U.S fall

[Nickelby]

no empire can carry on forever, they all fall after a while .
I was just wondering when you think the U.S power will fall .
(can't be too long now!)

thanks for any answers

Nickelby

[duk]

i hope so soon...i cant wait 2 see that ... i dont want 2 be old when thats happen. china will be the next power ! usa will fall not in a war but with an economical prob!

[Morpheus]

http://question-everything.mahost.org/Soci...ics/ampire.html (http://question-everything.mahost.org/Socio-Politics/ampire.html)

[Colombia]

If you hate the USA so bad how come many of you socialists have not left yet?

[Pawn Power]

Empires fall when they streach their military and economic influence to far and cannot substain it all. The U$ continues to pull in trillions world wide and continues to spend billions on their military. The more wars the U$ gets involved in being with the harder it will be for them to finance it all will keeping millions of troops in other none combate areas. I am not an expert and could not say how much longer the U$ could substain economic and military influence/control over the world. It could happen in the next decade or in the next century, I dont see their Empire lasting 200 more years though.

[Subversive Pessimist]

If you hate the USA so bad how come many of you socialists have not left yet?


Maybe because some of us don't live in the US? Maybe because we can't afford moving? :rolleyes:

Anyways, I think that, as Glory said, when they stretch their military and economic influence so far that it cannot substain it all. China will take over. Analysts and experts say that China will exceed the US in 2040. I doubt China will be a better superpower. All superpowers are "evil", but I think China will be the most terrifying we will ever see.

The US has a population of 291 million, and China's population is 2.3 billion.

[Casanova]

Im only 17 but as soon as I turn 18 and save up enough money Im out of here and to some other country Im trying to figure out.

[StarryPlough]

If nader could get into power imagine the shift to the left in american politics.the world would probably be a better place.

[Dr. Rosenpenis]

If nader could get into power imagine the shift to the left in american politics.the world would probably be a better place.

That isn't going to happen. And even if it did, he wouldn't be able to accomplish anything. D'you remember who the real ruling class is? And what about congress?

And I doubt China will even be a superpower. They've had a larger population that the US for decades. That doesn't make a country a superpower, though.

I think the European Union might threaten the US as a superpower. Their very economically influential countries. Now that they're loosely united, they may threaten the US, eh?

[Anarchist Freedom]

The u$ will fall within the next 100 year guarenteed an what goes up must come down.

[YKTMX]

Originally posted by [email protected] 21 2004, 05:02 AM
If you hate the USA so bad how come many of you socialists have not left yet?
:lol: Yeah, that's the right approach. If Che didn't like the Batista regime he should have just left!

[wet blanket]

I don't think any time soon. What I see happening is that our leaders are throwing so much money into the military and, at the same time, giving money to kids who enlist. As the economy and middle class begin to erode, the military is going to take their place.

[Fidelbrand]

U.S. to fall? long way to go, global capitalism is like a spectre hovering above us for a decade or so only. Who can and no one (except us) will resist the balmy & tantalizing shits that are spoonfeed in our mouths?

If China becomes a superpower, given that they still have the "titles" of PRC & CCP, they will never run State Capitalism to an ugly extent.
Also, the fourth generation leaders have invented and are implementing the "Green GDP" . The idea of incorporating scientfic/economic environmentalism is something that is adorable , this is fucking "progress with sustainability" (though using cappie means to achieve socialist ends, if they are....)

"Senior-binding" is much adopted in politics of China.
-Deng didn't denounce Mao in a bad way and has his photo in Tianamen scale & respected him as the beloved founding father.
-Jiang always boasted the ecomonic propserity of Deng.
-Now Hu, as said by some media, or scholars, is a puppet of Jiang although Jiang apprarently moved back to be the Chair of the CMC (Central Military Commision)

Maxism Lennism is now re-discussed in the burreaucracy.
Intra/Inter departmental corruption is curbed to a near zero by Hu's "cleansing"

Anyways, I agree with Victorcommie that E.U. has more potential in economic terms.

[Fidelbrand]

Originally posted by [email protected] 22 2004, 02:33 AM
I think China will be the most terrifying we will ever see.
......., and China's population is 2.3 billion.
Dreaming around....

If I were a diplomat of PRC, I will start a propaganda "The New LONG MARCH" .

What we do is to fund our people to travel around the globe, parading in a sea of red, shaking hands, marching while waving "Mao's quotation" (The little red book) to show a friendly gesture to all walks of people in this world to show that we are the friendly "World-Cop-Not" "We don't stick our dick into people's arse."

:P

[Fidelbrand]

Originally posted by [email protected] 22 2004, 02:33 AM
I think China will be the most terrifying we will ever see.

The US has a population of 291 million, and China's population is 2.3 billion.
Dreaming around....

If I were a diplomat of PRC, I will start a propaganda "The New LONG MARCH" .

What we do is to fund our people to travel around the globe, parading in a sea of red, shaking hands, marching while waving "Mao's quotation" (The little red book) to show a friendly gesture to all walks of people in this world to show that we are the friendly "World-Cop-Not" "We don't stick our dick into people's arse."

:P

[fernando]

Originally posted by [email protected] 21 2004, 05:02 AM
If you hate the USA so bad how come many of you socialists have not left yet?
Im not from the US, but ok...I mean the US pretends to be this free democracy where everybody can have his or her free opinion right? (lets ignore the fact that the US persecuts people who run left wing websites)

So in this free democracy the people would also have a freedom to be socialist right?

And maybe they want to change things in the US? I mean...that is allowed right in a democratic way? Or are only a small elite ruling class allowed to go into politics and rule this nation?

[Non-Sectarian Bastard!]

Uggh...

It doesn't per se aid to in the strive for a leftist world if the US Empire falls. What matters is how far we are in educating the population and what comes next. Only an educated population can avoid and free themselves from leaders, capitalism and strive to Communism. No vangaurd or (democratic) leader can EVER achieve that.

BTW: It's ridiculous to ask from our American Comrade's to leave that country because they hate the system. They hate the system, not the country. They want the American Society and system to improve, not to see it decay from across the border.

Without this spirit the USA wouldn't have existed, what if the settlers had moved away instead of fighting the American Revolution.

[Comrade Latino]

If time has tought us anything is that glory doesn't last forever and that too much pride will lead to destruction. The U$' glory won't last and all those proud american capitalists will be destroyed when the U$ falls.

[Bourgeoisie]

Originally posted by [email protected] 21 2004, 05:02 AM
If you hate the USA so bad how come many of you socialists have not left yet?
Many of them still live with their parents, and are not 18 yet. Besides how could they give up their playstation. :lol:

[wet blanket]

Originally posted by [email protected] 29 2004, 11:28 PM
Many of them still live with their parents, and are not 18 yet. Besides how could they give up their playstation. :lol:
That's not nice.... but funny. :lol:

[Capn An]

I've wondered this for awhile myself. I don't see them falling any time soon unless it was because of an uprising, which I don't see happening anytime soon.

Just hope it happens before we get a real-life Oceania.

[socialistfuture]

a lot of americans are tyring of bush - wether they will tire of the next bush or crony who knows

[socialistfuture]

a lot of people HATE bush in the states - maybe that will go beyond into hating the next prez and we cant start seing some changes.

the war with iraq aint always going to be centre stage something else will become the media's star. good luck yankee comimes

ya need a bit of this...

[Capn An]

Sure a lot of people hate Bush there are just as many who love him like no tomorrow. The population is split practically down the middle.

[socialistfuture]

to the leaving US if ure lefty thing (im not in the US) but for those who r - the best argument i have heard is because they will then be subjected to americas foreign policy.

i more intrested in how the US empire might end. peaceful or uprising. if nader were in it would become aparent the non existance of a true democracy because he would be blocked at every turn from making change. some argue the same will happen if kerry gets in - that ppl will learn its not just bush but the whole system. i think the other could happen - ppl think oh kerry cant do it - we need a real leader (bush) he is strong, he will protect us (when really he puts the US in the danger by angerering and warmongering).

anyway everyone gotta keep up the good work and we'll get there.
revolution the solution - power to the people!

[Major. Rudiger]

Oh man i love this thread! Well im not a american and i pround of that. Im a canadian. I was keeping a eye on the american govermant. This countery is going to fall apart. IF bush gets in for a second term. Oh man its going to a great thing once the american govermant falls apart.

The next super power isnt going to be China. Its most likely be the EU. They are jsut becoming more and more powerful. THey have one unionised army, one cerancy and many other things.Well once amercica falls theres is going to be the european union. Any was American is going to fall in 10 years tops 20 years and its going to be fun. Because of the free trade agreement between american and china that give them low cost to everything. Once thats gone china is going to lose money or america is going to move to eastern europe where they can get cheap labour.

America is going to fall people and its soon. I mean its like a train ride away. Yo peeps of the south of me move up to the GREAT WHITE NORTH. ITs awsome here good beer, good food, multi culturale, and other stuff.

[socialistfuture]

se thing is europe isnt unified tho. there are countries that want to leave the Eu - well groups that do (UKIP etc) and then the whole east europe vs west europe thing, new europe vs old europe, the old capitalism vs communism (again it was a east vs west thing mainly) some of these are old the resent and rivalry remains to a certain extent.
300,000 rallied in Genoa - against the corporate hegemony - Italy could go either way - the Left there is strong, the same in France, then there is the germany and france being outcasts for going against the war in iraq (the old europe) so there is fractures in the EU. Then there is things like Poland vs Russia etc - old rivalries. Europe hasnt been at war with itself for a long time although the Kosovo, serbia etc conflicts have happened.
Im not so sure it could become the next superpower - but who knows - and china is called the sleeping giant by some people but who would side with china?

again we need no superpowers - NO WORLD ORDER

[Commie Girl]

Originally posted by [email protected] 21 2004, 12:33 PM

China will take over. Analysts and experts say that China will exceed the US in 2040. I doubt China will be a better superpower. All superpowers are "evil", but I think China will be the most terrifying we will ever see.

The US has a population of 291 million, and China's population is 2.3 billion.
The frightening thing about China is that with their "population control" there will be a HUGE Population of Men, without enough women....there was a documentary about this on CBC recently that shows the discouragement of Chinese men since there are not nearly enough women and if you are marginalized, you have no hope of marrying....eek!

[socialistfuture]

lots of men.... soilders&#33; conspiracy theories here >_ _ _< please jk

[Debs'atron]

The roman empire fell because they were spread waaaaay to thin and a series of inaffective leaders and a series of unexpected invasions. The American empire is not doomed yet, they can still pull out of the nosedive they&#39;re getting themselves into. Their economy is getting worse and their military forces are spread everywhere. The only way to save themselves is to totally pull out of international politics for a time. Fortify their held positions and focus on social and economic issues and wait until their economy can support further "acquisitons". I hope they do fall. I don&#39;t know about soon, because its hard to predict what would happen if the U.S. government fell. What would happen to its massive nuclear stockpile, its Bioweapons programs, and more importantly what would the ruling class do when they feel they have lost control?If they keep on this way, they&#39;re boned hard. I feel, if they fall some VERY BAD things will happen after.

[h&s]

Hey maybe conparisons to the Roman Empire are accurate. Just think about it; the Romans pulled their troops out of places like Britain to take them back home as Rome had been under attack, and now the US has recently been attacked (not the same as an invasion, but times are different) and is now in the process of sending its troops from the far reaches of its &#39;empire,&#39; such as Germany and South Korea back to defend the homeland. It sounds quite familiar...

[Non-Sectarian Bastard!]

The US has been attacked?&#33;

9-11 brought the US leadership lots of good things. There was hardly any damage in the materialistic sense, but people did become afraid. People felt threatend and nothing can stir up the good ol&#39; fighting spirit as an outside threat. That fear has been used to "justify" military, political and economical attacks on American proletarians and foreign bourgeoisies. The damage done at 11-9 in the materialistic sense is pretty much equal to one cruise missile.

9-11 "justified" military, political and economical attacks. US power increased and didn&#39;t move troops back to the homeland, rather they are now moving troops from Europe, Japan and Korea to the front (middle-east).

The US isn&#39;t falling, it hasn&#39;t even reached the height of it&#39;s power.

[h&s]

The US isn&#39;t falling, it hasn&#39;t even reached the height of it&#39;s power.

It may seem that way, but I rekon thats an illusion. When an empire is losing strength the most &#39;sensible&#39; thing to do would to increase its power as percepted by others. That hides its lack of power. Its kind of like when a star dies - it massively increases in size and strength, but then it suddenly just implodes.

[ECGAmerica]

Enivetably the US will become Liberal, then Socialist, then Communist with the rest of the world.

[Comrade Latino]

Enivetably the US will become Liberal, then Socialist, then Communist with the rest of the world.
I like the way you think. Although i doubt that will happen anytime soon.

[ECGAmerica]

Originally posted by Comrade [email protected] 3 2004, 09:38 PM
I like the way you think. Although i doubt that will happen anytime soon.
Time is something that we have a skewed concept of, for our 75 seconds does not compare to the future of humanity, our actions we take now will effect the futures outcome, long-term thinking IS a necessity.

[Never Forget, Never Surrender]

I can&#39;t see the U.S. crashing all at once. The respect for the "rule of law" is so ingrained in people; they like having the government there, even they say otherwise. They&#39;d rather have the evil they know than the revolution they don&#39;t.
That said, a gradual, peaceful change in the short term is definitely viable. There&#39;s a culture war going on, and a larger one sided political war that the GOP has been waging unchecked.
I still think that for the U.S. to go ANYWHERE, we have to break the GOP. They are moving this nation so far to right, so quickly that an economic and political crisis is likely to occur in the next two decades, no matter who wins this next election. If Bush wins, it&#39;s damn near guarenteed.
For the U.S. to "fall" (which as an American, I&#39;m not really that eager to see neccessarily) we need to revitalize the "activist culture" of the past. The labor movement, the civil rights movement, the Left.... all these things can take us rapidly in the right direction if they are organized and mobilized.
It will be a gradual shift.... and we&#39;ll win unless the Chinese rise up and bite us in the ass.

[fuerzasocialista]

I think we might be seeing the beginning of the fall of the U&#036; right now. However, thats a process that is going to drag on because the U&#036; won&#39;t go without a fight. The next hundred years will be most interesting.

[Debs'atron]

Well thats the problem with the American public, they&#39;re so completely kept in the dark by the education system. And the American Government was such a monstrous Propoganda machine that still today "Communisticaly Inclined" Americans are those "Insane radicals". The government said capitalism was the best way for so long people stopped asking why. I&#39;m only 17 and to talk politics in High School is considered Social suicide. Most Americans just don&#39;t give a flying sex. They&#39;re all so over stimulated, they are drones content to drudge through life sucking at the corporate teet. When the government does things right the people begin to trust the government and stop questioing it. America will never returm to the passionate protests of the 60&#39;s. Something MASSIVELY and I mean MASSIVELY revealing about the U.S. govt. will have to come about for anyone to care again.

[PRC-UTE]

here&#39;s a relevent figure perhaps:


US military deaths in Iraq pass 1,000


US military deaths in the Iraq campaign passed 1,000 today, as clashes with both Sunni and Shiite insurgents killed seven Americans in the Baghdad area.

The count includes 998 US troops and three civilian contractors killed while working for the Pentagon.

The tally was compiled by the Associated Press based on Pentagon records, AP reporting from Iraq, and reports from soldiers’ families.

[h&s]

Something MASSIVELY and I mean MASSIVELY revealing about the U.S. govt. will have to come about for anyone to care again.
Yeah, but do you really think the US won&#39;t be able to get out of the situation? The &#39;news&#39; networks will report the event as if it isn&#39;t half as bad as what it is, and people will lose interest after a few months. The news networks breed apathy into the people, and they will be able to exploit that easily.