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View Full Version : Sinn Fein Betrays Ardoyne During Orange Seige



PRC-UTE
26th July 2004, 09:26
Sinn Fein has betray its own base of support in a very dramatic way and this is an interesting issue. At the very least, the Irish Republican Movement has served as a defense force for vulnerable nationalist communities.

What this ultimately teachs us is that narrow republicanism will always bring about accomodation with the ruling class and thus their sectarian and racist policies.


SF-Protecting the Brits!
by MM Monday, Jul 12 2004, 9:46pm

Sectarian march being forced throught nationalist area by armed RUC/Brits/SF!!
I am shocked! I am absolutely stunned!

I am so angry at what I witnessed just now. I AM REPUBLICAN, and I just witnessed former comrades punch and beat residents off the streets and off Brits in my own community. People/residents, who like myself objected to a sectarian march being forced through nationalist area by armed RUC/Brits/SF!!

I just want to ask, What the fuck is happening when I just witnessed Provies attacking members of their own community from getting stuck into bastards who had us under siege all day!

Is this what we have come to, beating people for the sake seats at Stormont. What I saw today has chance the way in which I see my life and the politics that I thought I had in common with fellow republicans. I feel sick and angry, I am in shock and in disbelief. I turn to a neighbour on the way who asked me "did I really see what happened there?"

I have to say that I felt the question running through my head.

Am I the enemy now? Does SF/Provies see me and the community that I belong to as the enemy for opposing a sectarian march and all that comes in its path?

If that is what it takes to have a few seats in power then I'm afraid these people no longer represent me!!

MM
Occupied North Belfast
+++++++++++++++

Thread continues at:
http://www.indymedia.ie/newswire.php?story...se#comment81654 (http://www.indymedia.ie/newswire.php?story_id=65938&condense_comments=false#comment81654)



Astounding! IRA men shield Brit soldiers from rioters
By Jim Dee/ Special to the Herald
Tuesday, July 13, 2004

BELFAST, Northern Ireland - A Protestant march through a Catholic area of North Belfast triggered sharp rioting yesterday before members of the outlawed Irish Republican Army intervened to stop violence from spiraling out of control. No serious injuries were reported.

In scenes unimaginable before the 11-year-old Irish peace process began, top IRA men rushed to rescue a dozen besieged British soldiers from a stick-wielding mob of pro-Irish nationalists.

Many of the IRA men, along with top officials of the Sinn Fein party, endured heavy verbal and physical abuse from the angry crowd as they struggled to quell the intermittent rioting.

The trouble began when police and soldiers swamped the Catholic Ardoyne district to shepherd through a Protestant Orange Order march. Heavily armored jeeps and 200 yards of 12-foot metal barriers were used to create a secure corridor through which Orangemen marched.

The march, commemorating the 1690 Battle of the Boyne that helped secure the Protestant ascendancy to the British throne, was OK'd by the British-appointed Parades Commission. But Orange supporters were forbidden from accompanying marchers up the contested stretch of road.

Nonetheless, about five minutes after 60 Orangemen were rushed through the steel corridor, about 100 of their supporters were also guided through by riot police - a clear breach of the commission's restrictions. That's when angry nationalists, who'd already traded brief barrages of rocks and bottles with Orange backers on the other side of the wall, exploded.

``How you stop all this is simple: Stop anti-Catholic marches going through Catholic areas,'' Sinn Fein's Gerry Kelly, a former IRA prisoner who was hit in the face by a nationalist while trying to shield soldiers from attacks, told the Herald after the rioting had subsided.

ÑóẊîöʼn
26th July 2004, 09:31
I suggest all Sinn Fein supporters give up any Marxist pretensions they may have, Irish republicanism/nationalism has nothing to do with the concerns of communists.

RedAnarchist
26th July 2004, 09:57
To suggest that the Left is connected in any way to Irish Republicans/Nationalists is a huge insult to the Left. Oglach, unless you are a Communist, Anarchist or Socialist, you are not welcome. Sorry, but this is a leftist forum.

Ian
26th July 2004, 10:07
NOT FUCKING WELCOME XPHILE?! ARE YOU FUCKING STUPID!? Fighting for your liberty is pretty fucking communist the way I see it.

Learn some history, the comrades in Occupied Northern Ireland have been fighting an anti-imperialist struggle for hundreds of years, frankly if you're put off such a leftist issue by a few bombs then you need to learn not to be so fucking knee-jerk about it.

ÑóẊîöʼn
26th July 2004, 10:35
NOT FUCKING WELCOME XPHILE?! ARE YOU FUCKING STUPID!? Fighting for your liberty is pretty fucking communist the way I see it.

Depends on what you are fighting for: If you're fighting to set up a capitalist nation with masters who happen to be Irish instead of British, then that is not remotely related to class struggle.


Learn some history, the comrades in Occupied Northern Ireland have been fighting an anti-imperialist struggle for hundreds of years, frankly if you're put off such a leftist issue by a few bombs then you need to learn not to be so fucking knee-jerk about it.

They are not my comrades; they are murderous thugs along with the UDA.

Ian
26th July 2004, 10:53
Originally posted by [email protected] 26 2004, 08:35 PM
Depends on what you are fighting for: If you're fighting to set up a capitalist nation with masters who happen to be Irish instead of British, then that is not remotely related to class struggle.

You believe that? You've lost the plot, a sovereign nation is a lot closer to a communist nation than a puppet state.

PRC-UTE
26th July 2004, 11:05
To suggest that the Left is connected in any way to Irish Republicans/Nationalists is a huge insult to the Left. Oglach, unless you are a Communist, Anarchist or Socialist, you are not welcome. Sorry, but this is a leftist forum.

To suggest that you can not be Left and an IR is an insult to our intellegence.

As Marx argued, the breakup of the British state via a liberated Ireland would facilitate a workers revolt and possible revolution. The Irish Republican Socialist Party aims to fight for a Workers Republic which cannot possibly occur under British (English) occupation.

Why don't you want to see the breakup of the British imperialist/capitalist state?

And even if I weren't left, your attitude is strange. Don't you want to convince more people that socialism is the only alternative to barbarism, not just lecture to the converted?


Depends on what you are fighting for: If you're fighting to set up a capitalist nation with masters who happen to be Irish instead of British, then that is not remotely related to class struggle.


I agree, a 32 county capitalist Irish Republic is not worth fighting for, as our founder, James Connolly argued. That is why we must expose SF for what it is - a capitalist party - b/c it claims to be socialist.


Learn some history, the comrades in Occupied Northern Ireland have been fighting an anti-imperialist struggle for hundreds of years, frankly if you're put off such a leftist issue by a few bombs then you need to learn not to be so fucking knee-jerk about it.



They are not my comrades; they are murderous thugs along with the UDA.

While I have specific criticisms of the armed campaign waged over the last 35 years, (secret command structures, occasional randomness in military attacks, adhering to conventional methods of war) I have to ask, do you expect progress without violence?

The Irish National Liberation Army should be supported as they are fighting for a Workers Republic (which neccesitates an English withdrawal) and do not adhere to the vanguardist guerilla style tactics of the various IRA's.

ÑóẊîöʼn
26th July 2004, 11:08
It doesn't make a difference what nationality your masters are.

I don't think a Marxist-Leninist despotism would make a difference either.

PRC-UTE
26th July 2004, 11:19
I don't think a Marxist-Leninist despotism would make a difference either.

eh? the IRSP/INLA are multi-tendencied. We don't advocate a ML despotism, we argue for a Workers Republic.


It doesn't make a difference what nationality your masters are.


you are avoiding the issue. I'm talking about the break-up of the British imperialist state and for some reason you are oppossing this.

closet imperialists?

RedAnarchist
26th July 2004, 11:26
Oglach, i apologise for suggesting you are not welcome if you are not an Anarchist/Socialist/Communist. Of course you are welcome if you are leftist in some way.
My personal view of the Republicans is that, whilst i would love to see a Communist Ireland, Communist England, Communist Alba and Communist Cymru, i will only support those who aim for a Communist Ireland in Ireland.

Sinn Fein are not Marxists - they might be left-wing, but they dont seem to be Marxist.

The Irish proletariat must not fight for a liberated 32-County Eire, but a liberated Communist Eire. Whilst throwing off the British imperilaist chains, you must also throw off the capitalist one as well.

PRC-UTE
26th July 2004, 11:51
Oglach, i apologise for suggesting you are not welcome if you are not an Anarchist/Socialist/Communist. Of course you are welcome if you are leftist in some way.

Ná bi buatha é. Don't worry about it.


Sinn Fein are not Marxists - they might be left-wing, but they dont seem to be Marxist.


That's my point, too. That's why I started this thread. I want to create more support for Republican Socialism, which the IRSP struggles for ( www.irsm.org ) and we need to expose SF as the traitors and collaboraters they are.


The Irish proletariat must not fight for a liberated 32-County Eire, but a liberated Communist Eire. Whilst throwing off the British imperilaist chains, you must also throw off the capitalist one as well.


Our founder, James Connolly, said the same thing. I agree completely.