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apathy maybe
29th July 2004, 08:23
I've been noticing discussions of the use of the terms 'nigger' and 'wigger'. And some people have complained that Che-lives is too 'politically correct'.

This term is obviously misunderstood by a lot of people, even our dear old (this is so why we need a sarcasm tag!) prime minister (if you're in Australia), doesn't seem to understand what it means (actually the old bustard may know what it means).

What it is, is not being offensive. It is there to "prevent people being offended". "[T]he core idea behind political correctness is that the terms are primarily designed to treat others with respect."

Now if we take this we can see that use of the term 'nigger', is not 'politically correct'. The reason being, it causes offence, and is not used as a term of respect (if it ever came to change its meaning, then it may become PC). Similarly 'wigger' is also meant to cause offence, or at least is used to denote that something is 'inferior' to something else.

There are cases where people go too far; when they start getting ridiculess in the name of being 'politically correct. Some of these cases are related to computers. Recently someone (somepeople?) was complaining about the arrangement of hard drives. There are 'masters' and 'slaves'. Now this came about because of the way they are arranged in the computer (and how they are connected up etc). But it was thought that it might cause offence to black people in the USA.
Similarly the 'man' command in Unix (and Linux & Mac OS X) has been criticised. It is short for manual and when used shows information about a command. It was introduced when space was at a premium on hard drives (they may not even have had them!). The obvious problem is that there is no woman command (though it has been suggested that one could be put in, but the joke is likely to cause offence (be 'politically incorrect')).

There are some cases where being 'politically incorrect' is all right (so long as you don't really mean it). Where your comments won't cause offence (or are unlikely) to anyone present (which is why you only hear jokes about woman in all male company; and probably why I don't hear to many jokes about men).
So long as you don't really mean it is the problem. If I told a joke about a dumb woman, I would tell it solely for its laugh factor. I would complain if someone who I knew were sexist told the same joke, however; he probably would mean it (One example of this where the person actually means it is http://www.conservativecartoons.com/cartoo....gif&year=1995) (http://www.conservativecartoons.com/cartoon.php?toon=pushup.gif&year=1995)). Jokes about Irish (and Polish as well apparently) people are often told (hear about the latest Irish invention? Solar powered torch!). These jokes are funny, but you could replace them with any stereotype (hear about the latest [blond|Polish|black|etc] invention? a wooden barbecue). And the function originally was to reinforce those stereotypes.

Being politically correct doesn't require much effort (no at all?). It isn't a bad thing (as some right-wingers would have). All it means is being respectful of other people. It does include having to think up new insults (fag doesn't really cut it, and what is wrong with being a girl anyway?); but this isn't hard. Smeg-head, foolish lout and ignorant are all acceptable (in my books) 'cause they can be changed if true (well maybe being a smeg-head isn't changeable).


http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Political_correctness
http://www.users.bigpond.com/smartboard/pc.htm (right-wing alert)
http://pcwatch.blogspot.com/ (right-wing alert)

redstar2000
29th July 2004, 12:28
The funny thing about the term "politically correct" is that it originated, if I'm not mistaken, in the Third International and was meant quite seriously; to be "politically correct" on an issue was to be in agreement with Uncle Joe.

After the collapse of the "new left" in the late 70s, it became a self-mocking term among veterans of that period; I remember seeing buttons in Berkeley saying "Politically Correct".

Who would have guessed that a left "in-joke" would become a right-wing demon?

:redstar2000:

The Redstar2000 Papers (http://www.redstar2000papers.fightcapitalism.net)
A site about communist ideas

Saint-Just
29th July 2004, 14:38
I think political correctness is good. Even when people use politically incorrect jokes they have shown unsocial behaviour. Politically incorrect terms are wrong, such as the words specified above, and it is not right to use them in jokes since they need to be banished completely and never resurrected, not even in harmless humour.

The right-wing concerns itself with political correctness since it is an ideology that promotes opression of persyn over persyn and inequality. It is because of this that the right-wing often sees sexism and racism as acceptable attitudes to adopt.

Politically incorrect words are not only wrong but unnecessary, jokes can be told without being sexist or racist and people can have happy lives without using prejudicial language.

antieverything
29th July 2004, 16:37
I understand that recognizing stereotypes, even satirically, contributes to the limitations the existance of stereotypes produces on the self-image of those stereotyped but I refuse to sacrifice sarcasm for any cause ;)

monkeydust
29th July 2004, 17:54
Political correctness may seem all well and good, but I've always felt that many of its proponents have lost sight of the goal they originally sought to achieve.

I would assume that political correctness was brought about primarily with the intention of reducing discrimination and division by outlawing the use of derogatory terminology.

This is fine, in principle, and I'd usually treat anyone using terms like "paki" or "nigger" with scorn.

My problem with political correctness, however, comes when it is either imposed with excessive force or invoked unnecessarily.

When people feel that they "can't say something", they begin to actually resent groups even further; feeling that minorities are treated with "positive discrimination" and that politicans side with them. This tends to create further division, as traditional racial majorities, for example, feel that they themselves are being "repressed" but minorities. This view was actually expressed quite strongly in the recent documentary regarding the BNP.

I also get thoroughly annoyed when "political corectness" is taken to extremes and completely out of context: for example, when a joke involving a social stereotype (which all involved know is untrue) is unrelentingly showered with criticism for the wrong reasons.

I welcome "poltical correctness" as a social phenomenon in which language involves and adapts to suit racial and social equality. But as a means imposed "from the top" to outlaw the use of words whilst not actually changing (and in fact nurturing) racism in itself it is futile in the extreme.

Lefty
29th July 2004, 21:46
I think political correctness is using less offensive language in order to reduce the number of people angered by what you say.

imperator
30th July 2004, 08:56
i wonder.. it's considered low, politically ilncorrect, to insult other people for their weight or sexual preference. does that mean insulting people for their intelligence is just as bad? because last i checked, a low intellect cant be helped...

just a thought ;)

DaCuBaN
30th July 2004, 09:12
i wonder.. it's considered low, politically ilncorrect, to insult other people for their weight or sexual preference. does that mean insulting people for their intelligence is just as bad? because last i checked, a low intellect cant be helped...


Indeed - it is a form of egoism, and a horrible thought. Ignorance is however preventable, but I shudder from using the word. Ever since I saw SP parody Jacko, I can't take the word seriously.

Personally, political correctness is absolute bollocks. If I offend you, I will apologise and the word will be struck from my vocabulary when dealing with that individual. I think RS put it best:


it originated, if I'm not mistaken, in the Third International and was meant quite seriously; to be "politically correct" on an issue was to be in agreement with Uncle Joe.

In other words it originates from an authoritarian...

apathy maybe
2nd August 2004, 03:15
Ignorence can be helped. If someone is ignorent in todays world, they havn't been trying.

The idea is to use language that won't offend; not just a particular word.
Sure you can use a different vocab with every person, but hey I find it easier not to.