Living in a communist nation.

[Colombia]

Anyone here ever live in a communist nation?Not visited but lived in for more than a year or so?

[bunk]

I think you mean socialist nations?

[Colombia]

No I meant communist nations but alas I'll include socialist nations as part of my question as well.

[Soldier Sam]

There has never been a communist nation. There have only been a few somwhat socialist ones, but mostly just dictators

[bunk]

yeah unless you mean the paris commune or some parts of the spanish civil war then you must mean socialist nations.

[Colombia]

So then why do you follow communism when all atempts for one have ended in failure?

[ComradeRed]

No, you don't quite understand. Socialism is the path to communism. Socialism still has classes, communism has none. Every "communist" nation has claimed itself as socialist.

[Colombia]

So in fact a communist nation has never even existed before.Is that what you're saying?

[ComradeRed]

Yes! :)

[Colombia]

But then why do socialists criticize capitalist nations when their forms of government has never even existed.Seems a bit cocky to me.

[ComradeRed]

Socialists and Communists (http://redstar2000papers.fightcapitalism.net/theory.php?subaction=showfull&id=1083333881&archive=&cnshow=headlines&start_from=&ucat=&) This might answer some of your questions.

As for the cockiness, don't you think the capitalists criticized feudalism when capitalism didn't exist?

[Colombia]

Did capitalism even exist that far back comrade?

[ComradeRed]

Yeah, it existed [the idea, at least] for about 600 years.

[Fidel Castro]

The best I can offer is that I stayed in a cooperative in Cuba for a few weeks. I lived very basically, as the natives do, you know, lack of hot water, power cuts, rice a beans, hand-washing clothes, lots of recycling, no air con (that was by far the worst thing to cope with!)

I would very much like to visit North Korea, simply out of curiosity. It is pretty much one of the last frontiers to a Western Tourist. The idea of seeing police directing non-existent traffic, empty scy-scrapers and a "model" capital city is strangely appealing. The only problem is, getting a visa for the DPRK is a *****, and the DPRK system looks unsteady (usual anual growth rate is around -4%) and so the time to go see is now.

[Misodoctakleidist]

Originally posted by [email protected] 7 2004, 03:06 AM
So then why do you follow communism when all atempts for one have ended in failure?
And which attempts would they be?

[Don't Change Your Name]

Originally posted by [email protected] 7 2004, 03:06 AM
So then why do you follow communism when all atempts for one have ended in failure?
The closest things to "attempts" to communism ended in "failure" because they were beaten by force.
Or they were fake "communism".


But then why do socialists criticize capitalist nations when their forms of government has never even existed.Seems a bit cocky to me.

If I understood correctly, then it means that in that case nobody should have invented anything since it didn't exist before and we lived happily when we had to sail or walk for months to get somewhere else when we can do that nowadays in few hours...
Or maybe the idea of taking the decision of travelling was also wrong? :rolleyes:

[Dio]

Umm, true capitalism like communism never existed. Capitalism is not such a bad system, if it worked like it did on paper. In fact it is known that capitalist economies provide more happines, but alas capitalism becomes defective, where the elites hold too much power, and regress on the rest of the world so they can persue their own agenda.

[Subversive Pessimist]

Socialism still has classes, communism has none.

Socialism has classes? Could you name the different classes?

[Misodoctakleidist]

Any state system creates classes.

[Colombia]

Originally posted by El Infiltr(A)[email protected] 7 2004, 05:07 PM
If I understood correctly, then it means that in that case nobody should have invented anything since it didn't exist before and we lived happily when we had to sail or walk for months to get somewhere else when we can do that nowadays in few hours...
Or maybe the idea of taking the decision of travelling was also wrong? :rolleyes:
But communism can be criticized because it has existed and it has shown that it cannot be successful.Yet capitalism has shown that it can be successful and can make the people content.

[bunk]

no where communism has existed it has worked.

[Colombia]

Originally posted by [email protected] 8 2004, 09:07 PM
no where communism has existed it has worked.
???

Then what of the Union of Soviet Socialist Republics?
What about Cuba or Nicaragua.

[18tir]

Originally posted by [email protected] 7 2004, 03:06 AM
So then why do you follow communism when all atempts for one have ended in failure?
Virtually all attempts at Communism were made by stalinists, who followed a perverted form of Marxism. Many of the so-called socialist regimes modeled their country on Stalin's Russia. Nearly all of them resulted in totalitarianism. So it wasn't really many different attempts failing. It was the same bankrupt ideology failing many times. The other major attempt was made in China by the maoists, who based their ideology on the peasants, rather than the workers. Again, they were not true communists.

[Colombia]

So then how can people so blindly follow a system of government which has never been "true"?

[colombiano]

To answer your question YEs. 2 years in Germany.

[colombiano]

Not during Soviet Control, but after. Socialism is what I have experienced.

[Raisa]

Originally posted by [email protected] 8 2004, 09:06 PM
But communism can be criticized because it has existed and it has shown that it cannot be successful.Yet capitalism has shown that it can be successful and can make the people content.
Capitalism has to adopt socialist ideas all the time to further its existance. It fades itself out all the time. And it does not make the people content so much as you may think, it just keeps them buisy.

[bunk]

Originally posted by [email protected] 8 2004, 09:09 PM
???

Then what of the Union of Soviet Socialist Republics?
What about Cuba or Nicaragua.
That is socialism i thought we had already identified that with you.

[CommunisChen]

Originally posted by [email protected] 3 2004, 06:30 PM
Anyone here ever live in a communist nation?Not visited but lived in for more than a year or so?
I am from China,a fake communist nation.

[__ca va?]

Anyone here ever live in a communist nation?Not visited but lived in for more than a year or so?

I lived in a communist (in fact -not even- socialist) state for a year: since I was born till I got 1 year old... :)


But communism can be criticized because it has existed and it has shown that it cannot be successful.Yet capitalism has shown that it can be successful and can make the people content.

It depends on who you call "the people". In feudalism around 90% of the people
(this data is from France, before the revolution) were not contented. In this respect capitalism is better, because it makes around 70% of the people contented. But it is still not enough to say it's good for "the people" because "the people" is 100%!
And it's stupid to say communism is never going to exist not only because Stalin or Mao screwed up everything but because trying to achieve communism through socialism is also impossible! IMO it's only achievable through capitalism!
So communism has not been reached because a step had been left out!

[wet blanket]

trying to achieve communism through socialism is also impossible!
:unsure:
That's not what Marx thought. Are you sure you're talking about 'communism'?

[__ca va?]

That's not what Marx thought. Are you sure you're talking about 'communism'?

But this is what the facts show... :P
And even Stalin himself admitted once that communism can be achieved through capitalism...

[wet blanket]

Originally posted by __ca [email protected] 9 2004, 05:53 PM

But this is what the facts show... :P
And even Stalin himself admitted once that communism can be achieved through capitalism...
Stalin also thought that Socialism within one country was a pretty good idea.

Who knows, you could be right though.

[Yazman]

Stalin was also a psychotic dictator with no real pro-socialist ideas, rather he preferred an extremely authoritarian hellhole instead, thus his version of "communism" is really quite irrelevant to reality.

[__ca va?]

Wow! You're speaking like you thought I'd never heard of Stalin before! :)
And it wasn&#39;t only Stalin who built socialism&#33; The Chinese, the Vietnamese, Cuba: al of them tried to reach communism but all of them failed&#33; It seems like it&#39;s only capitalism that can work at the present state of the world... <_<

But I lay stress on consciousness&#33;&#33; Although feudalism lasted for over a millenium, people realised that they are being opressed and overthrew feudalism. Now, in capitalism people think they are free because they have their political rights (this only stands for the western world). Political rights were the achievements of the Enlightment and the french revolution of 1789. But in the present we need economical rights: the right to better living standards for everyone.
And it is going to be the intellectual class which is going to realize this and spread consciousness among the proletariat and the middle classes. Because it&#39;s the middle class that must get to know that the capitalist system is selfish and though it fastens progress it exploits the wider part of the society and keeps the masses uncoscious (telling them to watch films, programmes on tv, buy the newest clothes etc. and thus mislead them from the real meaning of human existance&#33;)

I hope you got what I wanted to express though my English is not too good :unsure: