Logic

[The Feral Underclass]

There seems to be ways we act and respond in relation to each other which has an underlying logic to it. These things we do naturally and without any real explination.

Example:

Man: I need to take my wife to the hospital because she has broken her leg but I have no car
Woman: I have a car, I can help you.
Man: But there are two hospitals, one is nearer but less equipped, the other is further but more equipped. The second hospital is the best option but the brake is very serious.
Woman: If your wife is in real pain then we could take her to the first hospital to relieve it a little and if needs be we can take her to the other hospital once the pain was gone.
Man: She seems to be fine if we dont move her.
Woman: So moving her the least amount of time is probably the best.
Man: yes
Woman: then I think its better to take her to the second hospital. We have a car and we will move her the least amount of times.

No matter what we do we seem to use a set of rules, which I cannot explain to make decisions about our lives. Where does this logic come from and how do you think it will effect revolutionary change?

[Pedro Alonso Lopez]

The study of the principles of reasoning, especially of the structure of propositions as distinguished from their content and of method and validity in deductive reasoning.

Essentially the practise of reason. I can't see exactly what you mean by this, I think I am missing the point here.

[The Feral Underclass]

Well, why did the man and the women come to this conclusion?

When ever you need to come to a conclusion about something or you have a conversation with anyone, there are certain rules which you follow.

The people in the conversation came to a "logical" conclusion. Why? And where do you think it comes from?

[The Feral Underclass]

Originally posted by [email protected] 16 2004, 04:42 PM
Essentially the practise of reason.
How is it determined as reason? Where did this rule come from?

[DaCuBaN]

Where does this logic come from

Does it come from anywhere? I was under the impression it's just the word assigned to a particular pattern of human thought.


how do you think it will effect revolutionary change?

I'm not certain exactly what you mean here: Again, it's just different frames of mind, some capable of reasoning revolt, others not. I'm no psychologist, nor anthropologist and so I'm in no way qualified to comment, but I mantain that it is a purely abstract construct.

[The Feral Underclass]

Originally posted by [email protected] 16 2004, 05:16 PM
Does it come from anywhere?
Well yes, otherwise it wouldnt exist.


Again, it's just different frames of mind, some capable of reasoning revolt, others not.

Not really. It's a rule that people follow, sub consciously maybe, but it is a rule they follow nevertheless.

[DaCuBaN]

Well yes, otherwise it wouldnt exist

That's my point ;) It doesn't exist - it's an abstract construct. 'Logic' is a mathematical term as well of course, and in humans (in this manner) it is used to desribe objective thought - 1+1=2, A=A and so on.

[percept¡on]

It's mathematics.

If A, then B, if B, then C. Therefore, if A, then C.

[Pedro Alonso Lopez]

TAT, it is abstract thinking as pointed out here that makes sense,

For example you apply the abstract concept of 1 to say an apple, you use a sign denoting what happens when there is another added to it designated by + and then use the one to signify an apple again and then add them, it's logically when it can be applied effectively. There really isn't much to be said on the topic.

[T_SP]

As an extremely anti-religious man, I am some what miffed by this one, the only explanation I ever heard for this was that God gave us the ability to Reason and that any argument against it was merely using this logic to reason away the very being that gave it to us! Now think about that :blink:

[Pedro Alonso Lopez]

A good way to show how we need logic is to try understand anything without reason. What logic is is just that, applying reason to the world, what it is, using logic.

It is I guess self-evident almost.

[The Feral Underclass]

I understand. This comment "it is I guess self-evident almost" is really what I am saying. How is it self-evident? It's natural for us to respond to situations in a logical way. It is interesting know why we have developed in that way.

[Valkyrie]

because people like to sit around and excessively analyse their options.

In the time that it took for those people to decide what they were going to do that woman could have reset her own leg and started pouring the plaster of paris for the cast.

Had that woman been in cardiac arrest, the husband probably would have lost all reasoning abilities and would have been running back and forth like a basket case. I witnessed something similiar to this a few weeks ago. Good thing the women only had a broken leg in this case -- she probably would have died otherwise.

What makes seemingly logical people completely lose it when they are most needed? That's what I wonder.

[The Feral Underclass]

Originally posted by [email protected] 17 2004, 07:03 AM
because people like to sit around and excessively analyse their options.

In the time that it took for those people to decide what they were going to do that woman could have reset her own leg and started pouring the plaster of paris for the cast.

Had that woman been in cardiac arrest, the husband probably would have lost all reasoning abilities and would have been running back and forth like a basket case. I witnessed something similiar to this a few weeks ago. Good thing the women only had a broken leg in this case -- she probably would have died otherwise.
:lol:

You make a good point.

[Wenty]

surely as an existentialist TAT you wouldn't believe in anything really having a 'set of rules' which we abide by, you reject determinism.

[Guest1]

They're loose guidelines, but they're there. You can find it in Sociology and Psychology, people do follow patterns and guidelines loosely.

[The Feral Underclass]

Originally posted by [email protected] 17 2004, 10:50 AM
surely as an existentialist TAT you wouldn't believe in anything really having a 'set of rules' which we abide by, you reject determinism.
Have I ever claimed to be an existentialist. There are many aspects of the philosophy which I feel and understand.

There seems to be a set form of logic people follow when making decisions. Maybe I am wrong I don't really know the answers, or whether this logic actually exists. I'm open to be shown different.

[Guest1]

I'm open to slapping you with the back of my hand...

[Pedro Alonso Lopez]

Ok by self evident I mean that if you have one thing and there is another one thing and you add them you get two, this process if what we call a logical one because it follows, thats why it is self evident, because it works in practise.

[Karo Viyuri]

A man possessing only one watch is certain of the time,whereas were he to possess two there would be an element of doubt.

[antieverything]

Our brains have evolved to solve specific types of problems. The way we think about these problems is largely an evolutionary development, this is to say that logic is partly hard-wired into us.

[The Feral Underclass]

If that's the case it's extremly interesting. If what you are saying is true, it means that every human being has the potential to understand complicated theory and be able to logically put it into practice.

[antieverything]

That is exactly the case, TAT!

One of the breakthroughs that made up the Chomskian revolution in linguistic thought (yes, named after our friend Noam Chomsky) is that all people have an inate ability to learn language and all human language operates by similar rules as a result!

[che's long lost daughter]

Logical thinking is controlled by the brain's left hemisphere.

[Wenty]

how does knowing that help this debate though?

antieverything - wasn't it that chomsky said we all had an innate ability to grasp grammar, 'universal grammar' as he called it. It was because he couldn't account for how we know the rules of grammar so well.

[PRC-UTE]

Interesting topic.

Suggests that humans have a complex and sophisticated ability to comprehend - human nature. Something that many marxists have rejected, ineterestingly enough.

I often think the marxist view of humanity borders on behavioralism.

[T_SP]

I guess it is in built, but if a kid burns themselves they don't automatically think I won't do that again because very often they will go back and burn themselves, on the other hand it is not something you can be taught. :blink: :blink: So we MUST have an in built thing that we devlop as we learn and have experiences.

[gaf]

no answer from where it's coming from but something comic about


M. de la Palisse est mort,
Mort devant Pavie
Un quart d'heure avant sa mort
Il était encore en vie!

sire de la pallisse is dead
dead in front of pavie
15 minuts before his dead
he was alive


from a known comics 16 century
links french speaking
http://perso.club-internet.fr/bmarcore/Tine/E171.htm

[monkeydust]

Why use logic?

I'd suggest that people use logic in reasoning, simply because it actually works, in practise, to achieve a desired result.

In your initial example, TAT, the two characters began with the aim of alleveating the pain and suffering of the wife with the broken leg in the shortest possible time span. Their logical deductions following simply sought to achieve that aim.

Antieverthing was right, in that logic may well be inherent in humans to solve actual problems, because it works.