I got a serious question for the Right Wingers.

[Comrade Zeke]

Ok this is just for the Right Wing people here,Let me tell you I am, Before the question,

My name is Comrade Zeke former stark Communist, I stop posting here along time ago cause it got to heated, Communists don't beilive in Religion like I am and most people here really don't like my views. Heck most people just didn't like me because I wasn't as left as Redstar or Geiz or Che Y Majrua or the rest of these really cool and educated Commies. I respect their views but I am not with them as I usta to be, let me explain what government and poltical belifs I believe in I am before I ask the question.

I am a Titoist,Social Democrat and someone what of a Conservative in someways.
Fidel Castro is great guy, he doesn't tormet his people like some as*fu*cks* I know. Russia was better under Socalism now the place is ruled by a bunch of Mafia people with money. Disease is rampant and Valimar Puttien just pulled back a bunch of Social Bennifits. But I have come to accept that Communism is a dream, Socalism however is not so I approve of it, I am more of a Democrat and I support John Kerry against Bush even though John Kerry is a dork too. I belief that every man and woman should own land but I belief that the government should provide more and have a more firm girp on the electirc company, water company etc. The Government should make sure huge buineesses like Microsolf and Cosco never gain power because they take over with there power and decite.
Amerika (dilibertly spelled America wrong cause I called it Amerika) "The land of Democracy" yeah right! doesn't even have a universal health of school system college cost big bucks and you want help with a comman cold you got to pay
money! Millions are homless and thousands more are struggling to survie in the harsh buiness world of Amerika. Its wrong and I fully intend to move to Socalist Europe when I am old enough. I am a Greek Pagan and I don't believe in the false Hebrew God. Anyway basically I am just a advicate of Socalism and to make sure everyohe has a fair chance, a good job and clean nice wya of living.

Ok so here is the question why do all you Capitalists stay here in a Sea of Left Wing supporters I find it preety lame, the Commies here are never going to agree with your points, and your not going to agree with their system. Give it up its preety lame how you stay here and voice your opinions when their just as close minded and arrogrant as you are, you can't force someone to agree with you! They're forever going to be the way they are Communal Supporting, Anarcistic, No government, freedom, free everything lovers, hate religion, Comrade people.
And you Capitalists your forever going to be into Bushy, and big buinesses and all your petty stupid Christian things, your imperislim and your America is the land of Freedom. Ok so give it up give the Che-Lives people their space they deserve to state their opinions in peace if you want to fight Communists why don't you go an Anti-Communist site and bad mouth them there. And the Leftist people here why do you keep lisening to them??? Just ignore them! You ban them and make them post in this one place.

So jeezzz give it all up both sides, Its stupid to fight with a bunch of Arrogrant Minded Capitalists, and its Stupid to fight with a bunch of Close Minded Communists who run the site!
Anyway all of you have a nice day. :)
Zeke.

[Guest1]

Ok wait, so you say me, redstar and geist are more left-wing and more educated. Then you say you've come to the conclusion Communism won't work.

How do you know that we're not right and you just don't know better yet? :D

[Soldier Sam]

Hmm Im afraid that the more educated thing was sarcasm? And to answer your question, about why us Leftists still bother to listen to these OI'ers, well I think its important we confrot them and discuss issues and potential problems with a Leftist society, I belive its quite healthy to debate and discuss, and actually realize our selves what is wrong with our ideaology and how to get around these questions, because you cant just think about some perfect utopian ideal, you gotta think more practical,

You dig?

[Comrade Zeke]

Yeah I guess but it gets old, there a bunch of Cappies they really don't care what you tell I am sure your not going to go over to Capitalism either I am just poiting out something.
And Che y Marijuana, I don't even want talk about it anymore I am sure your right about Communism but intill I see if happening on a large scale I am going to stick my belief that Eroupe will someday be a super power of Socalism.

[Comrade Zeke]

Sorry about spelling its spelled "Europe" not "Eroupe" lol hahahaha
Zeke

[Y2A]

Should have just edited your post.

[The Feral Underclass]

what waste of time and effort...you could have masturbated in the time it took you to write that and I can assure the result would have been far better.

[Guest1]

:lol:

How do you know he didn't? Only someone completely distracted could have come up with that stuff.

[Comrade Zeke]

Are you talking to me? :( or are you talking to the Cappie dude?
Zeke

[Pale Rider]

What is the point in testing my philosophical ideas against people who agree with me? I prefer to be challenged.

By the way, our health care may not be universal...but it is the best in the world...even the homeless who show up in the emergency rooms here get a higher standard of care than the rich in your socialist leaning countries...

I am walking around today because of a cancer treatment drug called Rituxameb...It has been availible here for about 5 years...you can't even get it in countries with socialized medicine because the manufacturer wont sell it for the capped price the socialists want to pay...so they die in socialist countries...unless they have money so that they can come here...

so which is really better?

[Comrade Zeke]

but there is a diffrence Pale Rider.......there is hardly any homless people to begin with in Socalist Countries, the Soviet Union had barely any homless people cause people had homes to go to home to, and your wrong about that America does not have the best medice, Germany is considered one of the top in the world and they are pro-Socalist. Germany if I am not mistaken has a unviersal and free health care system for almost all its citizens! Along with Norway, Finland and Sweedan all great example of Socail Democracy at work, Norway also has the best stander of living in the world!
Zeke
But I am not taking anymore sides here I just wanted to post one question, I will go back to being quite.

[Y2A]

The thing about drugs has been brought up in other threads. And the main problem is the fact that the U.S does alot of the R&D. Perhaps putting taxdollars into R&D is the solution. However, it's not fair that countries like Canada get credit for alot of drugs developed in the United States. But in general, I agree, this system set up in the states is garbage.

[Hoppe]

Originally posted by Comrade [email protected] 18 2004, 11:06 AM
Germany is considered one of the top in the world and they are pro-Socalist. Germany if I am not mistaken has a unviersal and free health care system for almost all its citizens! Along with Norway, Finland and Sweedan all great example of Socail Democracy at work, Norway also has the best stander of living in the world!
Zeke
But I am not taking anymore sides here I just wanted to post one question, I will go back to being quite.
Wrong. Germany even has listed healthcare providers (which evidently provide better services at lower costs, even for the poor).

Furthermore, German healthcare is pretty much bankrupt and it, just as many other European countries, have to drastically cut costs.

And, don't forget that the Norwegians are living on a large pool of oil.

[eyedrop]

And, don't forget that the Norwegians are living on a large pool of oil.

The really interesting thing is that in many of the other countries that has a lot of natural resources the people live like shit.

Why can that be?? Maybe that someone else takes them, either externally or internally.



Norway also has the best stander of living in the world!

I belive Switzerland has better standard of living, not completely sure though.

[Pale Rider]

The US is about the only place that one can be relatively free from the state...I would rather live homeless and be free than live in a palace and be a slave to the state...

[redstar2000]

Originally posted by Pale [email protected] 18 2004, 10:42 AM
The US is about the only place that one can be relatively free from the state...I would rather live homeless and be free than live in a palace and be a slave to the state...
Sorry, PR, but under an obscure provision of the Patriot Act, being homeless will require a federal license after January 1, 2005. :lol:

:redstar2000:

The Redstar2000 Papers (http://www.redstar2000papers.fightcapitalism.net)
A site about communist ideas

[Capitalist Imperial]

Norway also has the best stander of living in the world!



I belive Switzerland has better standard of living, not completely sure though.

By what measure? Look at tax-rates, freedoms, and business/home-ownership rates in either of those nations compared to the USA.

I'll take America any day.

Zeke, we'll see how quick you move to socialist europe when you are old enough to actually move out.

[Capitalist Imperial]

Originally posted by [email protected] 18 2004, 05:11 PM
Sorry, PR, but under an obscure provision of the Patriot Act, being homeless will require a federal license after January 1, 2005. :lol:

:redstar2000:

The Redstar2000 Papers (http://www.redstar2000papers.fightcapitalism.net)
A site about communist ideas
Come on, Redstar, stop hanging your commie hat on the stupid Patriot Act, it has not created the oppressive police state that you all suggested it would, nor will it. Not even a little bit, really.

It has pretty much been transparent to the American constituency.

[redstar2000]

Come on, Redstar, stop hanging your commie hat on the stupid Patriot Act, it has not created the oppressive police state that you all suggested it would, nor will it. Not even a little bit, really.

How would you know? It's not as if our Homeland Gestapo is kicking your door in.

So far, it's been people with "funny names" and brown skins who've "disappeared"...which is not considered "news" in the Daily Bullshit or on Fox Spews.

Buy, hey, try to board a flight anywhere in the U.S. today without a driver's license...see if they let you on the plane.

Remember those old movies about the Third Reich...where the uniformed thug comes up to you and barks "Your papers, please!"

By the way, my little joke at PR's expense is not simply humor; several municipalities in the U.S. have introduced "homeless licenses" and actually charge the homeless for them. They've also created "begging forbidden" zones (guess where? :lol:).

Many poor Americans lived in a police state before the Patriot Act...now more Americans are going to find out what it's like.

Who knows? When "they come for you" -- since you're a known associate of subversives just by virtue of posting on this board -- what are you going to say?

"What about my rights?"

As the Chicago airport pig said in a brief fit of honesty: "After 9/11, nobody has any rights!"

Sieg Heil, sucker. :)

:redstar2000:

The Redstar2000 Papers (http://www.redstar2000papers.fightcapitalism.net)
A site about communist ideas

[The Sloth]

Originally posted by [email protected] 19 2004, 01:20 AM

How would you know? It's not as if our Homeland Gestapo is kicking your door in.

So far, it's been people with "funny names" and brown skins who've "disappeared"...which is not considered "news" in the Daily Bullshit or on Fox Spews.

Buy, hey, try to board a flight anywhere in the U.S. today without a driver's license...see if they let you on the plane.

Remember those old movies about the Third Reich...where the uniformed thug comes up to you and barks "Your papers, please!"

By the way, my little joke at PR's expense is not simply humor; several municipalities in the U.S. have introduced "homeless licenses" and actually charge the homeless for them. They've also created "begging forbidden" zones (guess where? :lol:).

Many poor Americans lived in a police state before the Patriot Act...now more Americans are going to find out what it's like.

Who knows? When "they come for you" -- since you're a known associate of subversives just by virtue of posting on this board -- what are you going to say?

"What about my rights?"

As the Chicago airport pig said in a brief fit of honesty: "After 9/11, nobody has any rights!"

Sieg Heil, sucker. :)

:redstar2000:

The Redstar2000 Papers (http://www.redstar2000papers.fightcapitalism.net)
A site about communist ideas
I agree.

I was just with some people the other day, and hip-hop discussion turned into a conversation regarding politics. Many non-violent leftist organizers had their doors kicked in for no reason other than having a different view on what the world should be.

It definitely happens.

[CubanFox]

Originally posted by Brooklyn-[email protected] 19 2004, 11:42 AM
I agree.

I was just with some people the other day, and hip-hop discussion turned into a conversation regarding politics. Many non-violent leftist organizers had their doors kicked in for no reason other than having a different view on what the world should be.

It definitely happens.
What was the one in California? Peace Fresno? Infiltrated by the FBI? That little infiltration was only discovered because the agent in question went and got himself killed in a motorbike accident: imagine the degree of infiltration in the larger, somewhat more militant organisations!

[Pale Rider]

Originally posted by [email protected] 19 2004, 01:20 AM

So far, it's been people with "funny names" and brown skins who've "disappeared"...which is not considered "news" in the Daily Bullshit or on Fox Spews.


You know...I can't find refrences to such activities in the main stream news either...or in the patently liberal rags that dot the landscape...the only people who are actually making such accusations are members of the tin foil hat brigade...

[Guest1]

Originally posted by Pale [email protected] 19 2004, 06:06 AM
the only people who are actually making such accusations are members of the tin foil hat brigade...
:huh:

I thought we said Fox News didn't cover it?

[Pale Rider]

Originally posted by Che y [email protected] 19 2004, 10:27 AM
:huh:

I thought we said Fox News didn't cover it?
who is?? or are these accusations just another imaginary construct?

[Sabocat]

FBI “anti-terror” task force targets Bush administration opponents

18 August 2004

The Federal Bureau of Investigation has embarked on a large-scale operation to intimidate and attack opponents of the Bush administration’s war policy. In advance of the Democratic National Convention held earlier this month in Boston and the upcoming Republican convention in New York City, the FBI’s Joint Terrorism Task Force (JTTF) has mobilized agents to spy on, interrogate and threaten antiwar protesters and disrupt their activities.

In violation of basic democratic and Constitutional rights, the JTTF has placed under surveillance, and in some cases interviewed, dozens of people in at least six states about their antiwar views and actions. The JTTF’s measures have included visits to the homes and workplaces of antiwar activists, as well as to their friends and family members. In none of these cases was there any evidence of criminal activity—either committed or planned—on the part of the targeted individuals.

In keeping with Bush administration policy in the wake of the 9/11 terrorist attacks, the FBI claims the operation is warranted by the “war on terrorism,” and that this outweighs any abridgment of basic civil liberties, including the First Amendment right to free speech and association. The spying operation is, in fact, a revival of McCarthyite tactics, aimed at silencing opponents of government policy.

Local offices of the American Civil Liberties Union (ACLU) have reported that FBI agents throughout the US have been monitoring the daily activities of numerous political activists, whom the authorities believe are planning to protest at major political events, including the upcoming Republican National Convention.

The New York Times reported August 16 that three men in Missouri in their early 20s said they were followed by federal agents for several days in the period leading up to the Democratic convention. FBI agents visited the homes of the young men’s parents and questioned them about their sons’ political views and activities. The three had planned to drive to Boston with a St. Louis-based activist group to protest at the convention, but were prevented from doing so when they were subpoenaed to testify before a federal grand jury on July 29.

Read the rest (http://www.wsws.org/articles/2004/aug2004/fbi-a18.shtml)

[Capitalist Imperial]

Originally posted by [email protected] 19 2004, 01:20 AM

How would you know? It's not as if our Homeland Gestapo is kicking your door in.

So far, it's been people with "funny names" and brown skins who've "disappeared"...which is not considered "news" in the Daily Bullshit or on Fox Spews.

Buy, hey, try to board a flight anywhere in the U.S. today without a driver's license...see if they let you on the plane.

Remember those old movies about the Third Reich...where the uniformed thug comes up to you and barks "Your papers, please!"

By the way, my little joke at PR's expense is not simply humor; several municipalities in the U.S. have introduced "homeless licenses" and actually charge the homeless for them. They've also created "begging forbidden" zones (guess where? :lol:).

Many poor Americans lived in a police state before the Patriot Act...now more Americans are going to find out what it's like.

Who knows? When "they come for you" -- since you're a known associate of subversives just by virtue of posting on this board -- what are you going to say?

"What about my rights?"

As the Chicago airport pig said in a brief fit of honesty: "After 9/11, nobody has any rights!"

Sieg Heil, sucker. :)

:redstar2000:

The Redstar2000 Papers (http://www.redstar2000papers.fightcapitalism.net)
A site about communist ideas

How would you know? It's not as if our Homeland Gestapo is kicking your door in.

I haven't seen news of them kicking any door's in, which brings us to...


So far, it's been people with "funny names" and brown skins who've "disappeared"...which is not considered "news" in the Daily Bullshit or on Fox Spews.

Now you're claiming that somehow "ghosts" are makeing "subversives disappear" a la cold-war clandstine-type operations? I'm sure that f Fox doewsn't broadcast it, The Guardian would, right?

How can anyone really argue for or against something so "in the shadows"? Did America fake the moon landing too, Redstar?


Buy, hey, try to board a flight anywhere in the U.S. today without a driver's license...see if they let you on the plane.

What in the heck do you have a problem with this for? ID checks have been par for the course with many institutions. This in no way goes against any constitiutional provisions, as right to privacy does not extend to compromising public safety, never has. By the way, you needed a drivers licence or other official ID to board any plane before 9/11.


Remember those old movies about the Third Reich...where the uniformed thug comes up to you and barks "Your papers, please!"

Yes, I do, and I've never seen that done any airport or anywhere period. Honestly, Redstar, compared to many others on this site, I expect more from you than the cliche and less-than-apt analogies between Gestapo/Homeland Security or Bush/Hitler.


Many poor Americans lived in a police state before the Patriot Act
I don't understand this, do you mean harassment of minorities or something along those lines?



...now more Americans are going to find out what it's like.

the patriot act is in its 3rd year now, when should I expect this great windfall?



As the Chicago airport pig said in a brief fit of honesty: "After 9/11, nobody has any rights!"

One idiot's commentary doesn't dictate policy.


Sieg Heil, sucker. :)

Wow, another cliche and totally false analogy. How many WWII vets and murdered people at the hands of the Nazis do you so casually dishonor when make this tired and ignorant comparison?

[Capitalist Imperial]

Originally posted by Brooklyn-[email protected] 19 2004, 01:42 AM
I agree.

I was just with some people the other day, and hip-hop discussion turned into a conversation regarding politics. Many non-violent leftist organizers had their doors kicked in for no reason other than having a different view on what the world should be.

It definitely happens.
I here of all kinds of talk to this effect, but I've enver seen any documentation. No pictures of broken doors, no ransacked apartments, etc, no footage of the cops releasing dogs on otherwise peaceful granola-eaters, etc.

So, when you use "definitely", be prepared to back it up with something besides a passing conversation and heresay at the end of a discussion about hip-hop.

[Capitalist Imperial]

Originally posted by [email protected] 19 2004, 04:18 PM
FBI “anti-terror” task force targets Bush administration opponents

18 August 2004

The Federal Bureau of Investigation has embarked on a large-scale operation to intimidate and attack opponents of the Bush administration’s war policy. In advance of the Democratic National Convention held earlier this month in Boston and the upcoming Republican convention in New York City, the FBI’s Joint Terrorism Task Force (JTTF) has mobilized agents to spy on, interrogate and threaten antiwar protesters and disrupt their activities.

In violation of basic democratic and Constitutional rights, the JTTF has placed under surveillance, and in some cases interviewed, dozens of people in at least six states about their antiwar views and actions. The JTTF’s measures have included visits to the homes and workplaces of antiwar activists, as well as to their friends and family members. In none of these cases was there any evidence of criminal activity—either committed or planned—on the part of the targeted individuals.

In keeping with Bush administration policy in the wake of the 9/11 terrorist attacks, the FBI claims the operation is warranted by the “war on terrorism,” and that this outweighs any abridgment of basic civil liberties, including the First Amendment right to free speech and association. The spying operation is, in fact, a revival of McCarthyite tactics, aimed at silencing opponents of government policy.

Local offices of the American Civil Liberties Union (ACLU) have reported that FBI agents throughout the US have been monitoring the daily activities of numerous political activists, whom the authorities believe are planning to protest at major political events, including the upcoming Republican National Convention.

The New York Times reported August 16 that three men in Missouri in their early 20s said they were followed by federal agents for several days in the period leading up to the Democratic convention. FBI agents visited the homes of the young men’s parents and questioned them about their sons’ political views and activities. The three had planned to drive to Boston with a St. Louis-based activist group to protest at the convention, but were prevented from doing so when they were subpoenaed to testify before a federal grand jury on July 29.

Read the rest (http://www.wsws.org/articles/2004/aug2004/fbi-a18.shtml)

1) Its rom the "World Socialist Website"... no agenda, i'm sure, and not an accredited news agency at that.

2) I fail to see any "kicked in doors", false imprisonment, or harassment

[Fidelbrand]

free everything lovers

are we? :D


a bunch of Close Minded Communists who run the site

I guess... not as closed as those cappies here (?) :huh:


And the Leftist people here why do you keep lisening to them??? Just ignore them!

what an attitude to awaken those system-entrenched-zombies~ Viva la revolution~! :ph34r:

P.S. i think you are a nice guy, but your suggestions and crownings are rather inappropriate or biased.

[Sabocat]

This is from the "tin foil hat brigade" at the Fort Worth Times.


Paying for Post-9/11 Paranoia
Those swept up locally by anxious law enforcement agencies get on with life.
By Jeff Prince and Dan Malone

Pavel Lachko and Boris Avdeev: unlikely terrorist suspects.
A wrist slap. That's the outcome of the Sept. 6 arrest of two Russian exchange students by the Arlington Police Department, an investigation by police and a Homeland Security federal agent, a county prosecutor's decision to seek charges, three months of delayed court hearings, and, finally, a judge's verdict last week.

On Jan. 8, County Criminal Court Judge Phil Sorrells dismissed the charges of criminal trespassing against Pavel Lachko and Boris Avdeev, both 22-year-old graduate students who attend the University of Texas at Arlington. The pair was facing a maximum penalty of six months in jail and up to $2,000 in fines, along with a slew of potential problems with immigration officials. The judge dismissed the charges after hearing that the students had written an apology and put in 40 hours of community service. The two thereby escaped the fates of other foreigners who have endured far-reaching consequences of running afoul of the American justice system post-9/11.

In an era of terrorist bombings, jihad, global mistrust, and general paranoia about foreigners with accents, police chose to seek charges against the students, even after an investigation showed they were legitimate guests of the country and were not even, as one cop referred to them at the arrest scene, "Palestinians."

Their crime? Lachko and Avdeev rode bicycles onto a restricted police parking lot to ask for directions to a rock-climbing gym. They quickly found themselves jailed by wary cops just days before the anniversary of the 9/11 terrorist bombings. Both students speak with heavy accents and neither carried identification.

The district attorney's office filed charges even after the students' identification and legal status were verified. The judge's decision to dismiss doesn't mean that prosecutors erred in taking them to court, said Assistant D.A. David Montague. "When you're talking about misdemeanor offenses, what we think is a just resolution involves all kinds of diversionary efforts," he said. "Many of these cases result in eventual dismissal. It doesn't mean the D.A. has lost; it means we are looking for creative ways to handle these issues."

Sometimes, a slap on the wrist is all that's needed to provide justice. "Obviously that was the case here," he said.

The Russian students were lucky. They found a support system of residents and activists who rallied behind them, enlisted free legal representation, and helped to ensure that the students maintained a clean record. But locally and nationwide, others haven't been so lucky. Fear and worry about terrorists have prompted a wide variety of arrests, knee-jerk reactions, and nose-thumbing at the Constitution.

At least three other men who were arrested in Tarrant County on what turned out to be unfounded suspicions of terrorism spent months in U.S. jails before being tossed out of the country by U.S. immigration officials.

One day after 9/11, police pulled two Indian men from an Amtrak train that had stopped in Fort Worth. The pair was packing hair dye, box-cutters, and several thousand dollars in cash -- possessions that set off alarms in a nation still reeling from the attack on the World Trade Center and the Pentagon.

As events unfolded, neither Mohammed Azmath, 38, nor Syed Gul Mohammed Shah, 37, were implicated in any terror plot -- though both were subsequently convicted of unrelated credit card fraud and were deported after spending part of two years behind bars in the U.S.

Their attorneys have said the two men were simply in the wrong place at the wrong time. The men said being wrongly suspected of terrorism left indelible stains on their lives. Eight months after being deported, Azmath told The Times of India that "even now I am looked at with suspicion.''

"I never want to return to the U.S." Shah told the Deutsche Presse-Agentur after his return to India last year. "The land of opportunity destroyed my future."

Even more disturbing is the case of Anwar Al-Mirabi, a Saudi Arabian businessman who came to the U.S. for the first time in the mid-1990s and was living and raising a family in Arlington when he was arrested on Sept. 13, 2001. Al-Mirabi spent more than nine months in a succession of jails stretching from Denton to Chicago only to ultimately be accused of nothing more serious than a minor immigration violation.

In the days after 9/11, Al-Mirabi's neighbors at an Arlington apartment complex apparently telephoned authorities with suspicions -- unfounded, it turns out -- about the Saudi businessman. When federal investigators paid him a visit, they became extremely interested in his travels through Washington and New York near the time of the terror attacks, the time he spent in Afghanistan as a young man, and his interest in a flight simulation game.

He was held as a material witness -- though witness to what was never made public -- and taken repeatedly before a grand jury to testify (about what is also unclear). Ultimately, officials decided he would not be charged with any terror-related crime. The best anyone outside the government can tell, Al-Mirabi's travels and interests that looked suspicious were just unfortunate coincidences.

In a recent e-mail to Fort Worth Weekly, Al-Mirabi said a painful infection he developed while in jail in the U.S. has led to four surgeries since he was deported. But his memories of his last months in the U.S. also remain painful. "I feel bad for Americans,'' he said. "America has lost a lot of its human rights. America used to stand for justice and be an example for the rest of the world."

The difficulty in knowing what to make of such cases stems, in part, from the secrecy with which the Bush administration has shrouded the arrests, detention, and deportation of some 700 persons, mostly Muslims or Arabs, in the months following 9/11. The government says that releasing any information about them could aid other terrorists.

The Center for National Security Studies in Washington tried to force the government to release information about those in custody, but the U.S. Supreme Court this week refused to even consider whether the government acted improperly in withholding such information.

The way the law stands leaves little hope for shining any light into what has become a virtual American gulag.

"The Justice Department is keeping the names secret to cover up its misconduct -- holding people incommunicado and without charges,'' Kate Martin, director of the security studies center, said of the high court's decision. "The cover-up maintains the fiction that the government was going after terrorists when it instead was rounding up hundreds of Arabs and Muslims."

[Capitalist Imperial]

system-entrenched-zombies

Yeah, thats it, communism is the path to idividuality, and free-markets are zombifying intitiutions

What an idiot. The USA has yielded many more well-known individuals than all of the communist nations put together, period.

But don't let the facts get in the way of a stupid, meningless comment.

[Sabocat]

I fail to see any "kicked in doors", false imprisonment, or harassment

I think it's plain to see that even though they didn't physically kick in the doors, the act of them questioning these people was pure intimidation.

I would also suggest that questioning people for no other reason than their political ideology or for suspicion of protesting, is in fact, harassment.

As far as the report of the FBI questioning....is the New York Times credible enough for you?

Inquiry Into F.B.I. Questioning Is Sought
By Eric Lichtblau
New York Times

Wednesday 18 August 2004

WASHINGTON - Several Democratic lawmakers called on Tuesday for a Justice Department investigation into the Federal Bureau of Investigation's questioning of would-be demonstrators about possible violence at the political conventions, saying the questioning may have violated the First Amendment.

In a letter to the department's inspector general seeking an investigation, the three lawmakers said the F.B.I. inquiries appeared to represent "systematic political harassment and intimidation of legitimate antiwar protesters."

Signing the letter, which was prompted by an article on Monday in The New York Times, were Representative John Conyers Jr. of Michigan, the ranking Democrat on the House Judiciary Committee, and two other Democrats on the panel, Jerrold Nadler of New York and Robert C. Scott of Virginia.

Officials at the Justice Department and the Federal Bureau of Investigation said they had not seen the letter and could not comment on its specific points. They defended the recent efforts by the bureau to question potential demonstrators around the country, saying the inquiries have been aimed solely at detecting and preventing violence at the Republican convention in New York and other major political events.

"The F.B.I. is not monitoring groups or interviewing individuals unless we receive intelligence that such individuals or groups may be planning violent and disruptive criminal activity or have knowledge of such activity," Cassandra M. Chandler, an assistant director of the bureau, said in a statement released late Monday.

After having received reports of possible violence, Ms. Chandler said, "the F.B.I. conducted interviews, within the bounds of the U.S. Constitution, in order to determine the validity of the threat information.''

"Violent acts,'' she added, "are not protected by the U.S. Constitution, and the F.B.I. has a duty to prevent such acts and to identify and bring to justice those who commit them."

In recent weeks, beginning last month before the Democratic National Convention in Boston, F.B.I. agents have contacted a number of people who have been active in political demonstrations in at least six states: Colorado, Illinois, Kansas, Massachusetts, Missouri and New York. Many of those contacted have been active in past demonstrations, and agents have

asked whether they planned acts of violence at upcoming protests, whether they knew of anyone who did and whether they realized it was a crime to withhold such information.

Three young men in Missouri were also trailed by federal agents and subpoenaed to appear before a grand jury last month to tell what they knew of protest plans, forcing them to cancel a planned trip to Boston to participate in a demonstration there.

Officials of the F.B.I. would not say how many interviews the bureau had conducted. Civil rights advocates who have monitored the process estimated that at least several dozen people had received visits from agents at their homes and elsewhere in recent weeks. They said they were continuing to collect anecdotal information from demonstrators who had been approached by federal agents.

In a newly disclosed episode in Colorado, two college students said that an F.B.I. agent approached the faculty adviser for their campus group late last month and that the agent showed photographs of the students, Mark Silverstein, legal director for the American Civil Liberties Union of Colorado, said. The students did not want their names or college disclosed, Mr. Silverstein said, because "they're really scared out of their minds."

The inquiries were made after a legal opinion in April by the Office of Legal Counsel in the Justice Department endorsed the constitutionality of past efforts by F.B.I. counterterrorism agents to solicit help from local police forces to gather intelligence on antiwar and political demonstrations. The opinion said any chilling of First Amendment rights was "quite minimal" and was "substantially outweighed" by concerns for public safety at big demonstrations.

Anthony Romero, executive director of the American Civil Liberties Union, said on Tuesday that he was troubled by the pre-emptive nature of the inquiries, which he said had deterred some demonstrators from protesting.

"This looks like it's much more about intimidation and coercion than about criminal conduct," Mr. Romero said. "It's not enough for the F.B.I. to say that there's the potential for criminal activity. That's not the legal threshold, and if that were really the case, they could investigate anybody."

Representative Conyers and his colleagues raised similar concerns in their letter. They asked the inspector general to examine internal documents at the Justice Department and F.B.I. on political protests and to determine if the inquiries "focused on actual threats of violence or merely involved legitimate political and antiwar activity."

Link (http://www.truthout.org/docs_04/081904I.shtml)

[Fidelbrand]

free-markets are zombifying intitiutions
Next time, say " You hate communism" , that would be a better way of chucking words in my mouth~ ;)


What an idiot. The USA has yielded many more well-known individuals than all of the communist nations put together, period.
Yes, stick with a tonne of AA Glue to historical facts, it does you good.

[Guest1]

Originally posted by Capitalist [email protected] 19 2004, 12:42 PM
What an idiot. The USA has yielded many more well-known individuals than all of the communist nations put together, period.
:huh:

Nazi Germany yielded one of the best-known leaders of our history, does that make Fascism better than Capitalism or Communism?

Why don&#39;t you just get out a ruler and brag about your dick instead? <_<

[gaf]

did anybody lived in the street fighting to survive here&#33;clop clop&#33;
what ever system it is ?
discution de bourgeois qui voudrais refaire le monde.
red or full of monney they are arrogants
they&#39;ll just spit on you
and believe me i know what i&#39;m talkin about
smash them all &#33;&#33;&#33;1789 II

[Y2A]

You are the dumbest poster on this board.

[gaf]

Originally posted by [email protected] 20 2004, 10:55 AM
You are the dumbest poster on this board.
you didn&#39;t see everything yet&#33;
and surely don&#39;t have to survive

[PRC-UTE]

Officially habeus corpeas has been taken away, all they have to say is you&#39;re a terrorist. Do you control anyone with that much power?

those who defend the Patriot Act and the Bush regime aren&#39;t even conservatives, they are just fascists.

And I do know of yanks who&#39;ve been harrassed by government authorities, actually.

Scum.

[Pale Rider]

disgustipated...good to see that your sources are unbiased... :lol:

[Vinny Rafarino]

Originally posted by [email protected] 20 2004, 10:55 AM
You are the dumbest poster on this board.
This was totally unnecessary.

Remember kid, you&#39;re down to one warning point.


Edit:


Never mind, keep doing what you&#39;ve been doing. :lol:

[Y2A]

Yet someone who posts this.

"you didn&#39;t see everything yet&#33;
and surely don&#39;t have to survive"

Has access to all the forums on this board.

[Vinny Rafarino]

Originally posted by [email protected] 22 2004, 02:29 AM
Yet someone who posts this.

"you didn&#39;t see everything yet&#33;
and surely don&#39;t have to survive"

Has access to all the forums on this board.
Stop whining boy.

Did you ever think that perhaps the boy does not know English very well? contrary to what they teach you in yanqui schools, the entire world does not speak English.

You&#39;re just a fucking ballbreaker kid; amd that&#39;s all you will ever be.

Rompipalle.

[Y2A]

http://www.che-lives.com/forum/index.php?showforum=24

5 spam threads created by this guy. It has nothing to do with the fact that his english isn&#39;t good.

Nuff Said.

[Vinny Rafarino]

He received a warning for spamming.

Just like you.

Now,


STOP WHINING.

Any further off topic posts will be deleted.

[Guest1]

Hehe, you rock RAF.

[Individual]

You fucking rock man&#33;

Now can I have a warning for this spam post?

What, you mean no warning? Instead your just a hypocrite?

Oh, okay.

[PRC-UTE]

If they harrass their own capitalist politicians what is it like for the average guy or gal?&#33;&#33;?


Security Official Apologizes to Kennedy



By LOLITA C. BALDOR, Associated Press Writer

WASHINGTON - A top Homeland Security official has apologized to Sen. Edward M. Kennedy (news, bio, voting record) who was stopped at airports because a name similar to his appeared on the government&#39;s no-fly list of terror suspects.


"If they have that kind of difficulty with a member of Congress, how in the world are average Americans, who are getting caught up in this thing, how are they going to be treated fairly and not have their rights abused?" Kennedy asked Homeland Security undersecretary Asa Hutchinson.


The Massachusetts Democrat said he&#39;d been misidentified on the watch list when he tried to board airliners between Washington and Boston. Kennedy said he was stopped five times as he tried to board US Airways shuttles because a name similar to his appeared on a list or his name popped up for additional screening.


Hutchinson, who apologized for "any inconvenience" to the senator, testified Thursday before the Senate Judiciary Committee (news - web sites) on the need for the federal government to take over the watch lists, which are currently administered by the airlines.


Another prominent Democratic member of Congress, Rep. John Lewis (news, bio, voting record) of Georgia, said Friday the same thing has happened to him for months. Lewis said he can&#39;t get an electronic ticket, must show extra identification and has his luggage combed through by hand.


"I said, &#39;I&#39;m the most nonviolent person to get on this plane and the most peaceful person to get on this plane,&#39;" said Lewis, a pioneer of the civil rights movement.


Lewis said one airline representative in Atlanta told him, "Once you&#39;re on the list, there&#39;s no way to get off it." Lewis said he filed a complaint with the Department of Homeland Security and even considered a lawsuit.


This week, Lewis got a call from another John Lewis — a faculty member at the University of Houston — who told him he also was on a no-fly list.


"It&#39;s weird," he said. "But I like being classed with Ted Kennedy and the congressman. It makes me feel more important."


Kennedy said he was stopped at airports in Washington, D.C., and Boston three times in March. Airline agents told him he would not be sold a ticket because his name was on a list.


When he asked the agent why, he was told, "We can&#39;t tell you."


Each time, a supervisor recognized Kennedy and got him on the flight. But after the third incident, Kennedy&#39;s staff called the Transportation Security Administration and asked to clear up the confusion.


The TSA said a name similar to Kennedy&#39;s was on the watch list, and that he was later flagged to go through additional screening. TSA also said that the airlines didn&#39;t handle the matter properly.


But twice after contacting TSA, Kennedy was stopped again at the airline counter.


The American Civil Liberties Union (news - web sites) has filed lawsuits in San Francisco and Seattle over this issue, demanding that the government explain how wrongly flagged travelers can get off the lists.


Hutchinson said that people who experience problems can call the TSA ombudsman to clear things up.

-AP

[Subversive Pessimist]

They&#39;ve also created "begging forbidden" zones (guess where? :lol: ).

I don&#39;t know... Could you please tell me?

[gaf]

Originally posted by [email protected] 22 2004, 04:38 AM
http://www.che-lives.com/forum/index.php?showforum=24

5 spam threads created by this guy. It has nothing to do with the fact that his english isn&#39;t good.

Nuff Said.
just pleased you understand it


la connerie n&#39;est que l&#39;expression de la mollesse de tes neurones

but don&#39;t worry you will learn :lol: :lol: :lol: :lol:
to live alone&#33; :ph34r: :ph34r: (and i just hope not in the street) because then i could help you :lol: :lol: :lol: :lol:

[gaf]

Originally posted by [email protected] 22 2004, 08:49 AM

I don&#39;t know... Could you please tell me?
let&#39;s guess ...... wall street. because they could get illegal concurency :lol: :lol: :lol: :lol:

[Ortega]

Somebody told me that you had a boyfriend who looks like a girlfriend that I had in February of last year. :o

It&#39;s not confidential, I&#39;ve got potential, a rushin&#39; a rushin&#39; around&#33;

[redstar2000]

"No begging zones" are, as I understand it, located at

1. Downtown business districts, including downtown public parks

2. Train and bus stations

3. Tourist areas...hotels, attractions, etc.

4. Sports stadiums and arenas

5. "Pricey" neighborhoods

The effect is to allow begging only in areas where people already have no money.

Cute.

:redstar2000:

The Redstar2000 Papers (http://www.redstar2000papers.fightcapitalism.net)
A site about communist ideas

[sparky44]

Originally posted by [email protected] 18 2004, 12:22 PM
The thing about drugs has been brought up in other threads. And the main problem is the fact that the U.S does alot of the R&D. Perhaps putting taxdollars into R&D is the solution. However, it&#39;s not fair that countries like Canada get credit for alot of drugs developed in the United States. But in general, I agree, this system set up in the states is garbage.
Canada does a fair amount of R&D as well.....I have many friends that work in research and I used to work in research as well. Yes the U.S. does a lot of R&D but so do other countries.