Does Israel have a right to exist?

[AmericanZionist2004]

I'm not talking about criticism of Israeli policies, and yes, it is possible to have a Palestinian state and still vote "yes". But does Israel have a right to exist? If not, why not, and are there any other countries without a right to exist?

[Vinny Rafarino]

The terrorist state of Israel deserves only to be a territory governed by the Palestinian Parliament.

The name "Israel" will be nothing more than a geographic reference to the territory with borders that are significantly reduced from what they currently are.

I suggest something around the size of one third of the American State of Rhode Island. European Anglos will of course have the right to live in whatever portion of Palestine they wish, however more than likely after the massive immigration of people of european descent back to Europe that will enevitably follow the devolution of Isreali power back to the Palestinians, the remaining anglos will probably prefer to group into a common area.

Indiginous people of the jewish faith will probably prefer to live side by side with their Palestinian brothers as they have done for centuries.

If you have to ask yourself why a state deserves the "right to exist" simply by order of "divine word" then you would probably be happier singing in the temple rather than here discussing politics.

[BOZG]

Does Israel have a 'right' to exist? Not really, but such is the situation now. The state of Israel should never have been created at the expense of the Palestinian people but it has. Should the state of Israel encompass its present borders? No, at very best the pre-1967 line borders should be re-applied now. I don't think there's really any solution to the conflict on a single state basis under capitalism, nevermind at the moment. I would call for two individual states to be created for the time being until which 'national' conflicts could be addressed etc but I believe they can only be addressed in a socialist society.

[V.I.Lenin]

Does Israel have a right to exist?




Does any nation?

[DRS]

yeah, the land was stolen from the muslims and given to the jews for WW2 when it was no ones land to give away, i all for the palestinians, the dirty Israeli army sends their tanks in to kill inocent children, and shot down kids of 9 just for throwing stones at a tank. Barbaric

[Guerrilla22]

Originally posted by [email protected] 8 2004, 12:46 AM
Does Israel have a right to exist?




Does any nation?
Great point. Israel has about as much right to exist as the US does, or any other conquored land. The thing is, people wouldn't have as much as a problem with Israel if Israel hadn't pulled off massive land grabs after its varoius wars with its Arab neighbors (which it always won thanks to the US) if Israel hadn't expanded thousands of settlements into Palestinian land and if Israel would stop its occupation of Palestinian land and allow Palestine to become a nation.

What I can't figure out, is why people, especially Israelis and conservatives always argue that Israel has a right to exist, but at the same time will make the argument that a Palestinian state doesn't have the right to exist.

[V.I.Lenin]

Originally posted by [email protected] 7 2004, 09:15 PM
The thing is, people wouldn't have as much as a problem with Israel if Israel hadn't pulled off massive land grabs after its varoius wars with its Arab neighbors (which it always won thanks to the US) if Israel hadn't expanded thousands of settlements into Palestinian land and if Israel would stop its occupation of Palestinian land and allow Palestine to become a nation.

What I can't figure out, is why people, especially Israelis and conservatives always argue that Israel has a right to exist, but at the same time will make the argument that a Palestinian state doesn't have the right to exist.
and the 500 nations which occupied American soil may not have had such a problem with the Europeans had they not stolen them away from their native land and communities (I say it thus because native Americans viewed the land as not belonging to anyone) in order to grab massive quantities of land like in the Oklahoma Land Rush of 1889.

Then again,expansionism is the very core of imperialism,the same vile practice for which Hitler came to be criticized by historical writers and commentators for his plans and policies forged under the idea of Lebensraum(living space),indeed its been stated that Hitler got his idea for concentration camps from the British and Americans in their treatment of the indiginous peoples during their imperialist campaigns by which they came to colonize foreign lands.

Tell me,the Jews which were exploited and murdered in such horrendous numbers under the Third Reich,were they any more human than they of South Africa,India,North and South America,etc?

There are many reasons why the state of Israel came into existence leading back over many generations and calling into account covert operations which had been active as early as the founding of America but to attempt to discuss such matters would most likely cause a backlash of opposing posts in which some may assume to call me a conspiracist,something I assure you that Im not.

In reality were everyone of various religio-cultural traditions,socio-political ideologies,etc to have their own separate nations then no one could walk three steps without crossing someone elses border.

[revolutionindia]

In this world every living thing has a fundamental universal right to exist.

But if the foundations of your house are built on the dead bodies of
innocent people they know that the house will neither have many
floors and neither will it last for a long time.

One must always live in this world yet rise above it.

If you want to rise above this world rise at your own cost and not
on the dead bodies of Palestinian people.

A Question

Does Palestine have a right to exist?

[revolutionindia]

BTW: There are quite a small number of jews who live in India
they have mixed without any problems into indian society.

In fact some jews in India have done more for our country than
our own country men who sold us to the British

[V.I.Lenin]

Originally posted by [email protected] 8 2004, 03:34 AM


A Question

Does Palestine have a right to exist?
Perhaps you should ask this of an Anarchist in that their answer is an all-encompassing one by which no nation is left untouched.

[Guerrilla22]

Again, Israel has about as much right to exist as any nation on the North or South American Continents, then again we really can blame the whole israel mess on the Nazis and the British, whom found it necessary to establish a Jewish state, after cracking and giving in to terrorist. Intersting, Israel a state that has sworn to fight terrorism was actually founded largely in part to terrorism.

[__ca va?]

yeah, the land was stolen from the muslims and given to the jews for WW2 when it was no ones land to give away

Well this is simply untrue. Israel wasn't given to the Jews as some kind of a compensation for the Holocaust but it was the Zionist movement (and the British Empire) that achieved to give Palestine to the Jews. This had nothing to do with WW2.


, i all for the palestinians, the dirty Israeli army sends their tanks in to kill inocent children, and shot down kids of 9 just for throwing stones at a tank. Barbaric

In fact those tanks are not sent there to massacre children! The Israelis want to kill terrorists and fundamentalist militants (errrr... they are the same as terrorists I suppose...) and secure the country.
On the other hand they are oppressing the Palestinian people which must be stopped.


I don't think there's really any solution to the conflict on a single state basis under capitalism, nevermind at the moment. I would call for two individual states to be created for the time being until which 'national' conflicts could be addressed etc but I believe they can only be addressed in a socialist society.

Thats's a solution too, but they could live in peace in one country if the Palestinians had the same right as Jews. Well, this calls for a new constitution and a new country like "Israeli-Palestinian Union" or something like that. But the name doesn't really count, it's the level of freedom that makes the difference.

[__ca va?]

Again, Israel has about as much right to exist as any nation on the North or South American Continents, then again we really can blame the whole israel mess on the Nazis and the British, whom found it necessary to establish a Jewish state, after cracking and giving in to terrorist. Intersting, Israel a state that has sworn to fight terrorism was actually founded largely in part to terrorism.


Again, we can't blame the "Israel mess" on the Nazis, in fact tha British forced many ships of immigrants to turn back from the coast of Israel even after the 2nd WW. This made the British widely hated in the world! It was this pressure
and the resistance of Jews already living in Israel that forced the British to leave the whole case to the UN. The UN decided to make 2 countries in Palestine but the Arabs didn't accept this (which is understandable). They declared war on Israel immediately but they lost.

And the land was bought by the Zionist movement from the British, there was no terror or compensation in this!

[Guerrilla22]

yes actually in part you can, note that I said the British too, after World War 2, the allies, mainly the British began transporting large amounts of displaced Jews to what was then Palestine, after enough Jews were in the area, they finally had the strength to start a suceesful guerrilla movement and force the British to sign the Belfour Declaration, which created Israel (see 1948 territorial map)