Lenin's imperialism

[MolotoViruS]

I would like to start a topic on the subject of the world revolution.

The question is:

Is socialism in one country possible?

Lenin states in Imperialism that due to the unequel development of capitalist country's some proletarians of one state will be ready for revolution at another period then the proletarians of another state.

On the one hand, this unequel development is a fact. We can see that Africa is backward comparing to western country's.
On the other hand, there hasn't been a single socialist revolution that could survive the terror of capital.

As a dialectical materialist I can see a contradiction in the theorie of Lenin and the cold world around us wich we call: reality.

So what's the deal?
Are we in it for a world revolution or have we already started and were Cuba and (for instance) the USSR examples for the world to follow?

[Xavier 7]

No, it's not. History has proven this wrong.

Morons.

[Daymare17]

The point is that nobody in the whole labour movement even considered this idea until 1924. Especially not Lenin, some quotes:

24th January 1918:

"We are far from having completed even the transitional period from capitalism to socialism. We have never cherished the hope that we could finish it without the aid of the international proletariat. We never had any illusions on that scoreÉ The final victory of socialism in a single country is of course impossible. Our contingent of workers and peasants which is upholding Soviet power is one of the contingents of the great world army, which at present has been split by the world war, but which is striving for unityÉ We can now see clearly how far the development of the Revolution will go. The Russian began it - the German, the Frenchman and the Englishman will finish it, and socialism will be victorious." (LCW, Vol. 26, pp. 465-72.)

8th March 1918:

"The Congress considers the only reliable guarantee of the consolidation of the socialist revolution that has been victorious in Russia to be its conversion into a world working-class revolution." (LCW, from Resolution on War and Peace, Vol. 27. p. 119.)

23rd April 1918:

"We shall achieve final victory only when we succeed at last in conclusively smashing international imperialism, which relies on the tremendous strength of its equipment and discipline. But we shall achieve victory only together with all the workers of other countries, of the whole worldÉ" (LCW, Vol. 27, p. 231.)

14th May 1918:

"To wait until the working classes carry out a revolution on an international scale means that everyone will remain suspended in mid-airÉ It may begin with brilliant success in one country and then go through agonising periods, since final victory is only possible on a world scale, and only by the joint efforts of the workers of all countries." (LCW, Vol. 27, pp. 372-3.)

29th July 1918:

"We never harboured the illusion that the forces of the proletariat and the revolutionary people of any one country, however heroic and however organised and disciplined they might be, could overthrow international imperialism. That can be done only by the joint efforts of the workers of the worldÉ We never deceived ourselves into thinking this could be done by the efforts of one country alone. We knew that our efforts were inevitably leading to a worldwide revolution, and that the war begun by the imperialist governments could not be stopped by the efforts of those governments themselves. It can be stopped only by the efforts of all workers; and when we came to power, our task É was to retain that power, that torch of socialism, so that it might scatter as many sparks as possible to add to the growing flames of socialist revolution." (LCW, Vol. 28, pp. 24-5.)

8th November 1918:

"From the very beginning of the October Revolution, foreign policy and international relations have been the main question facing us. Not merely because from now on all the states of the world are being firmly linked by imperialism into one, dirty, bloody mass, but because the complete victory of the socialist revolution in one country alone is inconceivable and demands the most active co-operation of at least several advanced countries, which do not include RussiaÉ We have never been so near to world proletarian revolution as we are now. We have proved we were not mistaken in banking on world proletarian revolutionÉ Even if they crush one country, they can never crush the world proletarian revolution, they will only add fuel to the flames that will consume them all." (LCW, Vol. 28, pp. 151-64.)

20th November 1918:

"The transformation of our Russian Revolution into a socialist revolution was not a dubious venture but a necessity, for there was no other alternative: Anglo-French and American imperialism will inevitably destroy the independence and freedom of Russia if the world socialist revolution, world Bolshevism, does not triumph." (LCW, Vol. 28, p. 188.)

15th March 1919:

"Complete and final victory on a world scale cannot be achieved in Russia alone; it can be achieved only when the proletariat is victorious in at least all the advanced countries, or, at all events, in some of the largest of the advanced countries. Only then shall we be able to say with absolute confidence that the cause of the proletariat has triumphed, that our first objective - the overthrow of capitalism - has been achieved. We have achieved this objective in one country, and this confronts us with a second task. Since Soviet power has been established, since the bourgeoisie has been overthrown in one country, the second task in to wage the struggle on a world scale, on a different plane, the struggle of the proletarian state surrounded by capitalist states." (LCW, Vol. 29, pp. 151-64.)

5th December 1919:

"Both prior to October and during the October Revolution, we always said that we regard ourselves and can only regard ourselves as one of the contingents of the international proletarian armyÉ We always said that the victory of the socialist revolution therefore, can only be regarded as final when it becomes the victory of the proletariat in at least several advanced countries." (LCW, Vol. 30, pp. 207-8.)

20th November 1920:

"The Mensheviks assert that we are pledged to defeating the world bourgeoisie on our own. We have, however, always said that we are only a single link in the chain of the world revolution, and have never set ourselves the aim of achieving victory by our own means." (LCW, Vol. 31, p. 431.)

End of February 1922:

"But we have not finished building even the foundations of socialist economy and the hostile powers of moribund capitalism can still deprive us of that. We must clearly appreciate this and frankly admit it; for there is nothing more dangerous than illusionsÉ And there is absolutely nothing terrible É in admitting this bitter truth; for we have always urged and reiterated the elementary truth of Marxism - that the joint efforts of the workers of several advanced countries are needed for the victory of socialism." (LCW, Vol. 33, p. 206.)

(taken from http://www.marxist.com/russiabook)

The theory of socialism in one country was a direct reflection of the defeat of the German Revolution in 1923 (thanks directly to Stalin and Zinoviev) and the mood of the bureaucrats who did not want revolution in other countries but wanted a nice salary building "socialism" in the USSR. Stalin represented those bureaucrats. All his terror was in defence of the bureaucratic privileges.

We all know the record of Stalinism and what it ended up in, so I wouldn't trust anything said by Stalinists. That includes the lie that Lenin was in favour of socialism in one country. If you study those quotes that Stalinist pull out then you will see that they are torn totally out of context in order to justify the reactionary theory.

[redstar2000]

The theory of socialism in one country was a direct reflection of the defeat of the German Revolution in 1923 (thanks directly to Stalin and Zinoviev)...--emphasis added.

You see, Stalin was really "the devil"...and all defeated revolutions were really "his fault".

When you have grasped this elementary "truth", then and only then are you "fit" to enter the magical kingdom of Trotskyism.

The objective material fact that the bulk of the German working class did not support proletarian revolution in 1923 (or any other year!) is just "vulgar Marxism" -- do not contaminate your thinking with such earthly concerns.

Just learn and repeat the mantra: "Stalin was the devil; it's all his fault!"

Personal villainy is so much more emotionally gratifying than historical materialism.

Easier, too.

:redstar2000:

The Redstar2000 Papers (http://www.redstar2000papers.fightcapitalism.net)
A site about communist ideas

[Daymare17]

It is a fact that there was a revolutionary crisis in 1923. The Ruhr and the inflation made the working class in its bulk look towards the Communists and revolutionary solutions. The middle class looked towards the proletariat for a way out. The bourgeoisie was helpless. All the KPD had to do was make an insurrection in Berlin and a new epoch would have begun.

Brandler, KPD leader, lost his nerve and went to Moscow for advice. If Lenin or Trotsky had been there to see him they would have insisted that the KPD begin immediate preparation for an insurrection. Particularly Trotsky with his authority as the organiser of the October insurrection could have convinced him.

But Lenin was ill and Trotsky was ill. Brandler met instead Zinoviev, who repeated his mistake of October 1917, when he had opposed the insurrection. Zinoviev in effect told Brandler to be cautious, to not provoke the reaction, etc.. Stalin didn't even care about the German revolution, since it was in the way of his intrigues in the CPSU apparat. His advice to the KPD was amazing: "Let the fascists try first!" And as a result a splendid opportunity, the kind that does not come by every day, was lost. The bourgeoisie gained the upper hand and the Communist show of impotence played a major factor in the rise of Fascism among the middle class later.

This shows the importance of the subjective factor.