John Kerry

[Latin American Socialist]

Is John Kerry a leftist or right-wing? He promises to let the people govern themselves, doesn't that sound a little Anarchist to you? He is a democrat and a anti-vietnam war guy, he was close friends with Jane Fonda (a leftwing actress).
Is he socialist or leftwing or is he another capitalist *****?

[1949]

Is John Kerry a leftist or right-wing?
He is a capitalist, and he's not a very left-leaning capitalist, either. He voted for the Iraq war, voted for the Kosovo war, voted for the Afghanistan war (I think), voted for the Patriot Act (and boasts that he AUTHORED parts of the PA on money-laundering), wants to add more troops to Iraq, wants to add 40,000 more troops in general, wants 100,000 more pigcops, wants a "Community Defense Service" to act as a secret police, wants to overthrow the government of Chavez in Venezuela, wants to toughen the embargo on Cuba, and has such an ambiguous position on gay marriage that it's safe to assume he wouldn't fight for it, and probably would even fight against it.

He promises to let the people govern themselves, doesn't that sound a little Anarchist to you?
No, that sounds like every capitalist politician.

He is a democrat and a anti-vietnam war guy, he was close friends with Jane Fonda (a leftwing actress).
He fought in the Vietnam War, then he protested it, and now he's back to being proud of his three fucking Purple Hearts and all the war crimes he participated in.

Is he socialist or leftwing or is he another capitalist *****?
I would call him a capitalist. I wouldn't use a sexist word, though.

Some useful articles on John Kerry:

http://rwor.org/a/1232/kerryside.htm

http://rwor.org/a/1243/kerry_war.htm

[redstar2000]

Apologies for the off-topic post, 1949, but there is a thread here that you and other RCP supporters need to respond to.

Life in the RCP (http://www.che-lives.com/forum/index.php?showtopic=28544&st=0)

Pardon the interruption.

:redstar2000:

The Redstar2000 Papers (http://www.redstar2000papers.fightcapitalism.net)
A site about communist ideas

[Djehuti]

Originally posted by El [email protected] 28 2004, 11:07 PM
Is John Kerry a leftist or right-wing? He promises to let the people govern themselves, doesn't that sound a little Anarchist to you? He is a democrat and a anti-vietnam war guy, he was close friends with Jane Fonda (a leftwing actress).
Is he socialist or leftwing or is he another capitalist *****?
He is a right wing *****. Here in Sweden he would be concidered very, very right wing. Hell, most people concider the social democrats (that are far left of kerry...some in the US things that they are commies or socialists) right-wing.

The democrats are far right, the republicans are extremly far right.
Well, parlamentarism is crap anyway, i think its great to see that only 50% if even so many of the adult americans vote. Here its unfortunatly much more that are fooled by the voting spectatle.

[1949]

rs2k:

Apologies for the off-topic post, 1949, but there is a thread here that you and other RCP supporters need to respond to.

Life in the RCP

Pardon the interruption.
I saw that thread. My only problem is with OglachMcGlinchey/VolPatsyOHara's and your sarcastic use of the terms "Great Leader" and "Dear Leader". Tell me, where have you ever seen kasama, Rosa or Andrei refer to Bob Avakian in such ridiculous DPRK-like terms? Because I've never seen them do that.

Other than that, I'm speechless. I really wish Rosa would respond to that, since she knows a lot more than me.

[Louis Pio]

saw that thread. My only problem is with OglachMcGlinchey/VolPatsyOHara's and your sarcastic use of the terms "Great Leader" and "Dear Leader". Tell me, where have you ever seen kasama, Rosa or Andrei refer to Bob Avakian in such ridiculous DPRK-like terms? Because I've never seen them do that.

The basis is the same. According to RCP Bob A is the LEADER (!) and a revolution can only be archived with him in charge. Considering that the archivement of this man is to build personal cult around himself I find that quite pompous.
I hope some of the RCP members participate in the thread on one of their members being labeled revisionist by their party hq.
(ohh revisionism, the top maoist buzzword ;) )

[1949]

Teis/Teiso/Mr Miyagi:

The basis is the same.
I didn't ask you to respond to it. :rolleyes:

(ohh revisionism, the top maoist buzzword ;) )
Yes, I've seen you refer to revisionism as some "mythical thing" before, which is funny since you claim to uphold Lenin. Lenin acknowledged the existence of revisionism in his essay "Marxism and Revisionism" (click) (http://ptb.lashout.net/marx2mao/Lenin/MR08.html).

[Louis Pio]

I didn't ask you to respond to it.

Sorry oh dear leader.


Yes, I've seen you refer to revisionism as some "mythical thing" before, which is funny since you claim to uphold Lenin. Lenin acknowledged the existence of revisionism in his essay

In the maoist use of the word it is mythical since it it thrown around to explain everything. It becomes a substitute for throughoug analysis. And get's reduced to a term you throw after people you don't agree with.

From http://www.rwor.org/a/firstvol/825/revolut..._leadership.htm (http://www.rwor.org/a/firstvol/825/revolutionary_leadership.htm)
"Bob Avakian Is This Leader
of the Leaders of our Party
Of all the leaders of our Party, Bob Avakian is the individual leader the Central Committee deems:

best able to lead the collectivity of the Central Committee and its Standing Bodies and, in this way and through the collective structures of the Party and its leading bodies, lead the Party and the masses.
best able to draw on the Party's collectivity to distill and concentrate what has come up from below, from the masses of people inside and outside the Party.
best able to distill and concentrate the lessons of history and of the revolutionary struggle of the international proletariat in particular.
best able to distill and concentrate the most fundamental political, ideological and organizational principles of MLM to date, and to lead in applying them.
best able to grasp and consciously wield the key scientific method that is dialectical and historical materialism with regard to every sphere of social practice and theory, in order to chart the uncharted path and continually bring revolutionary work into closer concordance with the objective interests and overall strategic objectives of our class.
best able to combine and connect great historical sweep and vision and a developed ideological and methodological grounding with a real sense of the sentiments of the masses and a deep understanding of the problems of the practical revolutionary movement.
best able to lead the revolutionary forces of our Party in two-line struggle against revisionism and opportunism and in going against all incorrect tides.
best able to set a standard for genuine proletarian internationalism and to lead our Party in carrying out its internationalist responsibilities as one contingent of the international communist movement, as one part of the Revolutionary Internationalist Movement.
"

I see that the succes of the revolution boilds down to the leadership of one man, the glorious Bob A.
Btw sorry for interupting the discussion with my views on the anti-communist idea of one man leadership.
On the orginal point of Kerry I agree with 1949.

[1949]

Sorry oh dear leader.
No wonder you don't post on E-G more, because your flaming would not be tolerated. But it was wrong for me to use that argument about you not being asked, because I too have responded to stuff I wasn't asked about. What I should have said was, how did your response answer my question? I didn't ask anybody to explain why they think the RCP's promotion of Avakian is similar to that of the DPRK's god-worship. I asked: where have kasama, Rosa or Andrei ever referred to Bob Avakian as "Great Leader", "Dear Leader", or other such ridiculous DPRK-like terms? I have never seen them do that. An appropriate answer would have been "they haven't"; or, "here [provide link to AWIP conversation in which kasama, RosaRL and/or Andrei X refer to Bob Avakian in ridiculous DPRK-like terms]".

In the maoist use of the word it is mythical since it it thrown around to explain everything.
Lenin constantly referred to people as "dogmatist" or "opportunist". Did that make dogmatism and opportunism myths? He also constantly referred to people as "reactionaries", "bourgeois", "imperialists", etcetera. Did that turn the imperialists, bourgeoisie and other reactionaries into myths? I don't think so.

It becomes a substitute for throughoug analysis.
Ever heard of the CCP's Great Polemics Against Revisionism?

Edit:

the anti-communist idea of one man leadership.
Ever heard of Carl Dix, Ray Lotta, Mary Lou Greenburg or Li Onesto?

[redstar2000]

My only problem is with...your sarcastic use of the terms "Great Leader" and "Dear Leader".

Here is what kasama wrote on August 26th...


Next thought was a matter of sharpening line: In fact, it is not just Avakian's ideas or his works that are promoted. But him as a leader. In other words, it is not just his works that are important. but his method. His approach. And also him as a person.

When they come for him, they will not just come for his books, but for him as a person.

When he leads in future decisive movements, it will not just be xeroxes of his past works that lead, but him (as a living person actually and literally LEADING.)

He is a key theoretical leader of the ICM, and a developer of MLM. but he is also a leader -- with all that means.

So there are actually issues of line: are we just promoting the ideas of this man, or are we talking about him as a person, a persona. Do the people need to "know his ideas" or do we need to help them know about HIM.

Similarly, are we simply following "his ideas" or are we following him.

http://awip.proboards23.com/index.cgi?acti...122086&start=15 (http://awip.proboards23.com/index.cgi?action=display&board=events&num=1092122086&start=15)

If the actual terms "great leader" or "dear leader" have been avoided (thus far), I suspect that's simply because it would "still" be regarded as unseemly.

But Avakian has certainly been described as "a living Marx" by RCP supporters on numerous occasions at the AWIP board...and, I think, it was even said here by RosaRL.

I seriously urge you to come over to the RCP thread and discuss these issues.

--------------------------------

An aside: the modern use of the word "revisionism" has become promiscuous -- it now means anything that the user of the word disagrees with.

In Lenin's day, it did have a specific meaning...it referred to social-democratic "Marxism" -- a "formal Marxism" that had been emptied of any revolutionary content.

Now, it's just a "cuss word" -- something you can call someone when you don't want to take the trouble to actually criticize their politics in a principled way.

The modern meaning of the word "revisionist" is: thick-headed wanker who refuses to acknowledge that I'm right.

:redstar2000:

The Redstar2000 Papers (http://www.redstar2000papers.fightcapitalism.net)
A site about communist ideas

[1949]

rs2k:

I seriously urge you to come over to the RCP thread and discuss these issues.
I have nothing to say, other than what I've already said in this thread.

Now, it[revisionist, revisionism]'s just a "cuss word" -- something you can call someone when you don't want to take the trouble to actually criticize their politics in a principled way.
Really?

I've seen what they write at AWIP, and it seems to me that they criticize people's politics in a very principled way, when they're not deleting posts.

[Wenty]

Is he socialist or leftwing or is he another capitalist *****?

Virtually every single politician in the world is a 'capitalist *****'.

[dotcommie]

hes a riighty, no self respecting communist would participate in bourgoisie elections

[Palmares]

Considering his policies are virtually tantamount to Bush, I think he is a fucking neo-con. And most of the differences between these two shmucks are actually Kerry being more right-wing than Bush (i.e. like sending more troops, etc).

I hate the democratics, but of all the candidates to win their leadership, he is possibly the worst. I thought Howard Dean would have been a bit better. But not that much.

[Louis Pio]

No wonder you don't post on E-G more, because your flaming would not be tolerated. But it was wrong for me to use that argument about you not being asked, because I too have responded to stuff I wasn't asked about. What I should have said was, how did your response answer my question? I didn't ask anybody to explain why they think the RCP's promotion of Avakian is similar to that of the DPRK's god-worship. I asked: where have kasama, Rosa or Andrei ever referred to Bob Avakian as "Great Leader", "Dear Leader", or other such ridiculous DPRK-like terms? I have never seen them do that. An appropriate answer would have been "they haven't"; or, "here [provide link to AWIP conversation in which kasama, RosaRL and/or Andrei X refer to Bob Avakian in ridiculous DPRK-like terms]".

I think the reason why I and countless others stop posting on EG is the onesidedness, small circle mentality and hysteric rants.
But yeah I didn't answer your question and are actually sorry for fronting you like that, since your not even a member I think. I do however stand by my view that it is the same. It seems only a matter of time before the Bobcult will go on to even more shameless promotion/worship ala DPRK.


Lenin constantly referred to people as "dogmatist" or "opportunist". Did that make dogmatism and opportunism myths? He also constantly referred to people as "reactionaries", "bourgeois", "imperialists", etcetera. Did that turn the imperialists, bourgeoisie and other reactionaries into myths? I don't think so.

Lenin gave a througough analysis and always behaved in a more open manner towards the rank and file of those organisations. Unlike the present maoist manner of just screaming at everyone. There's a big difference, one aproach alienates you as a secterian, with the other aproach you can win over the honest workers and youth from the different organisations such as Social Democracy, various communists etc.



Ever heard of Carl Dix, Ray Lotta, Mary Lou Greenburg or Li Onesto?

Ever heard of the communist principle of democratic centralism? Collective leadership? The cultishness of various newer organisations derive from your beloved leaders Koba and Mao


But anyway this discussion should take place in the thread Redstarr created.
I think he posted the link earlier

[1949]

I think the reason why I and countless others stop posting on EG is the onesidedness, small circle mentality and hysteric rants.
Onesidedness?! Is that why we allow right-wingers like Disco Stu and MausTanker to post in all our active forums, instead of ghettoizing them into a single "Opposing Ideologies" forum? And if you think that all the leftists there are in total agreement, I could link to a good number of debates I had with people there; or look at what I told Urban Rubble about Jina in the "RICK JAMES FUCKIN' DIED!!!!" thread in Chit Chat at this forum.

Lenin gave a througough analysis and always behaved in a more open manner towards the rank and file of those organisations.
Great. So did the CCP in the Great Polemics.

Unlike the present maoist manner of just screaming at everyone. There's a big difference, one aproach alienates you as a secterian, with the other aproach you can win over the honest workers and youth from the different organisations such as Social Democracy, various communists etc.
Looking at 2ctw and AWIP, it doesn't seem like they scream at people, up until these recent incidents.

Ever heard of the communist principle of democratic centralism? Collective leadership?
Yes, which is why I was giving examples of other RCP leaders. Carl Dix, Ray Lotta, Mary Lou Greenberg, Li Onesto, and one I just remembered today, Dolly Veale.

The cultishness of various newer organisations derive from your beloved leaders Koba and Mao
Please explain this statement. It made no sense to me.

But anyway this discussion should take place in the thread Redstarr created.
I think he posted the link earlier
I have nothing to say about that incident. Like I said, I really wish Rosa or someone else from AWIP would respond to that, because they know a lot more than I do.
---
Going back to the subject of John Kerry, I forgot to mention that he's a very strong supporter of Israel. Here's an article. (http://www.ernesto-guevara.com/forums/index.php?showtopic=1467&hl=) And here's another one (http://www.ernesto-guevara.com/forums/index.php?showtopic=1544&hl=).

[socialistfuture]

Right wingers think he is as red as my blood -
http://www.communistsforkerry.com

its a good laugh at least.


but seriously he aint going to fight the new world order - end imperialism, or dramatically change things in the US or abroad.

[1949]

Here's what I said about "Communists For Kerry" at another forum:

This is just a right-wing joke trying to portray anything opposed to Bush as being different than Bush, even when they're exactly the same.

Oh, and:
http://www.communistsforkerry.com/images/Logo_medal.gif
This is the most racist shit ever. If you transliterated "КЗЯЯУ" into Latin, it would say "KZYAYAU". These people have no knowledge of the Cyrillic alphabet.

[socialistfuture]

its a joke and a half kerry being a liberal as u will see from the ridiculous site

[1949]

Of course it's a joke. That's why I wrote, "This is just a right-wing joke..." (emphasis added).

A joke isn't good if it serves a reactionary purpose.

[ÑóẊîöʼn]

Right wingers think he is as red as my blood -
http://www.communistsforkerry.com

its a good laugh at least.

I don't find it funny at all. They are giving socialism negative connotations. Much as I dislike socialism, I hate right-wingers even more.


If you transliterated "КЗЯЯУ" into Latin, it would say "KZYAYAU".

What does it mean? is it some sort of racial slur?

[Guest1]

No, I think he's just talking about the way they basically make fun of the language to put Kerry's name in. Kinda like in most movies you'll have the supposed Arabs saying "khalabalala" instead of speaking any coherent Arabic words.

[socialistfuture]

i do thing the site had racist undertones.

must admit 'comrade red eyed' cracked me up

[1949]

Originally posted by Che y [email protected] 1 2004, 10:11 AM
No, I think he's just talking about the way they basically make fun of the language to put Kerry's name in. Kinda like in most movies you'll have the supposed Arabs saying "khalabalala" instead of speaking any coherent Arabic words.
Yeah, what CyM said.

[Munchimoniam]

Originally posted by [email protected] 1 2004, 04:49 AM
These people have no knowledge of the Cyrillic alphabet.
What a crime.

[1949]

Originally posted by [email protected] 4 2004, 01:46 AM
What a crime.
If you're going to write what looks like a Russian word, you should have some knowledge of what the fuck the Cyrillic characters are so you don't end up writing "KZYAYAU" where you're trying to write "KERRY".

Sensitive and I had a short conversation on this, and we determined that "KERRY" would look like this: "КЕРРИЙ".

[GoaRedStar]

What does KZYAYAU MEANS?

[1949]

I doubt "KZYAYAU" even is a word with a definition at all. That's just what you get when you transliterate "КЗЯЯУ" from the Cyrillic into the Latin alphabet.

Edit: I was right. Go to freetranslation.com and type in "КЗЯЯУ" into Russian-to-English. It just spits out the same thing, which means that it is not a word.

[socialistfuture]

the site isnt meant to be authentic - just a cheap attack on socialism and kerry with bad steriotypes - its so over the top - u would have to be fuckin thick to believe kerry has an far left agenda

[Kaan]

The thing that bothers me about the "Communists for Kerry" site is that people who are politicaly naive, looking for election info, could come across this site and draw bad conclusions from it. The joke isn't funny, its misleading. How funny would it be for someone to have a "Nazis for Bush" site, with some guy dressed up like hitler screaming shit at people at protests? Because they're doing that here with that guy who is obviously supposed to be a Lenin knockoff.

Also, whats with the ads at the top of the forums page, the majority of them are right wing sites. If someone could clear that up for me it would be greatly appreciated.

[Guest1]

The adds are targeted based on words on the page.

This page has alot of crap about kerry and bush, so it targets some ads based on that.

[refuse_resist]

John Kerry is to the far right of course, just like any bourgeois politician.

[Joe_Black]

Choosing between bush and kerry is like choosing between coke and pepsi.

[emanlive]

the thing to remeber with Kerry/Bush is that bush is a puppet for the neo-cons. While Kerry isn't so much...at lest with kerry in Cheney Rumsfeld Rice and Ashcroft are out


i would have rather seen Howard or kucinich on there

[Don't Change Your Name]

get the idea of "democrats/liberals as leftists" out of you head.

[Don't Change Your Name]

get the idea of "democrats/liberals as leftists" out of you head.

[Don't Change Your Name]

get the idea of "democrats/liberals as leftists" out of you head.

[Klipper]

Originally posted by [email protected] 10 2004, 09:28 PM
Choosing between bush and kerry is like choosing between coke and pepsi.
haha, yeah, their both shitty and will kill you!

its strange that i havent seen nader mentioned even once here!
i support nader, he is a total left-wing, peacnic, and hippie!

[Klipper]

Originally posted by [email protected] 10 2004, 09:28 PM
Choosing between bush and kerry is like choosing between coke and pepsi.
haha, yeah, their both shitty and will kill you!

its strange that i havent seen nader mentioned even once here!
i support nader, he is a total left-wing, peacnic, and hippie!

[Klipper]

Originally posted by [email protected] 10 2004, 09:28 PM
Choosing between bush and kerry is like choosing between coke and pepsi.
haha, yeah, their both shitty and will kill you!

its strange that i havent seen nader mentioned even once here!
i support nader, he is a total left-wing, peacnic, and hippie!

[Nas]

Originally posted by [email protected] 30 2004, 06:08 AM

Virtually every single politician in the world is a 'capitalist *****'.
every politician in the world is a ***** , including lefties

[Nas]

Originally posted by [email protected] 30 2004, 06:08 AM

Virtually every single politician in the world is a 'capitalist *****'.
every politician in the world is a ***** , including lefties

[Nas]

Originally posted by [email protected] 30 2004, 06:08 AM

Virtually every single politician in the world is a 'capitalist *****'.
every politician in the world is a ***** , including lefties

[Freedom Writer]

But Kerry is 'better' than Bush, right'o?

[Freedom Writer]

But Kerry is 'better' than Bush, right'o?

[Freedom Writer]

But Kerry is 'better' than Bush, right'o?