"Confused about communism"

[Postteen]

The problems inherent in communism become apparent when power becomes consolidated in the hands of a few. "Power corrupts, absolute power corrupts absolutely!" That statement pretty much sums it up. In practice communism concentrates all the power, thus corrupting those on top and the whole system. The other failing is that humans aren't just needy, they're GREEDY. The failure of the communist regimes was that those with the power were the only ones able to satisfy their greed, while the rest could barely meet their needs. So far from creating a worker's paradise, communism in practice was nothing more than a huge slave camp, with the workers toiling away for the benefit of a few powerful comrades (party members).


"confused about Communism" (http://www.hippy.com/php/article-30.html)

Well....Hippies have a very bad opinion about communism,unfortunately.Thank Gosh,not all of them.(most of them are liberals&#33; <_< )

[YKTMX]

Hippies are stupid, middle-class potheads. They are confused about everything. It&#39;s amazing how traditional conservative and Christian dogma like "humans are inherently evil" can infilitrate groups like hippies.

[Guest1]

yuppies, not hippies.

[YKTMX]

Eh?

[Hot Dog Day #84]

Originally posted by Beatle [email protected] 5 2004, 08:48 PM


"confused about Communism" (http://www.hippy.com/php/article-30.html)

Well....Hippies have a very bad opinion about communism,unfortunately.Thank Gosh,not all of them.(most of them are liberals&#33; <_< )
who doesnt? seriously, not just trying to have a dig. almost all political leanings dont even consider communism or any strand of it seriously nowadays.

[ÑóẊîöʼn]

I&#39;m sorry, but bush v kerry is not &#39;almost all&#39; political leanings <_<

[Hot Dog Day #84]

Well ok but its not just those i was referring to. I dont know about US parties, but in the UK almost all liberals - greens, gay rights, feminists, pacifist, etc - dont support changing the structure of production. and of course all of the right wing, being free market anyway, doesnt see it as an option.

[Misodoctakleidist]

When exactly did non-communists ever support communism?

[Guest1]

:lol:

But seriously, as you have admitted being not opposed to Capitalism, I will make you acquainted with the Che-Lives guidelines:


What is restriction, and what is the Opposing Ideologies forum?

Restriction is a measure the membership uses to focus the debate on this site. We are a group of progressive Leftists, after all. That is about as much as many of us have in common however. We disagree on how the society we envision will work, how best to emancipate the workers and many other issues. We need to debate these things respectfully, amongst ourselves. So we restrict debate about whether we should emancipate the workers at all to the Opposing Ideologies forum.

This is where all right-wingers are sent. This is where anyone who is too disruptive to proper debate is sent. There are other reasons for being restricted to OI of course, but generally, it requires behavior that is deemed in conflict with the membership&#39;s vision for this site.
Thus, you are now restricted.

Enjoy.

[Hot Dog Day #84]

Oh, ok I didnt plan on going out of it anyway.

Misodoctakleidist i was referring to the previous posters point, which implied that the sentiment that communism is now irrelevant is confined to the democrats and republicans. I was demonstrating that other political parties and movements also reject it.

[revolutionindia]

I have a feeling Hot Dog Day #84 is an idiot who got banned recently

Some children complain all day about che-lives but cant seem to live
without it for a few days <_<

[The Sloth]

Originally posted by [email protected] 7 2004, 09:02 AM
Some children complain all day about che-lives but cant seem to live
without it for a few days <_<
How ironic of you to say that.

I remember you complaining about Che-Lives, threatening us with "leaving," for "a long time," then coming back like three days later.

:lol:

[The Sloth]

Originally posted by Hot Dog Day #[email protected] 7 2004, 01:33 AM
Misodoctakleidist i was referring to the previous posters point, which implied that the sentiment that communism is now irrelevant is confined to the democrats and republicans. I was demonstrating that other political parties and movements also reject it.
Communism is irrelevant in terms of "popularity," but as you well know, what is "popular" is not necessarily "good."

Just because two major political parties reject it doesn&#39;t mean that their rejection isn&#39;t meaningless...consider the fact that almost every big-time Democrat and Republican running our country is more or less rich and has much to lose by implementing such a system.

Seriously, do you expect them to "endorse" it?

In conclusion, what I was basically trying to say is, fuck the Democrats, fuck the Republicans.

Yes, that&#39;s quite right, yes.

EDIT: Dennis Kucinich is the only Democrat off the top of my head that doesn&#39;t get a "fuck you" from me.

[Professor Moneybags]

Originally posted by Brooklyn&#045;[email protected] 7 2004, 02:10 PM
Communism is irrelevant in terms of "popularity," but as you well know, what is "popular" is not necessarily "good."
That&#39;s a complete turnaround. A few days ago, being part of a majority made even murder and armed robbery acceptable. So what&#39;s it be then ?

[Hot Dog Day #84]

I have a feeling Hot Dog Day #84 is an idiot who got banned recently

Some children complain all day about che-lives but cant seem to live
without it for a few days
Yeah for sure. I havent complained once you complete and utter worthless moron.


Communism is irrelevant in terms of "popularity," but as you well know, what is "popular" is not necessarily "good."

Just because two major political parties reject it doesn&#39;t mean that their rejection isn&#39;t meaningless...consider the fact that almost every big-time Democrat and Republican running our country is more or less rich and has much to lose by implementing such a system.

Seriously, do you expect them to "endorse" it?

In conclusion, what I was basically trying to say is, fuck the Democrats, fuck the Republicans.

Yes, that&#39;s quite right, yes.

EDIT: Dennis Kucinich is the only Democrat off the top of my head that doesn&#39;t get a "fuck you" from me
Ok, I wasnt suggesting any of that though. You guys are taking this wayyy out of context all im saying is that in reference to the first post in this thread, it isnt just hippies who have a bad opinion about it, its most of society.

[Osman Ghazi]

Ok, I wasnt suggesting any of that though. You guys are taking this wayyy out of context all im saying is that in reference to the first post in this thread, it isnt just hippies who have a bad opinion about it, its most of society.

Yes, but the same was true of the abolitionists in 1830. And look what they accomplished in just 35 years.

[The Sloth]

Originally posted by Professor [email protected] 7 2004, 06:05 PM
That&#39;s a complete turnaround. A few days ago, being part of a majority made even murder and armed robbery acceptable. So what&#39;s it be then ?
This "robbery" and "murder" (actually, I&#39;m not too sure about &#39;murder&#39;...by the way, I&#39;d appreciate it if you get back to the "communist myths" thread as I&#39;ve offered a reply) of the capitalist class is done in self-defense and out of a desire to be "free."

If I were an African in Sierra-Leone whose father&#39;s hands were cut off so your fucking DeBeers can supply diamonds to America and Europe, whose infant was mutilated because I was protesting racist treatment, I&#39;d hang every armed enforcer of this "law" that I&#39;d find and then get to the piece of shit that owns this corporation, knows what is going on, and refuses to act on it, and hang him, too.

I&#39;m a criminal???

[revolutionindia]

Originally posted by Brooklyn&#045;[email protected] 7 2004, 07:33 PM
How ironic of you to say that.

I remember you complaining about Che-Lives, threatening us with "leaving," for "a long time," then coming back like three days later.

:lol:
I Actually came back to post a very important peice of trivia

my topic Blacks are not humans

:lol:

[CubanFox]

Originally posted by [email protected] 8 2004, 05:10 PM
I Actually came back to post a very important peice of trivia

my topic Blacks are not humans

:lol:
Ah, but you still came back.

And besides, this is hardly news. Fascist reactionary fucks like those found at Stormfront have hated black people for æons.

[revolutionindia]

Cuban fox tell me are there really any foxes in Cuba?

[CubanFox]

Originally posted by [email protected] 8 2004, 06:25 PM
Cuban fox tell me are there really any foxes in Cuba?
God, you&#39;re an idiot.

[revolutionindia]

I personally think foxes are not native to Cuba.

but they could have been introduced in cuba by settlers

Does anybody have info whether foxes exist in Cuba?

[CubanFox]

Originally posted by [email protected] 8 2004, 06:57 PM
I personally think foxes are not native to Cuba.

but they could have been introduced in cuba by settlers

Does anybody have info whether foxes exist in Cuba?
#1 There are no foxes in Cuba.

#2 My username is based on Erwin Rommel&#39;s nickname, the "Desert Fox".

[revolutionindia]

LONG LIVE :castro: :che: and CUBAN FOXES&#33;&#33;&#33;&#33;&#33;&#33;&#33;&#33;&#33;

[CubanFox]

Originally posted by [email protected] 8 2004, 07:03 PM
LONG LIVE :castro: :che: and CUBAN FOXES&#33;&#33;&#33;&#33;&#33;&#33;&#33;&#33;&#33;
What in the name of fuck is wrong with you?

[Guerrilla22]

Originally posted by [email protected] 7 2004, 09:02 AM
I have a feeling Hot Dog Day #84 is an idiot who got banned recently

Some children complain all day about che-lives but cant seem to live
without it for a few days <_<
:ph34r: Che Lives is like a drug, the more you try to leave it alone, the more you can&#39;t resist it. :o :o

[Guerrilla22]

Originally posted by [email protected] 8 2004, 08:57 AM
I personally think foxes are not native to Cuba.

but they could have been introduced in cuba by settlers

Does anybody have info whether foxes exist in Cuba?
I personally think you&#39;re a fucking idiot. :unsure:

[revolutionindia]

Originally posted by [email protected] 8 2004, 03:50 PM
What in the name of fuck is wrong with you?
Look I was born in the year 1951,

I have fought two wars both against pakistan.

In the second war pervez musharaff was still a foot soldier
the battle was going on in its full fury ,when that fox pervez saw me

He fired two shots blindly at me one of them got lodged in my brain.

I could not have an operation because the doctors
said it would be to risky.

So I still live but with a bullet in my brain .
and the word fox gets me all sentimental casue it reminds of that
sly fox musharaff

This is the source of my genius

[CubanFox]

Originally posted by [email protected] 8 2004, 08:41 PM
Look I was born in the year 1951,

I have fought two wars both against pakistan.

In the second war pervez musharaff was still a foot soldier
the battle was going on in its full fury ,when that fox pervez saw me

He fired two shots blindly at me one of them got lodged in my brain.

I could not have an operation because the doctors
said it would be to risky.

So I still live but with a bullet in my brain .

This is the source of my genius
My bullshit sense is tingling.

[revolutionindia]

Originally posted by [email protected] 8 2004, 04:12 PM
My bullshit sense is tingling.
Bullshit makes the world go round :ph34r:

Does that mean your ass is itching if it is then you
better find a tree to scratch it on.

Sorry,I will not do it for you though MiDnIgHt MaRaUdEr
would surely love to help you out.

[Fidelbrand]

Originally posted by [email protected] 6 2004, 11:28 PM
When exactly did non-communists ever support communism?
What are the new-members of Che-lives doing here? Why are they here? (except those rightists and cappies.)

[The Sloth]

Originally posted by [email protected] 8 2004, 11:56 AM
What are the new-members of Che-lives doing here? Why are they here? (except those rightists and cappies.)
Well, revolutionindia was restricted for obvious reasons.

[Fidelbrand]

Originally posted by Brooklyn&#045;[email protected] 8 2004, 10:13 PM
Well, revolutionindia was restricted for obvious reasons.
Yeh, we know about his love for the "nirvana" thingy~ :P
But sure u know what i was talking about...... many of us were born without knowing what communism is exactly, right?

[Hot Dog Day #84]

Sorry,I will not do it for you though MiDnIgHt MaRaUdEr
would surely love to help you out
LOOOOOOOOOOOOOOL i get it you are calling him gay thats hillarious you are hillarious&#33;&#33;&#33;&#33;&#33;&#33;&#33;&#33;&#33;&#33;&#33;&#33;&#33;&#33;&#33;&#33;&#33;&#33;&#33;&#33;&#33;&#33;

[revolutionindia]

Senor,What&#39;s my name doing in your signature??

[Y2A]

He&#39;s making fun of you in his sig because you are a dumb piece of shit.

[revolutionindia]

Y2A-Giver of Infinite Knowledge
Care to enlighten me about what it mean?

[revolutionindia]

also would you care to tell me if you are related to that bug Y2k that
hit computers in the year 2000.
Personally ,I think you are a new strain of that bug which has infected
forums all over the internet.

[Capitalist Imperial]

Originally posted by [email protected] 8 2004, 10:34 AM
:ph34r: Che Lives is like a drug, the more you try to leave it alone, the more you can&#39;t resist it. :o :o
One of the few times we agree, sir.

[Hot Dog Day #84]

Originally posted by [email protected] 9 2004, 02:15 PM
also would you care to tell me if you are related to that bug Y2k that
hit computers in the year 2000.
Personally ,I think you are a new strain of that bug which has infected
forums all over the internet.
oh revolutionindia-chan -.-

[revolutionindia]

hey hotdog that was a question aimed at Y2A

[James]

Beatle Kat; Yes, this does seem a wide spread opinion - it is in the interests of societies elite to spread this rumour.
However, a few marx quotes "put the record straight".


And people think they have taken an exceedingly bold step when they have freed themselves of faith in a hereditary monarchy and swear now by the democratic republic. In reality, however, the State is nothing else than a machine for the oppression of one class by another, and indeed no less so in the democratic republic than in the monarchy.
- Frederick Engels (1891), Introduction to The Civil War in France

This criticism easily applies to many "communist countries" which the origional article (or is it a post?) may cite, or had in mind at the time of writting.

[hence why i think the Republican cause in the UK is counter-revolutionary, and un-productive: which in turn led to some people calling me a monarchist, and thus i was thrown out of the CC. A perfect example of how the majority can be wrong&#33; Dead wrong.]




The proletariat seizes political power and turns the means of production into State property. But in doing this, it abolishes itself as proletariat, abolishes all class distinctions and class antagonisms, abolishes also the State as State. ...
The first act by virtue of which the State really constitutes itself the representative of the whole of society - the taking possession of the means of production in the name of society - that is, at the same time, its last independent act as a State. State interference in social relations becomes, in one domain after another, superfluous, and then dies out of itself; the government of persons is replaced by the administration of things, and by the conduct of processes of production.
The State is not "abolished." It dies out.
- Frederick Engels, Socialism - Utopian and Scientific

To me, this is why it is so important that we don&#39;t try and rush the revolution. I don&#39;t think a real communist revolution would be possible in my life time, in the UK, as things stand (although of course, things can change&#33;).
Anyhow, this quote demonstrates that the state ceases to be a seperate body from the people - it all merges into one: therefore there is no elite (although i do struggle to comprehend such a society, as things stand - who knows, maybe human actions/attitude/social patterns can and will change).



Despite the claim that "in practise" a rulling elite appears, and selfish actions turn communism, once established (which i do not believe has ever really happened, other than in small communities) into a nightmare of an elite exploiting the innocent majority; a claim which i think is central to the origional hippy (or yuppy) post/article; in real REALITY the theory is not followed "in practise" (in the events which the article is refering to)- which is what allows such abuses to happen. The theory is quite simple;


All previous historical movements were movements of minorities, or in the interests of minorities. The proletarian movement is the self-conscious, independent movement of the immense majority, in the interests of the immense majority.
- Karl Marx and Frederick Engels (1848), The Communist Manifesto
Lets go through this slowly and properly, because it is very important to one&#39;s understanding of marxist revolution.
All previous historical movements were movements of minorities, or in the interests of minorities.

Here Marx recognises the fact that revolutions have been used in the way the hippy refers to.

The proletarian movement

Here marx introduces a new and different idea: which is seperate from the concept he first states (that of a minority etc etc). The article refers to the first type of movement - that isn&#39;t what Marx was refering to, thus not really communism.

is the self-conscious, independent movement of the immense majority, in the interests of the immense majority.

Its not brain dead; it doesn&#39;t follow a few; it only has the interests of the immense majority at heart. Not individuals.


(see my sig for a similar quote)


In summary:


What justification is there, then, for terming the upheaval in Russia a Socialist Revolution? None whatever beyond the fact that the leaders in the November movement claim to be Marxian Socialists.
- J. Fitzjerald, Socialist Standard, Aug 1918

[Hiero]

Originally posted by [email protected] 9 2004, 10:57 AM
He&#39;s making fun of you in his sig because you are a dumb piece of shit.
LMFAO Your the only rightist i like in this forum, i like more then some of the pacifist liberal leftist.

[revolutionindia]

Comrade I feel the same ,you are a good human being ;)

I don&#39;t know why but I think I am not right
For the record
I&#39;m neither right,left or in the centre
I&#39;m just looking for my own corner in this round world.
I will definately find one.

[James]

out of curiosity, what do you tend to get on the political compass (yes i know it is crude and generalises, and is biased and blah blah blah)>

[revolutionindia]

Dude I have never ever taken the political compass test.
I don&#39;t know why?
probably becasue I never have much FAITH in them :D

[Hot Dog Day #84]

No-read zone


Personal Message
revolutionindia Comrade&#33;&#33;&#33;&#33;, Aug 11 2004, 04:54 PM

gifted individual


Group: Restricted Members
Posts: 311
Joined: 13-December 03

Comrade
you seem to have forgotten the spelling of fame.

fame is pronounced FAME and not SHAME

So edit your signature and enroll in a english class as soon as
possible

--------------------

Satya Meva Jayate(truth alone triumphs)-Manduka Upanishad

Death is not extinguishing the light;it is putting out the lamp because dawn has come - Rabindranath Tagore

He who cooks for himself alone is a thief - Bhagvad Gi