A question i need answering

[bunk]

A core principle of Marx is,

"From each according to his ability, to each according to his need."

Now, in the government-free ideal communist state... WHO decides how much a person "needs?" WHO decides how much ability a person has, and therefore the amount they "should" be producing?

If your answer is "community" or "society" or "the dictator of the proliteriat," then I spy a contradiction:

That person or group would necessarily need the power to enforce his (or their) decisions. This would be, by definition, a government.

Without this power, this is what would happen:

Communist Council: "Okay, Bob, according to our calculations, you don't need that extra corn this week. Give it up to the commune, please."

Bob: "No."

Communist Council: "Well, crap."

note: this is copy and pasted from a capitalist site for time reasons.

[Faceless]

You make the relationship sound very linear. For a start the man himself is an equal member of this society but I doubt that all people will be prescribed this or that share. The relationship would be mutual. People would negotiate what is needed. No one would dictate these issues. To a certain point citizens would just take goods that are in bountiful supply. In Maoist China this meant that people were allowed to take as many servings as they wanted from a communal eating place. This naturally contributed to famine. China was emerging from Feudalism. I think Mao overestimated China's production relative to mouths which needed feeding.

[Archpremier]

Nobody 'calculates' need. There is no corn accountant. The corn is there for the taking, and whoever wants some can get some. It would become extremely obvious if someone were taking too much corn.

[Karo de Perro]

and while theyre watchin the corn field I ll snick into the potato patch ... lol ...

What a horrible situation we have here ... those with short hair complain that those with long hair are using much more shampoo than they ... then of course all the bald people ***** about both for using shampoo while they havent the need ... lol ...

man am I damn glad that we dont all have to be communists and anarchists ... lol ...

I myself am a firm proponent of the socialist state and as such the issue of this thread is really no issue at all ... although it should make all neo-communists and anarchists scratch their fuckin heads quite abit ... lol

[Don't Change Your Name]

Originally posted by [email protected] 27 2004, 07:53 PM
Now, in the government-free ideal communist state... WHO decides how much a person "needs?" WHO decides how much ability a person has, and therefore the amount they "should" be producing?
NOBODY!

The argument is useless now

[redstar2000]

The hidden assumption in these questions is not very well hidden after all.

The pro-capitalist imagines himself suddenly transported to a communist society. Naturally, he will grab as much as he can while doing as little work as possible.

That's what people do in capitalist society...it's the rational strategy for both survival and prosperity.

Actual inhabitants of a classless society think differently.

You decide what you need and take it...while operating under the assumption that taking more than you can actually use would be wasteful...and shameful.

You also decide what you will produce and how much...with the assumption that you will be free to choose work that is interesting and enjoyable to you. Perpetual idleness is boring...and the social life of a known parasite is apt to be quite limited.

These are considerations that the defenders of capitalism simply cannot imagine...any more than a feudal lord could imagine capitalism or its ideas.

They are literally unthinkable.

:redstar2000:

The Redstar2000 Papers (http://www.redstar2000papers.fightcapitalism.net)
A site about communist ideas

[DaCuBaN]

These are considerations that the defenders of capitalism simply cannot imagine...any more than a feudal lord could imagine capitalism or its ideas

Indeed... the question begs to be asked: Must there be a 'final solution'? Are these capitalist defenders truly a 'write-off'?

I believe this is why Marx invisaged a period of socialism prior to Communism.... allow a generation to grow up, being taught to be altruistic. By the time you are one or two generations in, there will (hopefully) be few enough 'defenders' that the goal of an altruistic society will be possible

At least this was my perception of it...