Log in

View Full Version : Actions like this DO NOT help the cause!!



colombiano
26th July 2004, 22:42
Colombian Rebels Kidnap Catholic Bishop

Mon Jul 26,12:58 PM ET Add World - AP to My Yahoo!


By JAVIER BAENA, Associated Press Writer

BOGOTA, Colombia - The smaller of Colombia's two main leftist rebel groups kidnapped a Catholic bishop but planned to set him free bearing a political message for the government, officials said Monday.



Misael Vacca Ramirez, the Bishop of Yopal, was traveling with two other priests and a local mayor in the eastern Casanare region Saturday when they were stopped by members of the National Liberation Army, or ELN, said Monsignor Fabian Marulanda, secretary-general of the Bishop's Conference.


The rebels held them overnight near the town of Morcote, 220 miles northeast of Bogota, before freeing the two priests and the mayor. They wouldn't release Vacca Ramirez, 48, however, and said he would be freed unharmed at a later date with a message.


"We were detained on Saturday by men in uniform who said they were from the ELN," the mayor of Nunchia, Jose del Carmen Galvis, told local radio. "They told us to wait because they needed (to talk to) the bishop, and on Sunday morning, two others came and carried him up into the mountains."


Vacca Ramirez had been involved in peace efforts between the government, rebels and right-wing paramilitary groups battling for control of the oil-rich Casanare and Boyaca regions when he was abducted, officials said.


Marulanda condemned the kidnapping.


"We are hoping it won't last long," he said. "But we request and require that Monsignor Misael's life is respected."


Interior Minister Sabas Pretelt said troops in the region have been searching for signs of the kidnappers.


"We are very concerned by the news, but so far the search hasn't yielded results," Pretelt told reporters.


A senior jailed ELN commander, Francisco Galan, told The Associated Press that he didn't know if his group was responsible for the abduction. He was trying to contact rebel leaders in their jungle hideouts.


Galan acts an intermediary between the government and the ELN's high command and is permitted to speak with commanders via radio from his jail cell.


The ELN has been trying to find common ground recently for peace talks with the government. It is one of two Colombian rebel groups that have led a 40-year-old campaign to topple the government and establish a Marxist-style state.


The ELN's high command sent an open letter to the president of Colombia's Senate on Monday that made no mention of Vacca Ramirez's kidnapping but urged lawmakers to play a greater role in an eventual peace process.


The group reiterated its three demands for holding peace talks: an accord limiting the use of land mines, the release from jail of all ELN prisoners and a bilateral cease-fire.


"Today we still don't have a concrete response (from the government) to the three points," the communique said. "The ELN's commitment to peace is irrevocable."


President Alvaro Uribe has said he is ready to suspend military operations against the ELN if the group first declares a cessation of hostilities. He has not publicly commented, however, on the demand for the release of prisoners.


The hard-line Uribe is keen to reach a peace deal with the ELN. The government's bitter fighting against the larger Revolutionary Armed Forces of Colombia, or FARC, makes peace talks with that group unlikely, at least for now.





The Catholic church is deeply involved in peace efforts in Colombia, often putting the lives of clergymen at risk as one group or another sees them as being to close to an enemy. Over the past 20 years, an archbishop, a bishop, at least 50 priests and three nuns have been murdered. Dozens of others have been kidnapped.

The ELN was blamed for the 1989 kidnap-murder of the Bishop of Arauca, Jesus Emilio Jaramillo, in the same region where Vacca Ramirez was taken.

Colombia's conflict claims an estimated 3,500 lives every year.

fuerzasocialista
26th July 2004, 22:57
The FARC is in no way Marxist nor progressive. They are a bunch of thugs. Ellos son unos comemierda!!!

colombiano
26th July 2004, 23:37
The accusations are against the ELN not the FARC.

fuerzasocialista
27th July 2004, 01:36
Whether its the ELN or the FARC, they commit the same bullshit. Kidnapping and secuestering non-military civilians shows that they are opportunists and not true revolutionaries. The FARC and the ELN are both guilty of this.

Never Forget, Never Surrender
27th July 2004, 02:12
It seems to me that these guerillas aren't all that different from the LRA or some of the other militias in Africa. They're bred by the same disease; why are we shocked when the symptoms are the same?

Guerrilla22
27th July 2004, 06:20
and why is it so bad to kidnap a religious figure head? The Catholic church has supported the oppressive government in Colombia and likewise in other Latin American nations for years, the ELN has every right to target their opposition.

fuerzasocialista
27th July 2004, 06:35
and why is it so bad to kidnap a religious figure head? The Catholic church has supported the oppressive government in Colombia and likewise in other Latin American nations for years, the ELN has every right to target their opposition

If there is one thing that Colombians are, its very Catholic. If the "guerrillas" kidnap a Catholic priest, it only helps to tarnish their image in the eyes of the great majority of Colombians.

Also, the ELN has also kidnapped regular civilians and held them for ransom. Trying to get from Barranquilla to Bogota will more times than none get you kidnapped if you are not with people that know how to drive. Also, there have been allegations that the FARC and the ELN are then "bodyguards" of the Cali cartel, helping them move there shipments to port. It actually make sense cause where are they gonna get the money to but weapons, food and shelter while they are out there in the jungle??

Subversive Pessimist
28th July 2004, 20:20
No matter cruel they must be, they probably have some political goals. As we all know, christians believe atheists are going to burn in hell, so to be honest, I don't feel very sorry for that priest. But you are right, it only helps to tarnish their image. I would wish the war in Colombia would be a more "clean fight".

bunk
28th July 2004, 20:23
How can they fight a clean fight when the right-wing death squads are hunting them down armed with US superior weapons.

Guerrilla22
29th July 2004, 02:13
I'm sure this Bishop spent plenty of time spewing anti-guerrilla, conservative, pro-government rhetoric to the general population, the ELN did the people a favor by kidnapping him.

fuerzasocialista
29th July 2004, 04:41
I wouldn't even dignify the ELN or the FARC for that matter by calling them guerrillas. They have done nothing to deserve that title. They don't even have the support of the campesinos and peasantry in the interior of Colombia. Perhaps they started out differently, but it didn't take long for their movements to take a turn for the worst.

Dr. Rosenpenis
29th July 2004, 15:10
If there is one thing that Colombians are, its very Catholic. If the "guerrillas" kidnap a Catholic priest, it only helps to tarnish their image in the eyes of the great majority of Colombians.

That's pretty reactionary.
It's not our job to appease to the religious right. The fact that most Bolivians are Catholics proves the magnitude of the problem of religion. I see nothing wrong with kidnaping these ass-holes.

fuerzasocialista
29th July 2004, 15:40
I don't seem to remember Fidel and Che running around kidnapping people. Correct me if I'm wrong.

Dr. Rosenpenis
29th July 2004, 15:44
No, they killed their enemies beacuse it was a revolution....
Would you be more satisfied if the ELN killed the bishop. I certainly wouldn't mind.

fuerzasocialista
29th July 2004, 17:04
So you wouldn't consider what the ELN and FARC are trying to instigate is a revolution? What is the killing of the bishop going to accomplish?? Absolutely nothing. All it will do is promote them as thugs and terrorists. They do not have the support system Che and Fidel had because their goals have nothing to do with the advancement of Marxism. They aren't fighting for the poor, they are fighting for themselves.

Dr. Rosenpenis
29th July 2004, 19:17
How is kidnapping the bishop not fighting for the poor?

fuerzasocialista
30th July 2004, 03:19
Well, how is kidnapping a bishop helping the poor? Apparently you know something I don't so lets hear it.

Kez
1st August 2004, 13:36
the issue is not what the Bishop is, the bishop is a twat.

However, the guerillas must not isolate themselves from the masses, and these actions do just that.

Were supposed to win the masses over, not further them away from us.

it is a matter of methodoloy rather than theory.

Subversive Pessimist
1st August 2004, 13:43
I agree. The bishop might not be an angel (no pun intended), but kidnapping bishops are not helping their cause. I'm related to the arch bishop of Pakistan. He is wearing Hells Angels motorsycle jacket and is a really good guy, so I don't think we should judge anyone we don't know personally. On the other hand, I don't feel sorry for the bishop, but like Kez said, kidnapping bishops and priests are isolating themselves from the masses, and that is not good.

Dr. Rosenpenis
1st August 2004, 13:58
Originally posted by [email protected] 1 2004, 08:36 AM
the issue is not what the Bishop is, the bishop is a twat.

However, the guerillas must not isolate themselves from the masses, and these actions do just that.

Were supposed to win the masses over, not further them away from us.

it is a matter of methodoloy rather than theory.
Oh, d'you mean appeasing to the ass-holes with a bourgeois-mentality? No thanks.

Why should the bishop be kidnapped?
because.... meh, forget it. Read some Marx then get back to me.

YKTMX
1st August 2004, 20:40
Guerillas are stupid, this is merely an example of it.

Colombia
2nd August 2004, 11:49
What else is new.Colombia's attempts to have peace talks will never work.The idea of selling cocaine and making millions is too tempting for the guerillas to pass up.

h&s
2nd August 2004, 12:54
The idea of selling cocaine and making millions is too tempting for the guerillas to pass up.
At least this lets us prove that the guerillas are not leftist at all - they are capitalist.

fuerzasocialista
2nd August 2004, 13:09
Those guerillas are as Marxist as Bush....

bunk
2nd August 2004, 14:26
They may not be as marxist as they were but how other than selling crack are they going to be able to survive from right wing death squads they need the cash to keep up in equipment terms.

Colombia
2nd August 2004, 14:32
Originally posted by [email protected] 2 2004, 02:26 PM
They may not be as marxist as they were but how other than selling crack are they going to be able to survive from right wing death squads they need the cash to keep up in equipment terms.
I want you to go out and see Maria Full of Grace.

fuerzasocialista
2nd August 2004, 14:51
Marxists idealists and guerillas selling drugs are nothing more than traitors to the cause. Not only are they now part of the capitalist hipocracy but they are also contributing to the degradation of society.

Dr. Rosenpenis
2nd August 2004, 21:02
Can you show me some evidence that the guerillas sell cocaine? Was it in the article? Maybe I missed that part....

fuerzasocialista
3rd August 2004, 03:16
It has been well documented in various articles and news broadcasts. From personal experience, I have had encounters with people related to the Cali Cartel and the Medellin Cartel when it was a under the direction of Pablo Escobar and that first made me aware of that situation. That was the first time I had heard of it. From my understanding, it is common knowledge in Colombia. This is partly the reason as to why the FARC and ELN have not gained national support.

antieverything
3rd August 2004, 04:00
This is some of the stupidest bullshit I've ever had the misfortune of reading!

Does the FARC-EP participate in the drug trade to fund its operations? Hell yes.

Do Right-wing Paramilitary groups do the same thing? Yep.

Is the entire Colombian political system corrupted by the drug trade as well? You bet!

<_< So, there you have it.


On the bishop-napping...yep, pretty fucking stupid. How do you gain the support of the masses? I&#39;m pretty sure you don&#39;t do it by kidnapping a religous leader in a country where most people are Catholics&#33;

MiniOswald
3rd August 2004, 09:48
They only did this kidnapping to try and get attention. They&#39;re fading away, they&#39;ve got nothing like the members they did back in the 80&#39;s. hell the PBB will outnumber them soon enough&#33; Point is groups like FARC and ELN and all that are going the same way as that shining path group did.

h&s
3rd August 2004, 12:56
Yeah what happened to the Sendoro Luminoso (crap speeling I know)?
Didn&#39;t they control 40 % of the country at one stage?

Colombia
3rd August 2004, 18:15
Sendoro Luminoso?I have never heard of them in Colombia.The FARC did though for some time control part of the country that was supposedly the size of Switcherland.