Lenin and Anti-Semitism

[Lacrimi de Chiciură]

Can someone inform me about this? In what way did he support it?

[YKTMX]

He supported it by following the teachings of a Jew and having lots of Jewish people in his party.

He was very clever about it. Typical eh?

[Lacrimi de Chiciură]

Okay, well I heard it on some infomercial about donating money to some organization that buys tickets to Israel for jews who want to move there.

[CubanFox]

Originally posted by el-[email protected] 8 2004, 12:16 PM
Okay, well I heard it on some infomercial about donating money to some organization that buys tickets to Israel for jews who want to move there.
It's total bullshit. You can't be a communist and an anti-Semite, because Karl Marx was a Jew.

It's in the interests of hardcore Zionists to hate Lenin anyway.

[Hiero]

t's total bullshit. You can't be a communist and an anti-Semite, because Karl Marx was a Jew.
Thats a poor reason.

[CubanFox]

Originally posted by comrade [email protected] 8 2004, 08:20 PM
Thats a poor reason.
Why?

[V.I.Lenin]

Comrade Lenin himself possessed a percentage of Jewish blood,if one can rightly accredit such matters to blood,this came by way of his paternal grandfather,while I myself likewise possess such a percentage of Jewish blood,however,mine came by way of my maternal grandmother.

In reality the Jewish people are moreso a religio-cultural enclave than what one could classify as a racial identity,and theres too many comrades of the Jewish people for anyone to ever rightly claim Communism to be anti-Semitic.

[BOZG]

Originally posted by [email protected] 8 2004, 11:40 AM
Why?
Marx is not the lone creator of communism and even if he was, to say that you can't be a communist anti-semite based on the fact that Marx was Jewish is ridiculous. You could still agree with his ideas while despising the man.

[V.I.Lenin]

Originally posted by [email protected] 8 2004, 06:23 AM
Marx is not the lone creator of communism and even if he was, to say that you can't be a communist anti-semite based on the fact that Marx was Jewish is ridiculous. You could still agree with his ideas while despising the man.
Really?


can a person likewise be a christian while at the same time despising Jesus? Surely a reasonable person would see how flawed your analogy truly is.

[BOZG]

Well I'm sure you've met many people who you think what they said is correct but they're complete assholes personally. You can despise someone's ethnicity but still regard what they say as correct. I've come across many anti-semitic communists.

[V.I.Lenin]

Originally posted by [email protected] 8 2004, 07:21 AM
Well I'm sure you've met many people who you think what they said is correct but they're complete assholes personally. You can despise someone's ethnicity but still regard what they say as correct. I've come across many anti-semitic communists.
What I suggest my friend is that you simply came across many anti-Semites claiming to be Communist.

[YKTMX]

Originally posted by [email protected] 8 2004, 12:32 PM
What I suggest my friend is that you simply came across many anti-Semites claiming to be Communist.
Exactly.

[BOZG]

Stop being so fucking pedantic about things, it's quite obvious what I mean.

[Guerrilla22]

As far as Jews in Russian society, before the revolution, many of them held government post, such as tax collectors, which really didn;t make them all that popular, but because of the position in society they held, not because of their ethnicity.

Marx was in fact a Jew, a Jew, who abolished his Jewish heritage, and converted to Chrisitanity, probaly to avoid being a target of rampid anti-Semitism. He later, obviously abolished all his relgious beliefs all together.

As far as giving out free plane rides to Jews to go to Israel, that was done by the Soviet government, well after Lenin had passed away. In fact, the current Israeli state was not established untill 1948, 24 years after Lenin's death.

[Louis Pio]

Marx was in fact a Jew, a Jew, who abolished his Jewish heritage, and converted to Chrisitanity, probaly to avoid being a target of rampid anti-Semitism. He later, obviously abolished all his relgious beliefs all together.

A small correction. I belive it was his father who converted, thus converting the whole family.

[RedComrade]

Correct. Marx himself was raised up as a Lutheran Christian and as far as i am aware his Jewish ancestry did not figure too prominently in any aspect of his life. His mom was a national german- christian too was she not?, so even ethnically Marx was not 100% jewish.

[synthesis]

Originally posted by [email protected] 8 2004, 05:33 PM
As far as Jews in Russian society, before the revolution, many of them held government post, such as tax collectors, which really didn;t make them all that popular, but because of the position in society they held, not because of their ethnicity.
Not quite, comrade. Pogroms were official state policy under Nicholas II, and Russian anti-Semitism was largely a result of Tsarist propaganda attacking Jews as "Christ-killers" and "ritual murderers." Most Russian peasants didn't personally know any Jews and probably didn't even know anyone who did. I highly doubt that there were any Jews in any government positions of note.

[Reuben]

Originally posted by [email protected] 9 2004, 12:33 AM
As far as Jews in Russian society, before the revolution, many of them held government post, such as tax collectors, which really didn;t make them all that popular, but because of the position in society they held, not because of their ethnicity.

Marx was in fact a Jew, a Jew, who abolished his Jewish heritage, and converted to Chrisitanity, probaly to avoid being a target of rampid anti-Semitism. He later, obviously abolished all his relgious beliefs all together.

As far as giving out free plane rides to Jews to go to Israel, that was done by the Soviet government, well after Lenin had passed away. In fact, the current Israeli state was not established untill 1948, 24 years after Lenin's death.
that is a post which is untrue (the jews were generally very,poor and excluded from civil and political society by a total of 1400 national anti-semitic laws). It is also a pathetic attempt to rationalise the anti-semitism of the russian peasant and the state. THey were not hated because they held government posts. In fact the agent of anti-semitism was the russian government itself - for example in 1905 when the government sponsored Union of russian peoples murdered 3000 jews in two weeks. Note that this was in response alledgedly to the over representation of jews in the opposition.

You seem to imply that the dislike of jews was legitimate and that concerns me.

[Lacrimi de Chiciură]

Is communism anti-all-religion? Can a communist believe in a god?

[CubanFox]

Originally posted by el-[email protected] 12 2004, 05:08 PM
Is communism anti-all-religion? Can a communist believe in a god?
Ahhhhh! Can of worms alert!

Comrade, I advise you debate it here (http://www.che-lives.com/forum/index.php?showtopic=6238).

[herr_Nosferatu]

Originally posted by [email protected] 8 2004, 11:23 AM
Marx is not the lone creator of communism and even if he was, to say that you can't be a communist anti-semite based on the fact that Marx was Jewish is ridiculous. You could still agree with his ideas while despising the man.

Marx is not the lone creator of communism and even if he was, to say that you can't be a communist anti-semite based on the fact that Marx was Jewish is ridiculous. You could still agree with his ideas while despising the man.¨

Indeed this is the case with another great thinker, Pierre-Joseph Prudhon....

His theories are innovative and interesting, yet he was a known fervant anti-semite

[Daymare17]

Can someone inform me about this? In what way did he support it?

It's a very large and very nasty pack of lies.

As for the Marx quotes that certain reactionaries pull out and present as "proof" of anti-Semitism, see here:

http://www.marxists.de/religion/draper/marxjewq.htm