Women being paid less

[Anarchist Freedom]

Last Night in the car ride home my dad and i disscussed feminism. He said it was complete and utter bullshit and is one of the few reasons our country is in the shitter right now. I said wait hold on what. He said yep.


Himself being a buisness owner and accomplished worker. He says that the reason a women who gets employed is generally paid less because she does not have as much work experience as the man does soo she is not always paid as much as a man.


T/F??


:che:

CGLM! (http://www.cglm.net)

[Dr. Rosenpenis]

You need to tell your dad that he's fucking prick.
Do it for the revolution. =D

But seriously now, he's dead wrong.

The studies also sjow that women are paid less for the exact same work. And that's not the whole of feminism. Women are also generally undermined by our culture.

A lot of American women are completely subdued by their husbands. Just like it says in the Bible. Peachy, huh?

[revolutionindia]

The same reason why this topic has attracted so few reply's

No body cares

[RedAnarchist]

Women are paid less because patriarchal Capitalism sees them as lesser than men, which couldnt be further from the truth. Ability to do a job is not influenced by gender in any way, so women should be paid the same as a man would for doing the same job.

Women are equal to men. It is this simple fact that is incompatible to Capitalist ideals and incomprehensible to the reactionary.

[Funky Monk]

To be honest, and dont accuse me of being sexist here abillity to do some jobs can depend on some extent on gender. For a number of reasons.

First you have the basic differences in behaviour between men and women presents an interesting picture. For example in the British education system (and most likely in many others) girls excell in Coursework whilst guys tend to do better in the exams.

Secondly people are conditioned by society to behave in certain ways which makes them more applicable for certain jobs. There is generally an emphasis on women to be neater, more organised and more subservient which naturally makes them a more favourable candidate for ceratin types of work.


I'd just like to agree with revolutionindia in saying that shit happens because not enough people get pissed off.

[YKTMX]

Himself being a buisness owner and accomplished worker

Which one is he now?

[Vinny Rafarino]

He says that the reason a women who gets employed is generally paid less because she does not have as much work experience as the man does soo she is not always paid as much as a man.


Ugh.

We hear these lame excuses from "mature" men all the time;

"She brought that beating on herself; She knows I like to have my dinner on the table when I get home from work".

"If she didn't want to have sex, why did she wear that miniskirt?"

"She owed it to me, after all, I did pay for dinner didn't I"?

I doubt that your father will ever change his archaic views but there is a good side to it; you have not "fallen in his footsteps" and are helping to make sure these dinosaurs continue to become extinct.

[monkeydust]

Women are equal to men. It is this simple fact that is incompatible to Capitalist ideals and incomprehensible to the reactionary.


Pull the other one....

Surely it's going a little far to blame patricarchy on capitalism. Capitalism, at least as an abstract idea can be almost completely compatible with sexual equality.

I think it more likely that patricarchy's roots lie in the traditional institution of the family. Which has not, at least not for a very long time, been seriously challenged.


To be honest, and dont accuse me of being sexist here abillity to do some jobs can depend on some extent on gender. For a number of reasons.


You're right, to some extent.

There are certain jobs in which men excel better than women, and vice-versa. This is simply a product of biology; men, for example, will tend to be more suited to physical labour; women to rasing young children (In my opinion).

The issue isn't, however, one of whether or not men and women are equally suited to all jobs and occupations........

But it's why jobs traditionally suited to men reap greater material rewards.

In our current society, "male" occupations are, quite frankly, valued more than "female" occupations. Why is this so? Why should it be so?

[Funky Monk]

Well, in this capitalist system it is naturaly that the most highly paid jobs are to do with the movement and manipulation of capital. Now this is one of the areas in which men tend to do better than women, its a bugger isnt it.

[Guest1]

No! This is an area more men are hired to, and are paid more in, giving an impression of men "naturally" doing better in it when they actually do better because of the social conditions.

[Funky Monk]

And what about educational statistics which indicate that men are more apt at numerical skills?

[sparky44]

UGGGHHHHH!!!!!! Gawd talk about sexism......When women try to excel in business they tend to hit what is called the glass ceiling......since men don't want them to advance any further and keep them down. Not because men are better at business as some posters seem to think. The men that want to keep women down in business tend to feel threatened by a woman that's more intelligent and more business oriented than himself.

As for education......what stats did you read......I did better on my exams then half the males in my class......and I'm damned good at math (without the use of a calculator that kids can't seem to do without these days).

We have laws in place in this country......EQUAL PAY FOR EQUAL WORK......and I get paid equal wages to the men that are at the same level as myself. And make more than some males that aren't on the same level as I am.

[Guest1]

As you should, unfortunately not all women are in your position.

[sparky44]

I agree with you Che and it's too bad as women make up a considerable amount of the work force. Too bad more men don't move into this century instead of living in the 50's.

[CubanFox]

Originally posted by [email protected] 23 2004, 02:34 AM
The same reason why this topic has attracted so few reply's

No body cares
You really are a regressive little man, aren't you?

[Purple]

its just an effect of past suppresson, man working, women at home, i do not think that females has been fully "accepted" by the working society as hard-working intellectuals. evolution will never stop.

[sparky44]

Originally posted by Funky [email protected] 22 2004, 07:27 PM
To be honest, and dont accuse me of being sexist here abillity to do some jobs can depend on some extent on gender. For a number of reasons.

First you have the basic differences in behaviour between men and women presents an interesting picture. For example in the British education system (and most likely in many others) girls excell in Coursework whilst guys tend to do better in the exams.

Secondly people are conditioned by society to behave in certain ways which makes them more applicable for certain jobs. There is generally an emphasis on women to be neater, more organised and more subservient which naturally makes them a more favourable candidate for ceratin types of work.


I'd just like to agree with revolutionindia in saying that shit happens because not enough people get pissed off.
I&#39;d like to know what society you&#39;re talking about......the Middle East or certain African societies......or are you talking about the society you were raised in?? I was not raised to be neater or more organized then men........nor was I raised to be subservient to men either. I was raised to be an independant woman, my mother taught me that I can&#39;t wait for a man to take care of me as they tend to die before we do or one can get divorced etc and I need to be able to look after myself. The womens movement started long before the 60&#39;s......it started in the 1800&#39;s with the Womens Suffrage Movement. Time for you to go back to history class. <_<

[revolutionindia]

Originally posted by [email protected] 24 2004, 12:17 PM
You really are a regressive little man, aren&#39;t you?
What I meant is that people are not bothered with these issues and
it is high time they do something about it?

I fail to understand what you took it as?

[RedAnarchist]

I&#39;m glad you were raised like that sparky. Parents must ensure that their children do not grow into stereotypical gender roles, but grow up to be who they are and to celebrate that which they are. Gender is a border everyone could do without.

[Y2A]

Originally posted by [email protected] 24 2004, 03:54 PM
Gender is a border everyone could do without.
Indeed.

*Cuts off his genitals*

[sparky44]

I&#39;m glad my parents raised me that way as well. Both my sisters are the same way and my brothers were raised to treat women as equals.......no one is better then the next because of gender. And when our baby is born it will be taught as I was taught......one gender isn&#39;t better than the other gender. If nobody cared about this subject then there would have been no need for equality laws or the womens movement. :rolleyes:

[RedAnarchist]

Y2A, you know i didint mean that way. I dont advocate self-mutilation, but the destruction of stereotypes, the ending of inequity amongst humanity and the start of a new era of pansexuality and mental androgyny.

[Purple]

in the 80&#39;s in norway, women in work was looked upon as if they betrayed their home, but today its normal... its maybe an obvious difference, but it really goes faster and faster towards equality

[Funky Monk]

Originally posted by [email protected] 24 2004, 04:50 PM
I&#39;d like to know what society you&#39;re talking about......the Middle East or certain African societies......or are you talking about the society you were raised in?? I was not raised to be neater or more organized then men........nor was I raised to be subservient to men either. I was raised to be an independant woman, my mother taught me that I can&#39;t wait for a man to take care of me as they tend to die before we do or one can get divorced etc and I need to be able to look after myself. The womens movement started long before the 60&#39;s......it started in the 1800&#39;s with the Womens Suffrage Movement. Time for you to go back to history class. <_<
Im talking about British society. You can see it in toy placement for fucks sake for a start. Boy&#39;s are targeted by gear which promotes violence and action. Girls are targeted by dolls (and dont say this is an outmoded concept, it is fucking true).

Look at geneder specific magazines.
For females : fashion, gossip. Aspects which promote a neater and organised ideal.
"Lads" : Sex and sport, less organised.


And by the way, i studied the suffrage movement for A Level History which i have just passed thankyou very much.

To be fair, you are just extending what i said innacurately, i am not saying that i advocate the idea of women as the home makers, i am not saying that women are inferior i am just pointing about that socilogically and mentally there are differences between the way men and women behave and the way they are treated.

[DaCuBaN]

Im talking about British society. You can see it in toy placement for fucks sake for a start. Boy&#39;s are targeted by gear which promotes violence and action. Girls are targeted by dolls (and dont say this is an outmoded concept, it is fucking true).

Look at geneder specific magazines.
For females : fashion, gossip. Aspects which promote a neater and organised ideal.
"Lads" : Sex and sport, less organised.

These are the things that have driven me to believe that what lies between my legs is a figment of my imagination: I simply do not fit into culture irregardless where I turn. I tend to get infuriated at it, if I am honest.

The point in this post however, was to reinforce that this is very much a part of british society, and that FM is right...

[Urban Rubble]

Well, if they&#39;re doing the same amount of work and just as good of a job, obviously they should be paid the same. However, if it&#39;s a job that involves physical labor, the ugly truth is that on average a guy is going to be better at the job and therefore deserves more pay. I&#39;m not saying that is even a small part of the reason women are underpaid in most jobs, it just seems like alot of people don&#39;t want to admit that.

[revolutionindia]

Originally posted by [email protected] 24 2004, 10:48 PM
. If nobody cared about this subject then there would have been no need for equality laws or the womens movement.
Sparky America is not the centre of the world all that happens there
does not happen everwhere

1 billion women live in the 2 countries of india and china

And believe me things haven&#39;t changed even one bit for the last 1000 years

Forget equal pay women do not even enjoy equal right to life
In India
A hundred years ago women used to be burnt alive at their husbands pyre(Sati)
Today husbands burn their wifes because they did not get enough money from their fathers home a practice know as Dowry

When women are not getting burnt they are being sold at rates 1/6 the
rate of a German shepard dog

If you want to buy quality breed of dogs in india believe me they are more expensive than women

The rates for women vary from 50&#036; to 500&#036; depending on demand and the qualities the women possess.Also they are sold by auction the same way google sold its shares recently

In china the situation is similiar
and not to mention female foeticide which is a very long story

If people cared then all this would &#39;nt be happening

[Invader Zim]

Men have had the position of dominance in society unchallenged until the 20th century, slowely the traditional place of men in society has been eroded, and unfortunatly some men cant let go.

The majority of these men are of the older generations who were brought up in a very different time with different out look on life. Of course some of the younger generation is infested with this same bullshit, but as the older generation is replaced by the new these crazy ideals will vanish. Unfortunatly its generally these middle aged men who dominate the controlling positions of society and buisness, which is why this bigoty enters the work place.

[sparky44]

Originally posted by [email protected] 25 2004, 04:08 AM
Sparky America is not the centre of the world all that happens there
does not happen everwhere

1 billion women live in the 2 countries of india and china

And believe me things haven&#39;t changed even one bit for the last 1000 years

Forget equal pay women do not even enjoy equal right to life
In India
A hundred years ago women used to be burnt alive at their husbands pyre(Sati)
Today husbands burn their wifes because they did not get enough money from their fathers home a practice know as Dowry

When women are not getting burnt they are being sold at rates 1/6 the
rate of a German shepard dog

If you want to buy quality breed of dogs in india believe me they are more expensive than women

The rates for women vary from 50&#036; to 500&#036; depending on demand and the qualities the women possess.Also they are sold by auction the same way google sold its shares recently

In china the situation is similiar
and not to mention female foeticide which is a very long story

If people cared then all this would &#39;nt be happening
First of all......I don&#39;t live in America, I live in Canada. Second of all......all these things that you are telling me I already know. Amnesty International and many other womens groups have been trying to change this for a long time.......and I&#39;ve done a lot of research on womens human rights around the world. India and China aren&#39;t the only countries with atrocious human rights violations and inequality, just look at the Middle East, Pakistan and Africa. Young girls are circumcised without anesthesia and with dirty instruments, forced to marry when they are very young, killed if they so much look at another man. You are from India......do you treat your women like this??? Remember change doesn&#39;t come quickly......it takes time.......and trying to change centuries of abuse isn&#39;t easy but it can be done if people want to but the change has to start from within......the rest of the world can only help change a country if the people within the country help to make changes as well. <_<

[revolutionindia]

Originally posted by [email protected] 26 2004, 04:33 AM
You are from India......do you treat your women like this??? Remember change doesn&#39;t come quickly......it takes time.......and trying to change centuries of abuse isn&#39;t easy but it can be done if people want to but the change has to start from within......the rest of the world can only help change a country if the people within the country help to make changes as well. <_<
No I dont treat women like that nor do I advocate it

What ever is being done is not enough and is always too little and too late to affect
the majority of the women.

The forces of capitalism and consumerism will only ensure that
women continue to be expolited on a large scale

[sparky44]

Originally posted by [email protected] 26 2004, 09:23 AM
No I dont treat women like that nor do I advocate it

What ever is being done is not enough and is always too little and too late to affect
the majority of the women.

The forces of capitalism and consumerism will only ensure that
women continue to be expolited on a large scale
Think about it.......the worst atrocities against women aren&#39;t happening in capitalist countries......they&#39;re happening in Islamic/Muslim countries. Sure horrible things happen to women in the western world including severe abuse and murder, we all know that but at least we don&#39;t have to face genital mutilation, arranged marriages with god knows what and I&#39;m sure you know the rest......we are not considered property nor do we need to bring a dowry when and if we do get married. Don&#39;t blame capitalism/consumerism for the treatment of women......the abuse of women started long before capitalism came along.