Are you Active?

[Tondbert]

Are you Active?
What do you do?

Hey,
I know that pretty much everyone on this forum claims to be a leftwing supporter however its fine to talk the talk but who actually follows it through?
How many of you wears branded clothes from capitalist clothing companies?
How many of you play sport with balls made by suppressed workers?
How many of you eat in MacDonalds?

What are we doing to even help? We sohludn't be involving ourselves in all the big industries if needs be. Buy illegal copies of dvds and tapes. Buy your lunch from the market stalls, or small companies. Hell, you could even grow some vegetables. Download music instead of buying cds. And watch state owned tv channels, I mean the BBC is pretty much nationalised, we pay for it with our tax unlike the other channels who get their money by advertising, advertising the fat arse capitalist companies! On your next trip aboard, bring back food if your customs office will allow it. I know I'm not perfect but I'm going to try to avoid well know consumer goods and other stuff. Why don't you give it a try and show us what you're made of?

Oh and whilst I on the subject, can people who are doing any of the above stuff already drop a message on this thread. Thanks for listening to me, know I'm a bore.

Tondbert

[YKTMX]

The "activity" you've described is purely middle-class "self sacrifice". It is not activism. Activism is being involved in social movements, arguing and debating with ordinary people and seeking to actively change the world. It isn't defined by the types of the clothes you wear. A socialist can wear what he likes as long as he stays true to his political and theoritical beliefs.

Put it this way, do the "capitalists" prefer someone who doesn't buy their shoes, or do they prefer someone who wins 10 more people over to the viewpoint that they should be overthrown?

[Louis Pio]

I sometimes wears clothes like that moreover I sometimes buy coca cola.

Now I don't see what influence that should have on my political commitment, we live in a capitalist society and can't place ourselves outside of it. Sometimes some of us even work for those companies to make a living.
Boycots are useless in my oppinion.
Now what I do is this, write articles, doing solidarity work (venezuela mostly), standing in pickets, educating people, agitating etc etc. I find those things more usefull than consumer boycots.

[BOZG]

Teis and YKTMX have pretty much answered everything for me. This post once again raises this whole idea of regressing our social standards, that we should for some reason we should stop trying to increase our living standards in order to sacrifice ourselves for no apparent reason (within sensible limits). The liberal left and many so called communists are riddled with this idea that having nice clothes or consumer goods is the most evil thing you can do. It is the duty of socialists to raise all people to these standards and higher, not to lower everyone's standard to be the same.

[Tondbert]

As a leftwing person I argue and debate with ordinary people, that just happens, our of curiosity to how they think stuff should be and of course, I will argue my case and some people will turn to our side. But, well, put it this way, what would you think of Castro if he was sat in MacDonalds? Its just something that would be completely wrong. You cant be out there, fighting for revolution, protesting against capitalism and then going home on an evening and going shopping for branded clothes, branded foods and so forth. To me it just seems like you believe all these things yet outside your activism you just act like the rest of the opposition. What is the need for labelled clothes? Makes you 'cool' or 'popular'? They dont matter. Okay I can understand how you would prefer branded foods to others because of the taste and such, thats why they are popular but really its just selfish. Okay sure, we work, you pay for the food and you're happy. But you're only buying that food caus you like it, if you know what I mean, you don't need it.
You dont need offical cds or offical dvds and videos. Why would you possibly want to keep all the media companies as the upperclass, caus after all singers and actors dont see that much of the money that goes through the music and dvd industry.
I didnt mean to sound that you shouldn't be doing what you're doing. You should just be boycotting at the same time. Read up on the suppressed workers by the way, the coffee bean harvesters in Africa, the Nike workers and everything like that. It goes against what you stand you. You want a revolution? You want a leftist society? Doesnt that mean you dont want suppressed workers, you want equality? Boycott in order to get companies to give better rights to their workers. If everyone is selfish and says they're already doing their part by debating then these workers will say suppressed and the companies wont give a shit about the odd couple of people who are boycotting. We need a really big boycott, just like occassionally we need strikes. Consider it...

[BOZG]

People do actually enjoy nice things, believe it or not and are entitled to them. Sacrificing your living standards in order to make yourself believe that you're more of a revolutionary is a ridiculous idea, like all boycotts in the majority of cases.

[YKTMX]

But, well, put it this way, what would you think of Castro if he was sat in MacDonalds?

Not much less than I think of him now.

Of course there is a place for boycotting companies at particular times for particular activites. For instance, I was recently boycotting Coca-Cola for their part in the murder of Union leaders in Colombia. Now, for me, this was just a personal act of conscience. I didn't think it was going to affect the the international policies of a trillion dollar company. I would rather argue WHY Coca-Cola murders Union leaders and how it gets away with it. That is the real battle.

[Tondbert]

Okay guys, you&#39;ve got me. i dunno, I&#39;m pretty new to all of this and I suppose I trying to find a way to support leftist beliefs and such. I&#39;m too young to be flying off to other countries to demonstrate, and I dont have the money even to get down to London for some of the socialist conferences. Sitting on my computer talking to other leftists is great but its not doing much, I mean, the whole point in us being here is that we are already leftists so we arent gaining people. And people who join here, they arent generally new members because of us, they just happened to turn out that way and searched for other leftists to talk to. I mean, what can I do for Venezuela? I would love to help but I feel kind of helpless being 16, in England, and about to start college. <sighs> :(

[YKTMX]

:) Our goal wasn&#39;t to demoralise you comrade. You have a conscience and are sensitive to the issues, that&#39;s a great fucking start&#33; What I would advise you to do is read as much as possible about the issues and people you&#39;re interested in and look around and see if any of the socialist parties out there support your beliefs.

[Counter-Corporate Jujitsu]

How many of you wears branded clothes from capitalist clothing companies?
Unless we go around naked, what else should we do?


How many of you play sport with balls made by suppressed workers? I hate team sports. They&#39;re just another ploy for the capitalists to make money. I prefer running and hiking.


How many of you eat in MacDonalds?
I ate there twice: once when I was around 6 and again when I was 9.


What are we doing to even help?
I operate a website and circulate petitions, &#39;zines etc. I also donate money when possible.


You could even grow some vegetables
I do this.


Download music instead of buying cds.
And this.


On your next trip aboard, bring back food if your customs office will allow it.
They don&#39;t, but we usually sneak some by.

[Tondbert]

Pretty cocky there, ain&#39;t you?

[Kez]

Tondbert, i take it ur from the UK, whereabouts u from?

[Invader Zim]

I work 9 hours a day for a charity I believe in supporting, they pay me next to nothing (quite literally it averages just over £1 per hour). I do this because I want to see the horrors of WW2 remembered and the people who helped defeat Nazism remembered. Its not exactly gripping all important, but i&#39;m no che-guevara. :P

[BOZG]

Originally posted by [email protected] 12 2004, 09:02 PM
Tondbert, i take it ur from the UK, whereabouts u from?
North East somewhere.

[Palmares]

Boycotting isn&#39;t bad, but it must be realised that it shouldn&#39;t be the fundamental goal of the left. We live in a capitalist system, thus we can only work within it.

If you live in a commune it may be different.

Depending on where you live, try joining a emailing list of your local leftist group and participate it their politicla actions if possible.

[apathy maybe]

Yes.

What I do.
1) Don't buy or wear brand names.
2) I go to actions. \
3) I help organise actions. - All these three things as part of a masturbating collective. We have branded dildos.
4) I run a email list. /
5) I write on money.
6) I attempted to educate people.
7) etc.

[Palmares]

Originally posted by apathy [email protected] 13 2004, 02:58 PM
7) etc.
Same here. :lol:

I would tend to agree with apathy forever. You don&#39;t need to join political groups, but helping them is a great way of getting involved.

[apathy maybe]

etc involves killing people, grand larceny (not that I know what it is), dope dealing, etc.

We now have control of half the city.

[Hiero]

While i think boycots are hopeless i think we could all atleast support the local food shops. Like i wont go to maccas if i can get a pie or some chips.

[h&s]

I think the important thing you need to do is to join a local socialist organisation, and take some real action.

What are we doing to even help? We sohludn&#39;t be involving ourselves in all the big industries if needs be. Buy illegal copies of dvds and tapes.
Yes, but then you get the dilemna; do I want to buy my videos and DVD&#39;s off a big, evil capitalist company, or do I want to buy them off organised criminals? Download them. That way you bypass capitalism, or just wait untill they come on the TV and record them, like I do....(yes I know you have to wait about 10 years, but hey&#33;)
Oh yeah, I do drink Coke, but its too damn good (well it isn&#39;t, but I have yet to find a shitty soft drink that is better) not to. We can always nationalise the factories when we get into power... :D

[Djehuti]

Originally posted by [email protected] 12 2004, 03:44 PM
Are you Active?
What do you do?

Hey,
I know that pretty much everyone on this forum claims to be a leftwing supporter however its fine to talk the talk but who actually follows it through?
How many of you wears branded clothes from capitalist clothing companies?
How many of you play sport with balls made by suppressed workers?
How many of you eat in MacDonalds?

What are we doing to even help? We sohludn&#39;t be involving ourselves in all the big industries if needs be. Buy illegal copies of dvds and tapes. Buy your lunch from the market stalls, or small companies. Hell, you could even grow some vegetables. Download music instead of buying cds. And watch state owned tv channels, I mean the BBC is pretty much nationalised, we pay for it with our tax unlike the other channels who get their money by advertising, advertising the fat arse capitalist companies&#33; On your next trip aboard, bring back food if your customs office will allow it. I know I&#39;m not perfect but I&#39;m going to try to avoid well know consumer goods and other stuff. Why don&#39;t you give it a try and show us what you&#39;re made of?

Oh and whilst I on the subject, can people who are doing any of the above stuff already drop a message on this thread. Thanks for listening to me, know I&#39;m a bore.

Tondbert
There is no such as a "capitalist company". Every company, whatever today is capitalist. And boycotts is really liberal crap, it doesnt work. There is companies that are worse then others, but they are all capitalists and under the same condition they would also do the same thing. I will never dress in rags and eat trash.

Well, i download everything i can download, I steal as much as possible and so on.
Cause it is cheaper that way. Well, I think the left should do much more usefull stuff then choose wich products to consume, or build big partys whatever.

[percept¡on]

Boycotts are for Christians and hippies; but anti-consumerism is good. Don&#39;t target an individual company, just free youself from the consumer culture in general.

[Louis Pio]

I mean, what can I do for Venezuela? I would love to help but I feel kind of helpless being 16, in England, and about to start college. <sighs>

Well for a start you could contact the campaign http://www.handsoffvenezuela.org
Especially on a college it should be possible to set up a solidarity group on Venezuela, discussing the situation, telling others about it and holding public meetings.
It&#39;s my impression that people on a college is open to thees kind of things.

[wet blanket]

Well, I don&#39;t eat fast food or drink sodas, and none of the clothing I wear is covered in logos or any of that garbage.

The absolute BEST thing you could do would be to join the IWW( http://iww.org ) and try to unionize your workplace. As was said several times, boycotts are pointless unless they&#39;re on an enormous scale. Organization of the working class is probably the most important form of activism there is, in my opinion.

[The Sloth]

I wear capitalist-brand clothing.

I buy CD&#39;s.

No, I don&#39;t eat at McDonald&#39;s.

No, I don&#39;t wear jewelry, except some fake earrings.



All of that is un-important. I focus on research, activism, talking to others in hopes of educating them, etc. I plan to go into a career that has some serious potential profits, but then again, I know for a fact I won&#39;t be living a life of excess. I already told myself, I&#39;m getting a medium-sized apartment or house in New York City and live a life of comfort (a.k.a. not worrying about paying the bills). I don&#39;t plan on buying extra clothes, or jewelry, etc. (I refuse the money given to me for such things right now, anyway)

I plan on giving much of my money to my family that would like a life of luxury, and to leftist movements. I personally don&#39;t care for the same things as the rest of my family does.

My only weakness is music....if I make good money as an adult, trust me, that is one thing I will have an excess of :P

[PRC-UTE]

I think some of what Tondbert said is useful. There&#39;s an ongoing campaign against McDonalds that is international in scope and has forced the company to change some of its policies. Also there&#39;s nothing wrong with growing some of your own food and learning more about that hands on, the diy lifestyle, a small experience outside of alienation.

But a lifestyle isn&#39;t revolutionary. As Wet Blanket said, get involved with the IWW or, if you can&#39;t for some reason directly take part in struggle for whatever reason, support groups.

It&#39;s good to see that a lot of young people are paying attention to what&#39;s going on&#33;