media,” writes Marta Harnecker. Despite this, not one newspaper, television channel or radio station has been shut down. And there are no political prisoners.

In Mérida we were put up in a hotel where Chávez stays when he is in town. I was told that many people, especially students, stay up all night hoping to see him and chat with him. He often goes out in the early morning to greet his supporters and talk with them.

Chávez is often accused of being populist, but I don’t agree. I think he is authentically revolutionary, although he has an affinity for the working class. His love of the people and inclination for the poor is obvious. They speak to him using the familiar form of address, especially the most humble among them. He travels incessantly throughout the country, as he has done for years, since his first days in politics. He has gone fishing with indigenous fishermen who traditionally use their hands or large stones to catch and kill fish, and he has supplied them with fishing gear. He knows Bolívar by heart and quotes him constantly. Although he often speaks for hours, his audience is attentive. They interrupt him at the right moment, with applause, shouts, suggestions, exclamations or jeers, according to what is being said. He resembles Fidel in the way they both talk for so long yet captivate their audiences. Fidel is serious, however, while Chávez can be entertaining. Unlike Fidel, Chávez often refers to God and Christ in his speeches. He frequently quotes from the gospels. Sometimes his quotes are inaccurate, putting words into Christ’s mouth that were never pronounced by him, although in the same spirit as what he did say.

I shouldn’t deny the fact that I met honest intellectuals in Venezuela, some of them my friends, who are viscerally opposed to Chávez. For me, however, his Bolivarian revolution is as if Bolívar has returned to Venezuela, from where he had been banished by the local oligarchy. For me, it is an authentic revolution, and behind it is not just a charismatic leader but millions of Venezuelans. It is a revolution different from the others, in the way that all revolutions are unique.

Perhaps Chávez’s most popular device is his Sunday television program called “Hello Mr. President,” in which he responds to phone calls from all over Venezuela for five, six, seven hours straight. During the show almost all of Venezuela comes to a stand still. One writer told me that her father stays glued to his television set from the moment the program begins until it ends. Another told me his son listens with a notebook and pencil in hand, taking notes and calling it his “class.” Each Sunday the program takes place in a different town. When I was invited to the program it was in a city not far from Caracas, and it lasted six hours. There were enormous tents filled with thousands of people, mostly working class locals. There were many young people, mixed with government ministers and high officials. Chávez was in shirtsleeves before a table, which held pencils and a world map. He took notes on what was being asked by telephone, and gave long detailed answers punctuated by frequent jokes. The audience also intervened and joked with him. I realized that he is a cultivated man. He often cited books and authors, as well as the constitution, which he held in his hand and which accompanies him always. It seemed to me to be the only case in the world of a head of state engaging his citizens—both present and by telephone—in frank conversation, on live television and for so many hours on end.

An Australian poet was with me for the program that day. While Chávez was describing the countryside that surrounded us, and the hills where Bolívar once camped, she yelled out to him, “You are a poet&#33;”

It is a verbal torrent, full of digressions and digressions from digressions, but he doesn’t lose the thread and returns to what he had first begun to say. Although he talks incessantly he also knows how to listen, and allows himself to be interrupted. In that day’s “Hello Mr. President,” a woman calling from a remote corner of the country cut him off, saying, “But listen honey, you aren’t letting me talk, let me explain it to you . . .”

He answered these phone calls with pencil in hand. His facility with statistics is like that of Fidel. He shows a great understanding of Venezuelan history and of geography. In his public appearances he campaigns to encourage reading. He recommends books and recites passages. This time, in my honor, he read one of my poems.

His defects include being impulsive. At times he acts with brusqueness, and perhaps arbitrarily. He is too demanding of his associates, making him difficult to work with, as he himself acknowledges. He easily admits his errors and shortcomings, however. That day we heard him blame himself for bad decisions.

The Catholic hierarchy here is adverse to the revolution as it is everywhere else. And, as in Nicaragua, it is corrupt. The president of the Episcopal Conference is one of the worst. The now-deceased cardinal came to Chávez while he was being held prisoner during the coup and tried to pressure him into renouncing the presidency.

In Caracas there is a very large and very beautiful white building, which once housed the company offices of Petróleos de Venezuela. Here the country’s oil riches were administered autonomously. The government could not intervene in any way, and the country’s oil wealth was pillaged. Thanks to the new constitution, the government has now been able to take control of the company. Chávez fired thousands of corrupt workers, cleared out the staff from the headquarters, and converted the white building into the seat of the Bolivarian University, the university of the poor. Thousands of poor students are there now, in bright shiny offices with plush carpets, luxury bathrooms, and leather chairs. (Up until then, Chávez had thought of giving them the Miraflores presidential palace, saying he could live anywhere.)

Before this, the Venezuelan revolution had to confront an oil strike which paralyzed the country for two months. The strikers damaged oil wells, refineries and pipelines. They closed down gas stations, sabotaged boats, and blocked the ports. There was no gas for vehicles or for cooking stoves, and in many parts of the country they cooked with firewood. At the same time they closed supermarkets and department stores, processing plants and food distribution centers. The government had to import oil at international prices, as well as huge quantities of food. They imported beef from Brazil, milk from Colombia, and rice and corn from the Dominican Republic. The government also installed popular supermarkets where the population could buy food at lower prices, and these have since stayed open. The Christmas holidays were spent in the midst of these scarcities, but the population didn’t give up. One Spanish woman, who was there at the time and has since returned, told me that people endured it all with creativity and humor. The lines were endless and formed for just about everything, but the people standing in line were never bitter nor did they blame Chávez.

That same Sunday, after the “Hello Mr. President” program, Chávez invited the poets from the World Poetry Festival to dine with him at the Miraflores palace. Despite the fact that he had just finished a six-hour live TV program, Chávez held another colloquium lasting over two hours with us. He said the room where we were sitting had been the place where the organizers of the coup had met, and where the Chamber of Commerce had invested itself with executive power, abolishing the national assembly, the supreme court and the electoral commission while shouting “long live democracy.” Irish filmmakers were working on a film in Miraflores at the time of the coup and filmed it. Chávez gave us copies. It was the shortest coup in the history of the world, thanks to the poor who surrounded Miraflores and took to the streets. Students occupied the universities, workers took over the factories, and indigenous groups came out of the jungle. When Chávez was finally freed from the island where he was being held captive, the coup leader was already in prison.

“The beautiful revolution” is how Chávez refers to that of Venezuela.

At dinner that evening, I was given a seat next to the President. As we dined, he was informed of an attempt to privatize Venezuela’s waters—its lakes, lagoons, and rivers, including the Orinoco. He told me this was contrary to the constitution and said he would block it. He said he would call the president of the National Assembly that very evening, although it was almost midnight. When he finally retired for the night, and when we were about to do the same, a palace employee told me, “He’s not going to bed. He goes to bed very late.” When I asked at what time he woke up he replied, “Very early.”

Before leaving, Chávez asked that I bless him. I excused myself, as I do sometimes, and said that he was already blessed. He insisted, however, and I saw that he was serious. I said a solemn prayer for him and his people, and he was very moved.

When I returned to Nicaragua, I realized, just by seeing a few newspaper headlines, what an abyss separated our two countries.

[Capitalist Imperial]

It never was legitimate capitalism. Chavez simply storms legitimate enterprises like the local Coca-Cola factory and commondeers it like the dictator he is.

[redstar2000]

"The beautiful revolution" is how Chávez refers to that of Venezuela.

Wow&#33; That&#39;s really nice.

Warm and fuzzy, too. :wub:

What it&#39;s not (thus far) is proletarian revolution...no matter how much poetry they print.

The contracts between Chevron-Texaco or Microsoft and the Venezuelan Government are viewed by lawyers as a kind of poetry too.

Plundering Venezuela is "beautiful" to them.

:redstar2000:

The Redstar2000 Papers (http://www.redstar2000papers.fightcapitalism.net)
A site about communist ideas

[RevolucioN NoW]

It never was legitimate capitalism.

Capitalism is indeed not present in Venezuala, nor will it be for some time, with a vast majority of its people living in abject rural porvery.

Mass Industrialisation will be the first thing to occur when Venezuala starts progressing towards capitalism as it is practiced in the west.

It will happen.


Chavez simply storms legitimate enterprises like the local Coca-Cola factory and commondeers it like the dictator he is.

"legitimate businesses" which exploit their workers and kill trade unionists are not "legitimate" in the least.

Chavez, however inadvertently is in fact sowing the seads of modern capitalism by providing education and health care as well as beginning a process of industrialisation

And CI, how can a legitimate representative of the people (in the capitalist sense you would use the word) be a dictator, after all he did win an election with 60% of the vote?

[Louis Pio]

Until that happens, it simply makes no sense in realistic terms to speak of "socialism" in Venezuela.


Now I have never called what exists in Venezuela now for socialism. ONly rightwingers or naive leftists would consider it socialism.

My point is that the working class has not played any big individual role. Except from some very significant factory occupations.
Does that mean that there is no revolutionary situation in Venezuela? No of course it doesn&#39;t. The working class has untill now rather been a part of the borader "bolivarian movement" which includes everything form poor, peasants, street vendors and so on. That doesn&#39;t however mean that they hadn&#39;t put their hopes in the present government. Right now there&#39;s a feeling of actually wanting what they have been promised, that&#39;s also were there is growing distrust in the reformists at top. In the next year we will se this lead to growing clashes between the workers and the bosses. Which also show that Castro&#39;s and the reformists idea of a peacefull drawn out transisition to socialism is false. Class struggle is only growing, not the opposite. And the last coupple of years events in Venezuela has lead a big majority of the movement to radical ideas. A pretty good base for the workers taking power together with the poor, peasants etc in my oppinion.

[redstar2000]

President Hugo Chavez Frias repeats desire for closer links with the USA

Venezuelan President Hugo Chavez Frias says his government is interested in improving economic, social and political relations with the United States of America (USA).

"We are very interested in improving political, social and economic policies, especially with the USA ... nobody is relegating this to the last place ... I am sure that the new Ambassador has come with very clear indications regarding the need, as spokespersons in Washington have stated, of recognizing realism, the true realism and the real realism."

The President has called on Venezuelan business sectors to believe in his government...

http://www.vheadline.com/readnews.asp?id=22737

I sort of like that formula "realism, true realism, and real realism". :lol:

It would be useful on this board...especially in this forum.

:redstar2000:

The Redstar2000 Papers (http://www.redstar2000papers.fightcapitalism.net)
A site about communist ideas

[Louis Pio]

Yeah Chavez at this point seems to be hellbend on throwing away his support. Aided by useless advice from Castro and some of his administration. I however don&#39;t think that will result in any advance for the opposition, everybody knows they are rotten to the core. What it will lead to is probably that Chavez former image of "unattackable" will end and the criticism will reach him too. Good thing that what it depends on is the workers, peasants and poor. And not just the government. And that has exactly been my point, I think you have a top down approach to Venezuela.

[Capitalist Imperial]

Originally posted by [email protected] 10 2004, 04:29 PM

http://www.vheadline.com/readnews.asp?id=22737

I sort of like that formula "realism, true realism, and real realism". :lol:

It would be useful on this board...especially in this forum.

:redstar2000:

The Redstar2000 Papers (http://www.redstar2000papers.fightcapitalism.net)
A site about communist ideas
Looks like Hugo&#39;s finally coming around to the good side of the force.

[pandora]

Fuck yes&#33;
Thank you Chavez.
Of course everyone knows 13 units of Green Berets moved to the Venezualan/Columbia border last year Right? It was in Newsweek&#33;
I tried to post it here but permission was denied.
Possibly because we will get watched we start talking about the "Secret Wars"

[Louis Pio]

Looks like Hugo&#39;s finally coming around to the good side of the force.

The good side would mean naivite then?
He quite clearly goes against his base and we all know USA and the rotten capitalists of Venezuela would use the first change to boot him or kill him. He has however started something that neither he, the USA or your fascist friends in Venezuela can stop.
Sorry CI, I don&#39;t think your beloved US kissing military dictatorship will triumph, but hey you still have all the other pro-USA dictatorships to look up to :D

[Louis Pio]

Of course everyone knows 13 units of Green Berets moved to the Venezualan/Columbia border last year Right? It was in Newsweek&#33;


Colombia has however said no to the tanks Spain send them (under the former PP government).
Tanks that couldn&#39;t be used against the guerillas but would be quite handy in an invasion. So it seems the US stooges in Colombia is wise enough to not get caught up in the mad policies of the USA in regards to Venezuela.

[Capitalist Imperial]

Originally posted by [email protected] 10 2004, 10:30 PM

Sorry CI, I don&#39;t think your beloved US kissing military dictatorship will triumph
You obviously have little knowledge of Americas proven success record in South America.

[Louis Pio]

You obviously have little knowledge of Americas proven success record in South America.

No, I have done extensive studies in how you promoted massmurder and dictatorship in Latin America. I know you want to kill people if they want change, hell you even want to kill the families of those people. So yes im well aware of your bloodthirst. What I am saying is that you will get a hard time in Venezuela, especially considering you have stretched your army to the almost fullest and also considering that your army mostly consists of poor blacks/hispanics/whites. The same kinda people who started changing oppinion after Vietnam. Especially the hispanics would be open to a society actually promoting equality since you threat them like shit at home and they share language with the people you would want them to kill and toture.

[Capitalist Imperial]

Originally posted by [email protected] 10 2004, 11:40 PM

What I am saying is that you will get a hard time in Venezuela, especially considering you have stretched your army to the almost fullest and also considering that your army mostly consists of poor blacks/hispanics/whites. The same kinda people who started changing oppinion after Vietnam. Especially the hispanics would be open to a society actually promoting equality since you threat them like shit at home and they share language with the people you would want them to kill and toture.
Its obvious that you are not American.

Do you really think a Hispanic American soldier will defect to a venezuela slum? Get real. :lol:

You suggest that hispanics somehow have disdain for this nation, when in actuality they love America and being Americans. They are not marginalized to the extent you suggest. If you think that an American Hispanic or even a Black American is going to find a common Venezuelan&#39;s lifestyle and culture attractive just because they speak spanish, and that they will somehow lay down arms or defect, then you have a lot to learn.

I live in California, where hispanics are pretty much a majority. They have their own culture here, and the do very well for themselves. Hispanic soldiers love being Ameircan soldiers and they are very proud to defend this nation.

Believe me, I&#39;ve had plenty of exposure to hispanic culture, and I know what I&#39;m talking about. You over there in Denmark do not. Your presumptiousness betrays you substantially.

[Louis Pio]

Its obvious that you are not American.

Do you really think a Hispanic American soldier will defect to a venezuela slum? Get real.

What I suggest is that when thy come to a country were their "brothers and sisters" are actually getting their lions share they can move in another direction.


You suggest that hispanics somehow have disdain for this nation, when in actuality they love America and being Americans. They are not marginalized to the extent you suggest. If you think that an American Hispanic or even a Black American is going to find a common Venezuelan&#39;s lifestyle and culture attractive just because they speak spanish, and that they will somehow lay down arms or defect, then you have a lot to learn.


As always you have very little knowlegde of what drove people to immigrate. They wanted a better life. Why do they join the army? Because it&#39;s their only chance of going to college. Most people are not die-hard egoists as you, they actually want the world to be a better place, a common human trait which you lack. Venezuela is a quite developed country, the only thing that has keept the develpements from reaching the people is the small white parasite class you support.


I live in California, where hispanics are pretty much a majority. They have their own culture here, and the do very well for themselves. Hispanic soldiers love being Ameircan soldiers and they are very proud to defend this nation.


Of course alot have. Since it actually saves them from the shithole slums. However both you and I are aware that this is not all. And besides from that soldiers exposed to revolutionary ideas are quite dangerous, thats why the impeirialists withedrew their troops from Russia.

On top of that it is quite hard for soldiers to fight against a whole nation bend on keeping their freedom, especially when it&#39;s social freedom.


Believe me, I&#39;ve had plenty of exposure to hispanic culture, and I know what I&#39;m talking about. You over there in Denmark do not. Your presumptiousness betrays you substantially.

ROFL And that comes from the guy who like to share his views on the world even though he don&#39;t have a clue :D

Your army is seriously strethced at this point, you have thrown away you support in most of the world and to top that of the economy is not looking good (poor old Allen Greenspan has to tie knots on himself to make it seem otherwise).


Well I know you would prefer Venezuela to be nuked, that is however not going to happen.