Cuba's Future

[Tondbert]

CUBA'S FUTURE

Hey Everyone, just writing to find out what everyone thinks about the future of Cuba after Castro. We all know that Fidel Castro will not be around forever, likewise with Raul (for those of you who would suggest Raul coming to power) but the question is, what will become of Cuba after the Castro brothers?

Will America intervene? Will a Cuban be elected? And then what?

Over to you...

Tondbert

[__ca va?]

Quite obviously, socialism will collapse and American capital will buy the whole country... <_< Things will be the same as they were before the revolution
I can hardly imagine that America will let a communist succession in an island 50 miles away from its coasts...

[Pawn Power]

It will develope in to a democratic socialist state and eventually into full communism. At least thats what I like to belive.

[Cheech06]

Trust me....its not goin to happen. Its not even happening right now, and Castro is a great leader. The U.S. will democratize Cuba.

[Guerrilla22]

Originally posted by [email protected] 11 2004, 02:33 AM
Trust me....its not goin to happen. Its not even happening right now, and Castro is a great leader. The U.S. will democratize Cuba.
The US doesn&#39;t democracize any of the places it rolls into, it turns them into dependents under their control, which is what is going to happen to Cuba (once again) if the Cuban government doesn&#39;t formulate a strategy to keep the US out. Peopl outside of Cuba should take a stand to, start something to handsoffvenezuela.org.

[__ca va?]

Trust me....its not goin to happen. Its not even happening right now, and Castro is a great leader. The U.S. will democratize Cuba.

Could you show me a Latin-American nation that has been democratized by the US? Nicaragua, Honduras, Bolivia and of course Cuba before the revolution: has America democratized these countries?


It will develope in to a democratic socialist state and eventually into full communism. At least thats what I like to belive.

That&#39;s what I like to believe too, but that doesn&#39;t change the fact that this won&#39;t happen :(

[CubanFox]

Originally posted by __ca [email protected] 11 2004, 07:28 PM
Could you show me a Latin-American nation that has been democratized by the US? Nicaragua, Honduras, Bolivia and of course Cuba before the revolution: has America democratized these countries?
I believe the comrade was using the term in a more ironic sense.

Well, that&#39;s what I think he meant. The post was rather nonsensical.

[Sabocat]

Originally posted by [email protected] 10 2004, 08:50 PM
It will develope in to a democratic socialist state and eventually into full communism. At least thats what I like to belive.
I hate to break it to you, but the next natural step from democratic socialist is to full capitalist, not communism. ;)

I&#39;m sure that Cuba has prepared for Fidels eventual demise. Raul is more of a hard liner Communist than Fidel, and even after Raul goes, I&#39;m sure that they have someone in mind.

I don&#39;t believe the U.S. will just be able to waltz in and take over. I think there is too much loyalty and pride in the revolution for the people to just roll over and submit.

[Louis Pio]

I don&#39;t believe the U.S. will just be able to waltz in and take over. I think there is too much loyalty and pride in the revolution for the people to just roll over and submit.

What it&#39;s going to depend on is what attitude some of the CP members take. Now am perfectly sure that some of them wouldn&#39;t mind capitalism if they themselves could become capitalists. But there also is another wing in the communist party, who are willing to defend the revolution and take it further. The thing is though that Cuba can&#39;t be on it&#39;s own forever, that&#39;s why they need to be more involved in revolutionary movements in Latin America, instead of telling them not to build socialism (as Castro said to Chavez at some point).

[Pawn Power]

I hate to break it to you, but the next natural step from democratic socialist is to full capitalist, not communism.

too-shay

[fernando]

The people are poor and the US already has plans what to do there when Castro is gone, I watched this documentary about that yesterday, US companies are already studying how to operate after Castro falls, big hotel companies have already taken parts of the beaches, Mac Donalds has already done similar research.

Oh yah...it also showed some stuff about this group of terrorists called Alpha 66, these guys are preparing to kill Castro and the Cuban government and will start a new Revolution there with the "support of the people" or something....

I thought we (Western World) was in war against terrorism...should we be hunting down these morons then or something?

[Tondbert]

Alpha 66, huh? Never heard of them before.
And if they wanting to take down Castro then America won&#39;t even attempt shutting them down until Castro is gone and they are getting out of hand. America keeps alive organisations that will help them, I mean, look at Bin Laden. He worked for America against Russia in the ColdWar, didn&#39;t he? And now he isn&#39;t need (after Soviet Fall) he suddenly becomes a massive enemy to the United States. I dunno...America only defends its best interests, after all it is the fattest cat of them all. :angry:

:castro: Long live Castro :castro:
Long live Revolution
:cuba: Long live Cuba :cuba:

[fernando]

I know the US wont do jack shit against them, because terrorists who fight for the US are ok, so the US is kind of double sided here...they are in war against terrorism while supporting terrorists

[Tondbert]

I sure hope no misled Americans are thinking that Mr.Bush will get rid of terrorism. I mean, its like trying to get rid of murder or petty theft, its impossible. People will always oppose countries, nations, religions and so on, and for every hundred that will sit around going &#39;Oh,yeah, america sucks&#39; there will be a good amount of people willing to take action and attack and revolt and such. &#39;War on Terror&#39; or &#39;Search of Wealth&#39;?

Anyhow, little off topic for this thread.
In another thread I read about some guy visiting Cuba, he said that alot of people supported Castro and were proud of the revolution. From what he described it certainly sounds like the people will most certainly stand up against America. However I think it might be a take-over in the sense that no-one notices until its too late. Like Fernado mentioning big hotel companies and MacDonalds moving in and such. Seems like a pretty shitty situation. And to be honest I think Castro has a right to be as paranoid as he is.

[YKTMX]

It will probably collapse without American intervention. It&#39;s own corruption and bureaucracy will be it&#39;s downfall.

[Political Suicide]

Based on my own experience living in Cuba, i find it hard to believe that it will just collapse and become another american puppet. While cuban&#39;s are of course not happy about their economic situation, they blame the United States and most are not willing to allow them to be part of the solution. There is great pride amogst cubans, and still to this day, most of them will go to graves before they go to McDonalds.

[fernando]

I read somewhere that about 60% of the young people want to leave Cuba and start a new (and maybe better) life in the US, they are fed up with the revolutionairy speeches and dogmas they get fed every day.

These poor kids havent fought the Revolution, they dont know how it was like, they are not that connected to that whole struggle and just want to live like the richer kids in the Western world.

[Tondbert]

Guess they aren&#39;t connected at all to the revolution but I&#39;m guessing those who reach America regret it, especially when they&#39;re not the rich people they expected to turn into.
You have to give up greed when you turn to the left-side of politics, I mean you cant expect equality if you want to be rich and you cant go around thinking your better than everyone else. These young Cubans have to work out what they want from life, just like we have, we dont want to stand for suppressed workers, we dont like the way country is run and so on and so forth. Guess we can&#39;t expect every cuban to be pro-leftwing just like we know that not everyone in America and England (and the rest of the world pretty much) are capitalist. Of course we&#39;re going to lose some people on our way but if we carry on strong nothing can stop us.

We are the next generation. After us there will be another generation. And so on...
And therefore,

Socialism will Never Die
Communism will Never Die
And in our hearts,
Castro will always be alive
Lennin is alive
Trotsky is alive
Allende is alive
Che is alive
And yes, even Stalin lives on

[fernando]

hmm...if 60% of you young people do leave Cuba there will be some serious problems, I mean that means that a huge part of the young generation is gone and the old people and a small group of young people remain.

I mean, current Western politics are worried about the "lack" of young people in the future, since the entire "baby-boom-generation" from after WW2 will be retiring then. And they dont have 60% of their younger generation running away.
Then imagine what it could do to Cuba...


You have to give up greed
These kids have nothing, and they want something, they see people in the US making money, that is what they want, not to work their asses off for a bunch of food coupons, they want to make money, and are willing to work their asses off for it. The problem with communism is that everybody gets the same, doesnt matter how hard you work, you get the same amount of money or food coupons. In capitalism (in theory) you get rewarded for hard work, the harder you work, the more you get, that is what these kids want. Not some utopia which has never worked before in history to which they dont feel connected at all to.

Dont get me wrong...Im not pro US or anything, but I think communism has its limitations and people dont want it (only a small group of idealists, or commies who are getting rich from it, leaders n stuff)

[Nothing Human Is Alien]

Cubans can hardly blame Socialism for their poor economic state when some neighboring &#39;democratic&#39; states are the same or even worse off then them.

[Shane]

I dont like to think this way, but what i imagine is Cuba could even cave in on itsself due to its own corruption. Once Castro and Raul have gone, America wont just walse in and &#39;&#39;take over&#39;&#39; its not THAT simple, what i can see happening is a US backed Coup, A Counter Revolution and then walk in.

Or Cuba could become a Democratic Socialist state depending on who would take over, Or remain a Hard-line Socialist state with some (hopeful) Democratic refroms, time will tell...i hope the latter happens.

[InfinitaPaciencia]

wouldn&#39;t it be good to think that maybe Cuba has already thought of this. Im ready to go back to Cuba and do something. I mean, what with the war going on and if Fidel were to die soon (knocks on wood) and there isn&#39;t a strong successor it will be inevitable. It&#39;s like a billionaire is about to die and his family is just itching to get the inheritance. and the sour ex-wife (US) is just faking being nice to pounce after the guy croaks. Especially now with El Jefe being ill and all. :angry: But I&#39;ll die before I let the US get their clammy hands on our Island.

[fernando]

I like what you said, you have some spirit in you, hopefully you could live up to those words :)

However, the US has been planning this since the 50/60ies probably, how to handle after Castro has been taken care of.

There are plenty or terrorist groups in Florida waiting to go there and cause more instability after Castro is gone, big US companies have already planned what parts of Cuba they are going to take.

The US could directly invade if Castro is still alive, they would just make some story like they always do. If he would be dead they would just cause more instability and they would then come in as the "saving friend"

[InfinitaPaciencia]

:cuba: it just makes me sick to my stomach that such things would occur. Im physically sick because I feel like a bystander. I went to Dominican Republic and almost got arrested. Im a US Citizen and in DR I was hosting a sort of relay for Cubans in America where ppl in the US sent me the things they wish to send to Cuba, then I&#39;d send them to Cuba from DR. Things got really big so we had to shut down the operation. Now Im getting into the funk where I feel that the inevitable will happen and that the almost 50 years will have been in vain&#33; :unsure:

[Commie Girl]

The people we talked to in Cuba believe that the sucession is taken care of and when we asked what they thought of the U&#036; taking over, ALL of them said they would fight to the death to protect the revolution and their autonomy&#33;

[InfinitaPaciencia]

Originally posted by [email protected] 14 2004, 03:07 AM
The people we talked to in Cuba believe that the sucession is taken care of and when we asked what they thought of the U&#036; taking over, ALL of them said they would fight to the death to protect the revolution and their autonomy&#33;
Eso&#33; Hasta la Victoria Siempre&#33; :D Those are the kinds of things I like to hear from my ppl.

"Seguiremos adelante...como junto a ti seguimos...Y con Cuba te decimos...Hasta Siempre Commandante&#33;"

[dadachango69]

...but, hasn&#39;t Cuba already installed Socialism as a permanent form of gov&#39;t... in their own Constitution?

[Subversive Pessimist]

The thing is though that Cuba can&#39;t be on it&#39;s own forever, that&#39;s why they need to be more involved in revolutionary movements in Latin America, instead of telling them not to build socialism (as Castro said to Chavez at some point).

I just need to understand this clearly.... Castro said that they need to be involved in revolutionary movements in Latin America? I know Cuba has had a lot of military advicers and soldiers in Africa (an estimated 60 000, at one point) to FARC, but have the government itself supported guerilla movements in Latin America in terms of arms? Has Chaves supported any revolutions in Latin America?

[gaf]

just wait and look
make the revolution by(in) yoursef in this autistis world will make you understand what revolution mean.

[Subversive Pessimist]

What is that supposed to mean? :huh:

[gaf]

is everything i try to say criptic?
i realy feel like a stranger in this world and i think che feld that also thats why he got away from fidel
do you know what autisme is?

[Colombia]

Originally posted by [email protected] 14 2004, 06:56 PM

I just need to understand this clearly.... Castro said that they need to be involved in revolutionary movements in Latin America? I know Cuba has had a lot of military advicers and soldiers in Africa (an estimated 60 000, at one point) to FARC, but have the government itself supported guerilla movements in Latin America in terms of arms? Has Chaves supported any revolutions in Latin America?
I have read that the Cubans trained men to go off and fight against Trujillo in the DR and also sent some men to Nicaraugua(which they eventually won).Chavez has shown some sympathy to guerillas in Colombia.

[dadachango69]

Originally posted by [email protected] 12 2004, 10:56 AM
Alpha 66, huh? Never heard of them before.
And if they wanting to take down Castro then America won&#39;t even attempt shutting them down until Castro is gone and they are getting out of hand. America keeps alive organisations that will help them...
Long live Revolution
:cuba: Long live Cuba :cuba:
http://www.alpha66.org/english/our%20history.htm

[dadachango69]

Originally posted by [email protected] 13 2004, 11:07 PM
The people we talked to in Cuba believe that the sucession is taken care of and when we asked what they thought of the U&#036; taking over, ALL of them said they would fight to the death to protect the revolution and their autonomy&#33;
I have lived in Cuba off and on... I have always gotten that impression. They are not the "prisoners of conscience" as they are painted to be. It&#39;s funny, unless you go there and stay among the people, you won&#39;t ever know how they truly feel. While their government isn&#39;t perfect, it is what THEY want. I hardly think the U.S. can go in there and overthrow their Constitution. The U.S. would not dare be that bold... they would look like the terrrorists they say everyone else is.

[InfinitaPaciencia]

Originally posted by [email protected] 14 2004, 09:47 PM
I have read that the Cubans trained men to go off and fight against Trujillo in the DR and also sent some men to Nicaraugua(which they eventually won).Chavez has shown some sympathy to guerillas in Colombia.
You are very much correct mi amigo...My mother was in DR in 1965 and she told me that there were plenty of Cubans scatterred there. Eso Cuba&#33; Arriba FIdel&#33; :P

[Louis Pio]

I just need to understand this clearly.... Castro said that they need to be involved in revolutionary movements in Latin America? I know Cuba has had a lot of military advicers and soldiers in Africa (an estimated 60 000, at one point) to FARC, but have the government itself supported guerilla movements in Latin America in terms of arms? Has Chaves supported any revolutions in Latin America?

I don&#39;t think Cuba has many people out now. That seems to be all in the past. Anyway my point was that Castro at one point told Chavez not to build socialism but continue the present line. That would quite clearly result in the bolivarian revolutions demise at some point. I think a bit of the problem is that Castro just sees things in terms of Cuban foreign policy instead of looking at how to spread socialism (which would actually be the best thing for Cuba)

[Nothing Human Is Alien]

About Cuba training Dominicans I tried to roughly translate this from Salón Revolucionario Dominicano (http://www.geocities.com/cuyaya2/revolucion/caamano.html) about the 1973 guerilla invasion of Playa Caracoles by Francisco Caamaño:

"At the end of January of 1973, a group of nine Dominican revolutionaries weighed anchor from the Caribbean island of Guadalupe in a yacht called the Black East Jak. was led by colonel Francisco Caamaño, that was the most outstanding figure of the revolution that took place in Santo Domingo in April of year 1965. These revolutionaries all, in the previous years, received military training in Cuba with the purpose of organizing a guerrilla expedition that had the objective to overthrow the regime of then president Joaquin Balaguer. "

Cuba was forced to cut back support (at least visible support) of revolutionary groups in the rest of the world because of the possible agression it had/could have incited from the capitalist nations.

[Pedro Alonso Lopez]

I think people need to remember that the idea of Cuban nationalism is central to the revolution, sovereignity being the main barrier during the economic crises on the 60&#39;s,70&#39;s that they faced.

Cuba is unique in that their revolution was foremost to get rid of dependence and assert their sovereignity before deciding that socialism was the way forward. Even the Marxist-Leninist model wasn&#39;t adopted initially.

The Cuban people know what the U.S. is responsible for.

[duk]

first of all can some1 tell me who is raul n give me some info about him&#33; how many us soldiers are in cuba now? why did they choose guantanamo to put the alquaida prisoners? isnt a shame 4 cuba ? why the daughter of fidel castro hate his regime n fight against it? are the maj. of cubian with fidel casto? i hope that cuba will stay comunist forever&#33; only the cubian can secure that&#33; VIVA LA REVOLUTION&#33; VIVA FIDEL CASTRO&#33;

[socialistfuture]

I don&#39;t think the communist goverment in Cuba can last much longer, the people have had to little for too long. I just read a real harsh book on Cuba.

On the other hand all theCubans I have met have loved Cuba and Castro.

I think change is comming and nothing can stop it. The tourism apartheid is causing inequality and prejudice. It is my belief that the governement there needs to trust the people more and be less autocratic.

The embargo must fall - probably not before Castro dies. I think the next leader will be very different. Who knows -

while I don&#39;t defend what the yanks have done to Cuba I do not have full support for the Cuban Government.

power to the people&#33;