monkeydust
10th August 2004, 01:15
Sorry about this, but I wrote an extensive reply only to find that the thread had been trashed before I could post it.
Anyway, to bdw:
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Wow, for someone with an IQ of 144 you're really pretty dense aren't you, bdw. You could probably do with a History lesson, but hopefully this response will suffice, for now.
Over the past couple of days I've spent here, I've seen many say that Hitler was right wing, a capitalist, etc. I will now demonstrate that Hitler was no capitalist, but socialist, and anyone who still disagrees in the end is apparently on crack.
On crack yes; but at least not a fool.
A political philosopher friend of mine, who was once banned from this site, compiled this list. Does anyone remember a character named "Stories4u"? Since he is unable to be here I have taken the liberty to post this information. Enjoy...
What a slick way to say "copy and paste"!
The term Nazi stood for National Socialist Workers Party
Really?!?!
I think everyone here knows the party's name, in German, National Sozialistiche Deutsche Arbeiter Party (I think).
Unlike you, however, most of us are able to actually look at the reasons why that was the name, rather than assuming that it was a logical expression of Hitler's ideology.
The Name was coined in February 1920, long before Hitler even became leader of the party. At the time the party did embody "Socialist" elements, though Hitler himself was no keen proponent of them.
The name remained for three key reasons:
In the first place it was simply not worth changing the name. It had become a term familiar to a number of Germans, to change would not have made much sense, causing unnecessary disruption.
Secondly, many in the party (though not Hitler) were Socialists, of a kind. To keep the party more or less united, Hitler maintained the pretension that the party was, in some ways, "Socialist"; to do otherwise would have split the party in its infancy.
Thirdly, the Nazi party was always about wide appeal. The National Socialist ideology was such that it cut across traditional divides and sectional interests. Hitler liked to emphasize the Socialist side of Nazism in order to gain support of the workers (though he largely failed in that respect).
Have you ever seen the planks of the Nazi party? If you have, why aren't you able to make the connection?
The 25 point programme? Yes, I have seen it, but unlike you I understand it within its historical context.
Here are a few of them, I will omit the ones regarding treaties and such:
Nice to see that you've ommited all the Nationalist ones as well. <_<
Anyway, like the name NSDAP, the 25 point programme was written up in February 1920. Hitler was involved, though perhaps the principal author of the programme was Anton drexler. It is notable that, according to all historical reports, Hitler pushed for the implementation of the Nationalist points. Among them:
"We demand land and territory to feed our people and settle our growing population"
"Only members of the nation may be citizens of the State. Only those of german blood, whatever their creed, may be members of the nation. Accordingly, no Jew may be a member of the nation.
There are others but these should suffice. They do not sound like conservative ideals, do they?
No they don't, but did Hitler ever actually implement the Socialist elements of the 25 point programme.
Did he abolish incomes unearned by work? Not really.
Did he nationalize a great number of industries? Not particularly.
Did he enforce profit sharing in Big businesses? NO.
Hitler retorted angrily, "I am a Socialist," and he meant it.
My arse!
Hitler got his money from the same place that Lenin and the Bolsheviks did: from international bankers. When Otto Strasser accused Hitler of wanting to strangle the socialist revolution 'for the sake of legality and a new collaboration with the bourgeois parties of the Right', (capitalists, conservatives) Hitler retorted angrily, "I am a Socialist," and he meant it. It was just that he had to get his money from the Finance Capitalists. Everybody has to. That's the way the world is organised.
Nice one, you managed to take a quote completely out of context. Unofrtunately for you, I know exactly where that very quote was taken from, a conversation between Hitler and Otto Strasser in 1930.
So let's have a few more Hitler quotes from that very conversation:
"[To Strasser] What you preach is Liberalism, nothing but Liberalism. there is only one kind of revolution, and it is not economic or political or social, but racial, and it wil always be the same: the struggle of inferior races against inferior races"
"[Strasser to Hitler] Let us assume, Herr Hitler, that you came into power tomorrow. What would you do about Krupp's (a major capitalist industry)? Would you leave it alone or not?"
"[Hitler replied] "Of course I should leave it alone. Do you think me so crazy as to ruin one of Germany's great industries?"
"[Strasser retorted] If you wish to preserve the capitalist regime, Herr Hitler, you have no right to talk of Socialsism. For our supporters are Socialsists, and your programme (yes, the 25 points) demands the socialisation of private enterprise"
"[Hitler replied] The word "socialism" is the trouble. I have never said that industries should be socialised."
"[Hitler] There is no reason for granting the workers a share in the profits of enterprises that employ them"
I think it's also worth mentioning that this Otto Strasser had a brother, Gregor. He was even more Left wing than Otto, needless to say, Hitler had him killed.
They like to use this one a lot; they will argue that hitler cozied up to the banks. The fact is, everyone cozies up to the banks.
Hitler didn't just "cozy up" to the rich industrial magnates; they "cozied up" to him.
In fact, to a large extent, big Business was what brought Hitler into power. He received generous donations from Thyssen, Hugenberg and others. In fact, the conservatives in the Reichstag; Von Papen especially, supported Hitler because of their mutual interest (i.e. Business nterest, Authoritarian values).
Does the name Ernst Roehm mean anything to you? He was a close friend of Hitler before his rise to power and after. In fact, he headed the notorious SA and the power he wielded within the nazi party was second only to hitler’s.
:lol: :lol: :lol: :lol:
Fucking hell!
You obviously negelct the fact that Hitler had his "good friend" Ernst Rohm killed in 1934!
Hitler also actively tried to remove religion from public life. He initiated a war on tobacco, he was an animal rights activist, he was pro abortion..in fact, he instituted abortion on demand and for a short period, Germany was doing half a million abortions per year. He was big on gun control and set up euthanasia initiatives in 1939.
Yes Hitler supported abortion and euthanasia..........
In order to wipe out "inferior" elements of society. Thus the mentaly ill, asthmatics and others were sterilized or, in the case of the former, just killed. That's Euthanasia for you.
Oh, and did I mention that he banned trade unions!
Anyway, to bdw:
-----------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------
Wow, for someone with an IQ of 144 you're really pretty dense aren't you, bdw. You could probably do with a History lesson, but hopefully this response will suffice, for now.
Over the past couple of days I've spent here, I've seen many say that Hitler was right wing, a capitalist, etc. I will now demonstrate that Hitler was no capitalist, but socialist, and anyone who still disagrees in the end is apparently on crack.
On crack yes; but at least not a fool.
A political philosopher friend of mine, who was once banned from this site, compiled this list. Does anyone remember a character named "Stories4u"? Since he is unable to be here I have taken the liberty to post this information. Enjoy...
What a slick way to say "copy and paste"!
The term Nazi stood for National Socialist Workers Party
Really?!?!
I think everyone here knows the party's name, in German, National Sozialistiche Deutsche Arbeiter Party (I think).
Unlike you, however, most of us are able to actually look at the reasons why that was the name, rather than assuming that it was a logical expression of Hitler's ideology.
The Name was coined in February 1920, long before Hitler even became leader of the party. At the time the party did embody "Socialist" elements, though Hitler himself was no keen proponent of them.
The name remained for three key reasons:
In the first place it was simply not worth changing the name. It had become a term familiar to a number of Germans, to change would not have made much sense, causing unnecessary disruption.
Secondly, many in the party (though not Hitler) were Socialists, of a kind. To keep the party more or less united, Hitler maintained the pretension that the party was, in some ways, "Socialist"; to do otherwise would have split the party in its infancy.
Thirdly, the Nazi party was always about wide appeal. The National Socialist ideology was such that it cut across traditional divides and sectional interests. Hitler liked to emphasize the Socialist side of Nazism in order to gain support of the workers (though he largely failed in that respect).
Have you ever seen the planks of the Nazi party? If you have, why aren't you able to make the connection?
The 25 point programme? Yes, I have seen it, but unlike you I understand it within its historical context.
Here are a few of them, I will omit the ones regarding treaties and such:
Nice to see that you've ommited all the Nationalist ones as well. <_<
Anyway, like the name NSDAP, the 25 point programme was written up in February 1920. Hitler was involved, though perhaps the principal author of the programme was Anton drexler. It is notable that, according to all historical reports, Hitler pushed for the implementation of the Nationalist points. Among them:
"We demand land and territory to feed our people and settle our growing population"
"Only members of the nation may be citizens of the State. Only those of german blood, whatever their creed, may be members of the nation. Accordingly, no Jew may be a member of the nation.
There are others but these should suffice. They do not sound like conservative ideals, do they?
No they don't, but did Hitler ever actually implement the Socialist elements of the 25 point programme.
Did he abolish incomes unearned by work? Not really.
Did he nationalize a great number of industries? Not particularly.
Did he enforce profit sharing in Big businesses? NO.
Hitler retorted angrily, "I am a Socialist," and he meant it.
My arse!
Hitler got his money from the same place that Lenin and the Bolsheviks did: from international bankers. When Otto Strasser accused Hitler of wanting to strangle the socialist revolution 'for the sake of legality and a new collaboration with the bourgeois parties of the Right', (capitalists, conservatives) Hitler retorted angrily, "I am a Socialist," and he meant it. It was just that he had to get his money from the Finance Capitalists. Everybody has to. That's the way the world is organised.
Nice one, you managed to take a quote completely out of context. Unofrtunately for you, I know exactly where that very quote was taken from, a conversation between Hitler and Otto Strasser in 1930.
So let's have a few more Hitler quotes from that very conversation:
"[To Strasser] What you preach is Liberalism, nothing but Liberalism. there is only one kind of revolution, and it is not economic or political or social, but racial, and it wil always be the same: the struggle of inferior races against inferior races"
"[Strasser to Hitler] Let us assume, Herr Hitler, that you came into power tomorrow. What would you do about Krupp's (a major capitalist industry)? Would you leave it alone or not?"
"[Hitler replied] "Of course I should leave it alone. Do you think me so crazy as to ruin one of Germany's great industries?"
"[Strasser retorted] If you wish to preserve the capitalist regime, Herr Hitler, you have no right to talk of Socialsism. For our supporters are Socialsists, and your programme (yes, the 25 points) demands the socialisation of private enterprise"
"[Hitler replied] The word "socialism" is the trouble. I have never said that industries should be socialised."
"[Hitler] There is no reason for granting the workers a share in the profits of enterprises that employ them"
I think it's also worth mentioning that this Otto Strasser had a brother, Gregor. He was even more Left wing than Otto, needless to say, Hitler had him killed.
They like to use this one a lot; they will argue that hitler cozied up to the banks. The fact is, everyone cozies up to the banks.
Hitler didn't just "cozy up" to the rich industrial magnates; they "cozied up" to him.
In fact, to a large extent, big Business was what brought Hitler into power. He received generous donations from Thyssen, Hugenberg and others. In fact, the conservatives in the Reichstag; Von Papen especially, supported Hitler because of their mutual interest (i.e. Business nterest, Authoritarian values).
Does the name Ernst Roehm mean anything to you? He was a close friend of Hitler before his rise to power and after. In fact, he headed the notorious SA and the power he wielded within the nazi party was second only to hitler’s.
:lol: :lol: :lol: :lol:
Fucking hell!
You obviously negelct the fact that Hitler had his "good friend" Ernst Rohm killed in 1934!
Hitler also actively tried to remove religion from public life. He initiated a war on tobacco, he was an animal rights activist, he was pro abortion..in fact, he instituted abortion on demand and for a short period, Germany was doing half a million abortions per year. He was big on gun control and set up euthanasia initiatives in 1939.
Yes Hitler supported abortion and euthanasia..........
In order to wipe out "inferior" elements of society. Thus the mentaly ill, asthmatics and others were sterilized or, in the case of the former, just killed. That's Euthanasia for you.
Oh, and did I mention that he banned trade unions!