A critique of authoritarian communists

[Subversive Pessimist]

I wrote this on another board a few minutes ago, but I feel that it needs to be said here also. This is not supposed to be a tirade, and it's not supposed to be a speech about all the cruelty in our world. I just feel that it needs to be said, no matter how stupid this may seem.

This is not a big problem on this forum, but if you take a look at forums like in the Ernesto-Guevara forum (http://www.ernesto-guevara.com/forums/)

A trend running in the communist sircles have increasingly disgust me. Some communists (often called stalinists) seem to me having an urge for authority. I won't use names, but one of them say that: "The masses needs me. I need to guide them, or else they are doomed."

They are hero worshippping leaders like Stalin, Mao,
And constantly praise countries like USSR under Stalin, China under Mao, and especially Kim Jong Il and Kim Il Sung

They have a strong hatred against anti-authoritarian people, like anarchists, and they often call anarchists "utopian" (these people forget that communists are by most people called utopian).

Some of them even claim that, in a communist society, one would have police and a (strong) state. This goes against our belief of a classless society without a state.

These people also celebrate the execution of civilians, like the beheading of
Nick Berg, among others. These people are also dogmatic people. They accuse you of being a "nazi scum", as fast as you say anything that could be the slightest of hint that the USSR might not have a "socialist dream" like they claim it is.

These people forget (perhaps they have never 'forgotten'. I guess most of them have never had the intentions as they claim they have:) A society without exploitation and authority. All they seem to desire is authority.

These people also call Kim Jong Il "the dear leader", and Kim Il Sung "the great leader". Phrases like "the vice and glorious leadership under Kim Jong Il/Kim Il Sung" are also often used.

And don't bring that "It's just a way of showing appreciation of the great leader, kim jong il". If you glorify leaders, and authority in general, you are not a communist. Period.

Again, this glorification of leaders go against our goal, and therefore I don't see why these people can be called communists.

These people lack "common sense", and forget what communism is all about.


Personally, I am to a certain extent ashamed to call myself a communist, because of these people. I am ashamed by some of my so-called "comrades", and I am ashamed that some people accepts this, or even advocate this sick piss. To a degree, I am also ashamed over myself that I actually have listened to these people in the past.

You claim to despise dictatorships, while in reality it is all you ever wanted.
Because you who are guilty of this is certainly not a comrade of mine.

[Dio]

I won't use names, but....

They are hero worshippping leaders like Stalin, Mao....

Im sorry i just found that really funny.

But anyway, who are you refering to that praised Stalin or Mao?

Looks like youre just venting hate for totalitarianism, but its not coming out coherent enough.

[Subversive Pessimist]

Guys at other forums. I gave you a link. It's just one example. Today it was like: "I want to be burried next to Lenin!" "Oo... Oh! Look at me! I hate anarchists! I hate Trotskyist! I love the dear leader!!"

Oh yes, and another one I heard a few days ago went like this:

"I am currently reading XXXX. but if Kim Jong Il didn't like it, I would gladly stop reading it!"

[Don't Change Your Name]

I'll post some quotes from those forums:


"A chicken in every pot, an ice axe in every trot"

About TAT getting banned:


I think he was a *****, he usually is when ive seen his posts. Not a good comrade at all.

?


TAT contacted my web host and made the claım that thıs sıte was ran by Fascısts and that racısm was common place on thıs board.

Funny because in fact that site is run by fascists!

They just don't like to admit it.


I have also seen TAT make posts at che-lives where he advocates legalization of incest and sex with children. He seems like a pretty degenerate guy if you ask me. Good thing he only came here to annoy us and make threats rather than seriously advocate his disgusting views on "sex"...

pseudo-communists playing the role of authoritarian priests without proofs.

They're a pathetic bunch of idiots that go around with their stalin's pics and pretend they are "great leaders" that can "guide the masses" to "eliminate the bourgeoisie".

[Vinny Rafarino]

Guys at other forums. I gave you a link. It's just one example. Today it was like: "I want to be burried next to Lenin!" "Oo... Oh! Look at me! I hate anarchists! I hate Trotskyist! I love the dear leader!!"


Listen son, please don't label these kids as "Stalininsts" as they are nothing but teenagers that find marching up and down the square exiting.

A true "Stalinist" is much more frightening then that. :lol:

Is it true that us "Stalinists" support the USSR prior to 1953, yes.

Is it true that us "Stalinists" support Castro and Kim?

Yes but not for the reasons you think. We support these regimes because it's the closest thing to socialism we have. Even in the event that Kim is a whacko (which I do not rule out by any means) he presents to us something tangible, something other than the myth of the "mighty USSR".

I personally belive that if we can use people like Kim for our own purposes, it will not be hard to convince the masses (post revolution of course) that his shit does not smell like daisys and replace him, or even eecute him if necessary.

Castro on the other hand has done a splendid job with the resources available to him, however if a revolution happened tomorrow and we won, if he refused to accomodate the people's wiches, he too would have to be removed or executed.

In addition, do not confuse the revolt against US imperialism as fanatical nonsense. Any true communist will privately or publically consider facts rather than swallow western nonsense word for word.

Was Saddam a swell cat? Probably not but that man did do something incredible, he stood up to the yanquis knowing full well he would eventually be slaughtered.

In any case believe what you want about us, we really don't care. We will still be here long after the most people have become bored with "being a rebel red".

So you know, real "Stalinists" have no desire to be buried next to anyone, even Lenin.


Now on to El whateverthefuck,


They're a pathetic bunch of idiots that go around with their stalin's pics and pretend they are "great leaders" that can "guide the masses" to "eliminate the bourgeoisie

Does that mean you do not think that the bourgeoisie must be eliminated? Do you think they are just going to "hand over" their pathetic way of life without a fight?

Grow up.


"A chicken in every pot, an ice axe in every trot"

I have to start using this one, it's good business.

[Subversive Pessimist]

I agree with you RAF that Castro has done a good job. I agree with you when you say that it's the closest to socialism we have. I do support the revolutions in India, Nepal, Colombia, and Peru, because that even how harsh they might be, it will weaken capitalism and the bougeoisie. However, a lot of leaders have abused their power. And some communists think of these leaders almost as Gods. That does not mean that everyone supporting Stalin are like that, but a lot of them are.

If they truly believe in the masses, they should in my opinion not glorify leaders. It's like what Castro said: "Leaders are humans, not Gods"


So you know, real "Stalinists" have no desire to be buried next to anyone, even Lenin.

Listen son, please don't label these kids as "Stalininsts" as they are nothing but teenagers that find marching up and down the square exiting.



Ah, good. I guess we can agree on that those people I'm talking about are a bunch of teenage wannabes.

[YKTMX]

Personally, I am to a certain extent ashamed to call myself a communist, because of these people.


That is unfortuanate comrade. It is true the word has been bastardized to mean something other than it's original meaning. China, for example, is still frequently referred to as "Communist"!

It is up to us Socialists and Communists to reclaim the word back from the tyrannies that use it (even if they are apportioned it unvoluntarily).

The word Communism for us revolutionaries should inspirse hope as our "ideal" of the future world; where power is removed from the equation in all human relationships.

And that is key for us here, we should aspire the make the world all it can be. For us real Socialists it is not a choice between this be bureaucracy (USSR) or that bureaucracy (Cuba). The choice as Rosa Luxembourg put I think is "Socialism or Barbarism"

[Vladimir]

"The masses needs me. I need to guide them, or else they are doomed."

Who said this?


These people also celebrate the execution of civilians, like the beheading of
Nick Berg, among others.

Would you have a link to where the majority of our board supported the beheading of Nick Berg? I have never seen anybody on E-G who supports the killing of civilians.


These people also call Kim Jong Il "the dear leader", and Kim Il Sung "the great leader". Phrases like "the vice and glorious leadership under Kim Jong Il/Kim Il Sung" are also often used.

These statements are never used by members of the E-G board. You are clearly making this up or exaggerating it at least.

You say you are ashamed of the members of E-G because they support Comrade Stalin. Not once have you took part in a debate about 'Stalinism' on our board. You have made 18 posts there. If you don't like out board, then stay here and stop complaining.

BTW, I am 'Vladimir' at E-G if you don't know.

[Subversive Pessimist]

Who said this?

Ever heard of Ixabert?


Would you have a link to where the majority of our board supported the beheading of Nick Berg? I have never seen anybody on E-G who supports the killing of civilians.


Ixabert and CheateN called the beheading of Nick Berg hilarious.


Read:
http://www.politicsforum.org/forum/viewtop...t=11275&start=0 (http://www.politicsforum.org/forum/viewtopic.php?t=11275&start=0)




CheateN: Hilarious!

Ixabert: I second that!

The man was an imperialist collaborator. I have not a trace of sympathy for him.


Here is a quote from another forum:


I would want my corpse encased and embalmed in glass, next to Lenin's. For me, that is the most honorable way I can rest. Or, if that is too expensive, I want my body burned and my ashes dumped from a plane over Landscheid, Germany.



These statements are never used by members of the E-G board. You are clearly making this up or exaggerating it at least.


The term "great leader", or "vice leadership" are often used in articles from North Korea, and also by Jucheists, like Ixabert, for instance.


You say you are ashamed of the members of E-G because they support Comrade Stalin.

I'm ashamed of the fact that some of them are dogmatic. I'm ashamed that some of them act like pricks, or laugh about the killings of civilians. This was not a post about the people at E-G, but a post about the general trend. There are probably people at E-G that are not like what I said, and this was not an attack against you, so please don't take it personally.


Not once have you took part in a debate about 'Stalinism' on our board. You have made 18 posts there. If you don't like out board, then stay here and stop complaining.


I had another nickname before, but I made a new one, because I forgot the password. What's funny is that your behavior are just like the Americans. "If you don't like it, fuck off". Is that what you want to become? A yankee?

[Vladimir]

Ixabert and CheateN called the beheading of Nick Berg hilarious.

No, ixabert did not say that the beheading of Nick Berg was hilarious. Read the entire thread. He said that he found it hilarious that people were disturbed by it.

However, I do not want to speak for Ixabert. If you have anything to say to him, put it to him at E-G.com or politicsforum. He posts at both regularly.


What's funny is that your behavior are just like the Americans. "If you don't like it, fuck off". Is that what you want to become? A yankee?

What are you trying to say?

[Don't Change Your Name]

Originally posted by Comrade [email protected] 31 2004, 06:33 AM
Does that mean you do not think that the bourgeoisie must be eliminated? Do you think they are just going to "hand over" their pathetic way of life without a fight?
No, but rather that they exaggerate their influence in a socialist society.


Grow up.

I really appreciate your advice <_<

[Pedro Alonso Lopez]

Most members of E-G are alright. Ixabert is crazy, I am sure of that but he is also quite intelligent.

You should see him destroying criticisms of the DPRK on thePhora, he knows his stuff. But as I have said before and he knows I think he is fucked up. By the way the members will be reading this so if any of you are afraid to criticise other people publically now is the time to stop.

Also some members are immature, J.Jordan is constantly evoking fundamentalists like Bin Laden but you have to remember tyhe site is heavily anti-American so that is going to happen.

RAF, I agree on a lot of what you said, I support any workers state, Cuba, DPRK (kind of) and even the USSR in general with the obvious reservations as most people here I think might but keep quiet in case they upset people on the board.

On a side note why are we discussin other people&#39;s board&#39;s over here? If you disagree take it to them and prove why they are wrong.

[UnionofSovietSocialistRepublics]

I see no obvious problem with E-G. There are very few people who i find to be annoying/make no relevant posts there.
As the forum is getting busier the level of discussion is improving all the time.

If you do not like E-G dont post there, simple as that. No ones going to make you
not even those "evil stalinists".

.....El Marko A K A UnionofSovietSocialistRepublics