JoseM, I question your affiliation.

[elizquierdista]

I've seen several posts of yours. Apparently they're all either anti-communist or anti-Cuba. I'm questioning your political affiliation. I figure this way you can better explain yourself. I apologize in advance if I've misjudged you but, please do explain the nature of these posts.

[JoseM]

I just hate when i see people with few or NO knowledge at all about Cuba saying that the life there is so great and good, while in reality the people there is dying and suffering.
Also the fact that these kids have no knowledge about Cuba can be proven with the fact that their answers are just:

-The healthcare in cuba is good
-99% of literacy in cuba
-60% 70% of cubans like fidel
-Cuban life is so great.

Those are the crappy answers they give, and i can tell u that those stupid statistics can be found in any badly web page communist propaganda. But they dont give real answers, also they dont know any cubans.

They believe they know more than the actual cubans. That is stupid.

(Edited by JoseM at 4:41 am on May 2, 2002)


(Edited by JoseM at 4:42 am on May 2, 2002)

[Fires of History]

JoseM,

Are you Cuban yourself?

If you are, you're just one of the typical and boring anti-Castro Cubans, and you should just go work for the CIA and suck some more amerikkkan dick while your at it. Remember the Bay of Pigs? They didn't want you anti-Castros back, and they still don't. And we don't.

Keep in mind, you sorry, bored internet troll that this is a forum for CHE ADMIRERS. Did you know that Che and Cuba were two different things?

[Acolombian]

Hey "Fires of History", instead of using that kind of language, why don't you try to make your point using an intelligent argument instead? You are just like a little kid.
And why don't you go and live to Cuba if you think it is so great!! Only one problem though, unless you are very close friend's of Castro you won't have access to the internet (as well as to many other things), so you won't be able to write again on this forum. What am I saying, problem, that would be great!
Let's face it people have been fleeing Cuba in masses for a reason. The quality of life sucks and you cannot express any opinion freely.
JoseM: you seem like a smart person, I enjoy reading yout comments

[Alejandro C]

Acolumbian and JoseM

Fuck both of you, motherless horse fuckers.
Fuck both of you for coming onto our site and trying to disrespect all of us.
Fuck both of you and all those like you that have nothing better to do with your time then argue with people on the internet to absolutely no end.
What the fuck do you stupid shits think you are going to accomplish.
Are you really that fucking stupid to think that you will persuade anyone here to become a Fucking Capitalist.
You stupid fucking slaves. Why don't you play hide and go fuck yourselves and get the Fuck off our site you *****es.

[Revolution Hero]

Fuck all CIA agents who enter this community.
Acolumbian and JoseM are the *****es of capitalistic politicians. So, fuck them!

[Fires of History]

Hey Columbian,

Why do you claim to know Cuba? You are a Columbian, and you only listen to propaganda about Cuba.

Why do you demonize a country that simply refuses to bend over for the yankee gringos? Columbia is sucking the dick of the gringos, and so are you!

Fuck the AUC! Nothing but sucking yankee dick! And letting the gringos tell Columbia what to do in everything! Columbia's voice is an American voice!

FOREVER FARC-EP!!!

http://www.farc-ep.org/images/Logo_farc.gif

[Angie]

Little Reminder: The 'Socialism vs Capitalism' forum accepts Cappies, somewhat. The rest of the forums - including this one - certainly do not, it was made very clear, please follow the rules of the forums. Thanks.

[Acolombian]

Hey "Fires of History"

First of all you should learn to spell the name of the country right, it is not Columbia, it is Colombia.

Second, I have been to Cuba and I have a lot of Cuban friends, believe it or not. I have studied the Cuban subject for years and I think I know more of what is really going on that most of the people here anyway.

Third, in case you don't know Farc-EP are a bunch of terrorist who have been destroying my country for decades. And in case you don't know it either the DO NOT have the support of the majority of the population in Colombia. Only less than 10% of the population seems to like them. A proof of this is that the candidate whose only platform is to go to a full scale war with the guerrillas to get rid of them once and for all, is the one leading the polls with over 50% of intention of vote.

Lastly, grow up.

[CheGuevara]

I find it very interesting that Acolombian tells Fires of History not to use "that kind of language" while calling me a "guerrilla faggot".

Anyway, while the FARCs popular support may be low, it's definitely a shitload better than that of the AUC.

[I LOVE HO CHI MINH]

To all socialist:
Give your ok on the forum I will start to fuck JoseM and Acolombian of the site

[Acolombian]

CheGuevara:

I only insulted you because you insulted me first. I never just insult someone because of theie opinion on an issue.

And don't fool yourself, AUC has ten times the support among colombians than the guerrilla has. Just why do you think Alvaro Uribe is leading the polls????

And yeah, go tell mommy so they kick Jose and me out, you people cannot debate, I wonder why you even have a forum, you only accept people that think exactly like you !! Well, I know you guerrilla people are like that, so why would you be any different on the internet, if you don't like how somebody thinks just shot him off. Go ahead kick me out.

[I LOVE HO CHI MINH]

We accept people that think different on the Socialism vs capitalism forum

[Sasafrás]

Man, some of you can be complete assholes sometimes. Okay, I am by no means pro-America, anti-Communism/Socialism or anything of the sort (I respect you if you respect me), but I must say this..

Most of you leftists on here have problems with arrogance and hypocrisy. You expect to be respected by righters for your political beliefs but when right-wingers join on here (even though it is for leftists & Che admirers), you just disrespect them and use hideous language towards them, apparently not realizing how foolish it tends to make you all look. (Okay, I know I told FOREVER CAPITALISM to go swallow a knife, but that's not half as bad as the things some of you other leftists say. In fact, I'm probably nicer to them than anyone else here.) It's like, "Communism is not all it's cracked up to be and it's an extremely flawed system" and then come zillions of responses like "FUCK YOU, YOU RIGHT WING PIG SCUM ASSHOLE!!!!" It's ridiculous. Even though they sometimes act stupid, we don't have to do so with them.

But, please, right-wingers, do not assume that you know everything and try to tell us what we do and do not know. You're not Supreme Beings.

Peace & Love,

Shayla (La Rainbeaux)

[CheGuevara]

You are so full of shit. I insulted you because you have NO business being here. If you want to be here, you go to the Soc vs Cap forum. Otherwise, GET YOUR FUCKING ASS OUT. No, we do not accept people who only think exactly like us. Anyone of any slight leftist persuasion is allowed to post in any of the forums. If you look through, you'll see many arguments between many members, such as myself and IWDY, Vox and Peacenik, etc.

Every single Colombian I've talked to in person hates the paramilitaries, and some of the Colombians I've talked to were quite bourgeois. Every single one of them preferred the guerrillas to the paramilitaries(not to say that every single one of them liked the guerrillas, however) Yes, they probably have some support, mostly from the rich people and the big farmers, and their particular drug clientel. As for Ulribe's support, is there not a difference between support for trying to destroy the guerrillas and the AUCs killing of trade unionists and campesinos(I know Ulribe is far-right, but I didn't know he was that far right)? Anyway, at least we don't hack people to death with chainsaws.

[Acolombian]

La Rainbeaux: Good comments

CheGuevara: I still don't understand the point of having a "General Political debate" forum where you cannot really talk freely about politics. What are you so afraid of? Why do you feel so intimidated by my ideas? Oh, you just wanted other "companeros" to compliment you on how smart and bright you are so you can boost your self-steem. I knew you people were insecure, but I really didn't realize how much.

Uribe is not far right, he is a liberal as a matter of fact, he just wants to get rid of you guys as much as everybody else in Colombia, and he is not afraid to say it. You people just call "far-right" anyone who is against you, I am not even sure you people know what those words really actually mean.

As for the AUC, they are the sole consequence of the constant abuses by the guerrillas on the population. They were for the most part peasants that united to form a self defense force against you and your abuses.

Every action has a reaction. You cannot massacre and terrorize a population for decades and expect all of them to just put up with it and not do something about it. Citizens have the right to defend themselves.

And the AUC does not kill campesinos or trade unionists, they kill guerrilla members trying to pose as campesinos or trade unionists. You know well the tactics of the guerrillas to blend with the population. And you know they are inflitrated pretty much everywhere.

And stop spreading that fake propaganda about the AUC killing people with chainsaws. That is just not true. That is the kind of propaganda that the guerrillas have been trying to sell to Europe for quite a while. And it has worked for you pretty well, I might add. Bravo!, you guys are really the masters of hypocrisy. So you fooled some naive Europeans with that story and won some friends, good for you, but don't try to pull that crap on me.

Don't you think that if the majority of the people support Uribe, for the sole reason that he openly admits he wants to destroy the guerrillas, has something to do with them really disliking the guerrillas? Do you see the association here or did I go too fast?

Wake up!! Of course you are going to get unbiased opinions if you talk to colombians in guerrilla controlled zones. Nobody is stupid and they are not going to jeopardize their lives, knowing how open you people are to different opinions. The fact is that most people would like to wake up to a colombia free of guerrillas. I would personally love to wake up some day and know that all of you parasites of society are gone for good. It is the feeling of the masses.

And you don't have to believe me, just look at the polls. And if you don't want to believe the polls, then lets wait and see who's going to win the next elections!. Uribe is going to kick your ass!

[Fires of History]

La Rainbeaux,

As usual, you make a good point. And in general I show respect where respect is due. I think both JoseM and AcolUmbian know this isn't a place where we are just excitedly waiting for more capies to show up. However, my point was simply that I do not come here to debate with righties. That is why I generally avoid the SvC forum, because there really is no point. I am not going to change my views because of some fact or figure, and neither really would a capie. Those on the left are allowed to have a forum of their own. I know you know this, I'm just saying.

AcolUmbian,

Oh nevermind...

[vox]

Totally off topic here. I just wanted to say that, "Fuck both of you, motherless horse fuckers," is one of the funniest things I've fead in a while. Generally, stuff like that doesn't do much for me one way or the other, but this just struck me right. Hee!

I'm going to have to use that. :)

vox

[Menshevik]

Damn, yous guys are pretty harsh. Acolombian and JoseM were just stating their opinions. They weren't spewing right-wing garbage or anything, just their views. And to tell the truth, life in Cuba is no picnic, mainly because the US has made it that way, but I have been to Cuba and the general consent is that the people want Castro gone. There isn't a total hatred of the man, but his time has passed--I mean the guy's been in power for nearly half a century. So please try and lighten up.

[CheGuevara]

The Colombians I've talked to are all in the US, not in the guerrilla zone where they can't play favorites.

No, I don't come here to boost my self-esteem. In fact, quite a lot of the supposedly "leftist" members of this forum hate me, and my ideas in particularly. I won't go into that now...

Carlos Castaño himself admitted they killed trade unionists, and he did not put any tags on it about them being communists or guerrillas. He said something like "we kill trade unionists because they deny people work"

I think the presense of any of the campesinos in the cattle rancher's AUC has more to do with the drug money they get rather than "self-defence." It's a pretty assbackwards form of defence when you kill four times more campesinos than the enemy from which you're "protecting" them. Yes, you're right, the AUC is a result of the guerrillas, but it did not originate with the peasants, but with the rich cattle ranchers. Also, it's very likely rightwing paramilitary groups would've developed in Colombia without guerrillas, as they've done in other countries in Latin America.

Hmmmmm, if they guerrillas have "infiltrated pretty much everywhere," that would suggest quite a bit of support for them, wouldn't it? Or do they morph into trees and animals, and that's their form of infiltration?

Maybe the people support Uribe because they want the war to be over, and it's more likely that the guerrillas will kick the bucket than the government, so they're just accelerating the process?

The only parasites are you capitalist scum.


(Edited by CheGuevara at 4:01 am on May 4, 2002)

[elizquierdista]

The reason that the only place right wingers are accepted in the socialism-capitalism forum is because when discussions are started in the leftist forums it always ends up in curses and the subject taking a complete 180 degree turn.

Acolombian, FARC-EP had the support of the people. The problem is that they got way out of hand. As I've said before, in order for them to truly regain their Marxist cause, they must undergo structural and ideological change. For one, they must part from the drug trade, it has badly corrupted it.

ELN however is more true to its cause. They however do not have as much support, nor does it have a large number of members, only numbering in 5,000, while FARC has 40,000.

[PunkRawker677]

"I only insulted you because you insulted me first. I never just insult someone because of theie opinion on an issue."
i find this quite humorous because you insulted me and told me to "get out" in the cap vs soc board on a different post.

La Rainbeaux (dunno if i got the spelling right) has a great point but i have seem a very rapid decline in offensive language being used on this site. its taking a turn for the better.

[Son of Scargill]

http://www.narconews.com/narcocandidate1.html

[Fires of History]

CheGuevara,

Well said Comrade, nothing more to add. Every class has their army, and the AUC isn't exactly the people's.

Son of Scargill,

Great site, they even had a link to Colombia Watch (http://www.colombiawatch.org/).

AcolUmbian,

As for me, it is obvious that you failed to see that my entire post was done in jest. Do you honestly think that I have ever used the word 'gringo' in my entire life? I think it's funny that you point out my spelling when it was just part of the silliness of the post, as in ColUMBia, as in dUMB, as in CoDUMBia, as in they are DUMB, and will continue to be dumb until the government and the "official" army gets its act together and quits terrorizing the people. Although, maybe instead of Columbia, I should have said Colubya :)

My agent always said my comic genius was too subtle for the mainstream, and I guess he was right. Oh well...

[Sasafrás]

Quote: from vox on 3:16 am on May 4, 2002
Totally off topic here. I just wanted to say that, "Fuck both of you, motherless horse fuckers," is one of the funniest things I've fead in a while. Generally, stuff like that doesn't do much for me one way or the other, but this just struck me right. Hee!Yeah, "Guerrilla Faggot" is pretty funny too. :cheesy:


Quote: from Menshevik on 9:29 pm on May 3, 2002
Damn, yous guys are pretty harsh. Acolombian and JoseM were just stating their opinions. They weren't spewing right-wing garbage or anything, just their views. And to tell the truth, life in Cuba is no picnic, mainly because the US has made it that way, but I have been to Cuba and the general consent is that the people want Castro gone. There isn't a total hatred of the man, but his time has passed--I mean the guy's been in power for nearly half a century. So please try and lighten up.Menshevik, you make an extremely good point there. Remember, we try to prove to the right-wingers that we are not totally against free-speech, so let's allow them to make their 'points' without cussing the hell out of them.... :)


Fires of History, I understand what you mean. I don't think this site was ever meant to become a place where righties and lefties could debate, but once the right-wings began to infiltrate, that is what it has become and that is why Brother Malte has had to create the "Socialism v. Capitalism" forum (I barely visit it either). Though you sometimes say some pretty harsh words, I was really directing that toward Alejandro C (You know, the "Fuck both of you, motherless horse fuckers" one). That was just terrible, but yes, hella amusing.. ;)

[Acolombian]

Punk:
I have not been to the cap-socialist forum yet, so there is no way I could have insulted you there. You must be confusing me with someone else.

Fires of History:
You can believe whatever you want to believe. If you want to fool yourself by thinking that the AUC has not widespread support of the people, you are free to do so.

I said it before, but I'll say it again. I don't find you the least funny. Changing the name of my country to make your dumb word games isn't funny and it is disrespectful.

Not that the people in this forum know what respect is anyway. Having an icon of a burning American flag isn't very respectful either. You socialist people can continue blaming the US for every single problem in the World, and you can make in your mind reality whatever you want it to be. But the US is a country of 300 million people, all with very different backgrounds and political ideas, it is probably the most diverse country in the World. Thanks to the US, basic things like the internet exist, without which none of you commies and socialists would even be able to have this forum. As a matter of fact this site is American whether you like it or not.

I don't know, do you people really believe that if the US had not existed at all this would be a happy and successful World?

I hate to believe. We will probably all be still riding horses.

But ok, I respect your opinion. If you want to believe the US is bad, evil, and the source of all the problems in the World that is up to you, but be a man and show a little respect.

To all:
I've received quite a load of insulting messages in my inbox lately. Quite funny reactions.
I didn't mean to offend anyone, I was just here to state my opinion because I believed that was what forums were all about. The reason I didn't went to the cap-socialist forum in the first place was because I actually wasn't aware it existed. I just happened to find this website randomly and saw some posting that I highly disagreed with and felt I needed to comment.

I had no idea you people only wanted to hear from other people that think similar to you.

I apologize for that and I won't be bothering you with my messages any further after today. Not that I would want to anyway, it's pretty pointless.

[Acolombian]

As my goodbye to you people (don't worry this will be my very last posting so you people can breathe a little easier) i want to live you with a quote I found from someone in this forum. Read it, you might learn something. Or then again probably not.


Quote: from Capitalist Imperial on 9:47 pm on May 4, 2002

I think there are a few points we are missing here. I think most of us can agree that neither pure communism nor pure capitalism exists.The present systems that
contemporary empires are based on lie on a spectrum between the two theoretical
ideologies. Also, we could argue all day about the acadmic principles of each system,
but real world data proves that Capitalism is the much better system.The free-marketcapitalist system that America represents has produced the strongest
economy that has ever existed, and the best standard of living ever. Even America's
poor live relatively well. This is a measurable fact. Notions of exploitation of thirld world countries for the most part amount to nothing more than making excuses for nations that have not been as industrious, entrpenural, and ingeneous (and to some extent lucky) as the US has been. I mean, please, exploitation? What do you call standing in line 4 hours for a loaf of bread? Killing 50 million people (Stalin)? Crushing students in Tienemen square with tanks? What more needs to be said??? Another consideration is that capitalism encourages individual innovation and acheivement. This principle is proven in reality in that the vast majority of technological innovation that has benefitted humanity in the last 150 years has come out of the United States. This includes both the computer you are looking at and the internet you are communicating through. Also, we discuss exploitation of smaller countries by the U.S, but fail to address the fact that the US is by far the most humane and alturistic country on earth, both in terms of dollars spent (debt relief and direct monetary aid) and in people and organizations contrributing service and aid abroad. When there is a major natural disaster, what is the only country to contribute money and resources to assist in aid? The USA. I cant remember a time when the Soviets, Cuba, or China contributed to foreignrelief of any kind. Finally, immigration. The USA has quite a challenge accomodating the thousands of immigrants (worker-class, mind you) that enter its borders daily. Many of these people are risking both their and their family's life just for an opportunity to get in. Why? Because capitalist "workers" still live much better than communist or socialist"workers". Thats the bottom line. Needless to say, China, Cuba, and the then Soviet union (failed system,remember?) had no immigration problem. Their border control budgets were
allocated to keep people in!!! What does that tell us? Its a self explanatory phenomenon!!! So, we could argue academic and philisophical principals all day, but real world data and behavior makes it self evident that the American form of free-market Capitalism is by far the best system going today. Also, I have been pretty much discussing economic aspects of capitalism, to say nothing of the personal freedoms and the opportunity given to Amercian citizens to pursue success and what makes them happy. These fundamental principles are, to say the least, severely hindered by centrist governments. Look at real world activity, and you see the best real world system.

[BOZG]

Bye bye acolumbian. Don't come back wanker. And as for Capitalist Imperialist's post, that's the only thing they can ever say. That's been posted about 9 times as a reply.

[Alejandro C]

Just for a little clarification and explanation, because i feel that you all deserve one. First of all my first reaction to JoseM was to write him a very long and very polite e-mail explaining about the rules that we would like people to follow, and that it was disrespectful to just completely ignore them. I put some time into this because i thought it was important. Then, not only did he not have the decentecy to e-mail me back, but he kept posting stupic stuff on the forums. Then he or the cloUMBian said something about language and i put that up there to try and lighten them up about the cuss words and to get a point across that was very obviously not gotten through civilized means. I meant no disrespect to any of you.

(Edited by Alejandro C at 7:03 pm on May 5, 2002)

[Dan Majerle]

That is the second person to leave this forum. First FC and now ACOLOMBIAN. Come on guys let's stop the swearing and abuse and allow debate to continue. I don't want a forum where people are leaving because they feel they have been disrespected and insulted. That isn't right. Let's act mature and respect everyones opinion and most importantly debate it professionally. i.e. not resorting to profanity and threats

[CheGuevara]

If you want a debate with capitalists, go to Capitalism Vs Socialism. I don't think anyone here is saying that they shouldn't be allowed to post there. If they leave che-lives altogether, that's their problem.