TUPAC a Revolutionary or Street Thug?

[colombiano]

His connection with the black Panter party and all the other factors in and surrounding his life. Ex, going from Black Panther Party Youth Leader to a materialistic Rapper waiving cash around what are your thoughts please? ;)

[Fidelbrand]

If in the short future, he is doing work for some kind of charity or fighting for some cause for the good of mankind, then i might believe he has some leftist leanings, otherwise.... A good old cappie THUG.

[Capitalist Imperial]

a little of both, I prefer the cash waving

[Y2A]

Some black guy from the ghetto makes it up and some dumbass white kids consider him a hero, indeed.

[Capitalist Imperial]

Originally posted by [email protected] 21 2004, 03:21 PM
Some black guy from the ghetto makes it up and some dumbass white kids consider him a hero, indeed.
LOL, good shot Y2A, right on target my friend, LOL

[Y2A]

It's retarded. Nobody talks about blacks and hispanics that make it up by working in factories but a black rapper, now there's a hero young white "rebels" can adore.

[Comrade Marcel]

Q: TUPAC a Revolutionary or Street Thug?

A: A Revolutionary Street Thug.

Just because someone is a lumpen, or a criminal to capitalist society doesn't mean they can not be a progressive revolutionary.

Stalin executed daring robberies to help fund the Bolsheviks .

Listen to some of 2pac's stuff like "Changes" or "Keep ya' head up".

Also, 2pac's mom was a Black Panther Party member.

[Comrade Marcel]

Originally posted by [email protected] 21 2004, 03:13 PM
If in the short future, he is doing work for some kind of charity or fighting for some cause for the good of mankind, then i might believe he has some leftist leanings, otherwise.... A good old cappie THUG.
Uh... I don't think he will be doing anything in the future, since he is dead. :lol:

[Hampton]

Some black guy from the ghetto makes it up and some dumbass white kids consider him a hero, indeed.

I don't think it's just white kids that would consider him a hero, although I think hero is too strong of a word to use. But since half of your crap is about middle class white kids doing or being something other than what they are supposed to be, whatever that may be, your response is typical blind ramblings of stupidity.

He is someone that a lot of people admire, and admiring him is not race exclusive just like his music wasn't, so people who listen to it are not "stealing the culture".

Tupac was never a panther youth leader, when he was born the Panthers were, by pretty much all means, dead. His mother was one of the New York Panther 21, his father was in the BLA, his step father is political prisoner Mutulu Shakur, and godfather was Geronimo Pratt.

If I had to say what he was, he was never totally one of the other. When his first album came out (2Pacalypse Now) it was overtly political and tapped on many issues and problems facing people. That never left his music, but what started to come into his music was what most people consider him to be, just a guy who curses about women and money and while this is true, this was never the total of his music, he never had one CD that was one of the other, he was both and his music was both.

But you can also be both, look at Dead Prez or Immortal Technique, both from the streets, considered thugs and make revolutionary music.

[Akasha]

neither...more like convicted rapist...but i guess ppl have forgotten that

[Hampton]

It was actually sexual assault, broken down to forcibily touching the bottocks which was appealed after four months and he was released.

[IPkurd]

tupac changed after he became rich and bling etc, but never totally either like hampton said. i always get the feeling he just wanted all "his people" to be better off and thats it nothing more nothing less

[Crusader 4 da truth]

What revolution did he start?

I think he was just an artist with a product to sell.

[Guerrilla22]

Tupac was an interesting character, in some of his songs he sang about social injustice and the need for change, but in other songs he was singing about wanting to shoot everyone in Bad Boy Records, driving in Benzes and sipping cristol.

[Micah EL Layl]

peace....
yes white peoeple loved Tupac but remember that EVERYONE in the hood loves Tupac....you will be hard pressed to find someone in the hood who doesn't......Personally i think Tupac was more of a revolutionary than a rapper.....i think his rapping skills were not that good and he was overrated.....regardless i believe that Tupac was killed by the US government because as we all know they will kill anyone who could be a possible "Black Messiah".......anyways.....i remember watching Yo Mtv raps and Tupac was saying ..."all you klansman and white supremists....whenever you wanna go war lets go"..........The Boot Camp Clik is a hip hop group from brooklyn and their leader is Buckshot...they went to the west coast and built with Tupac and Tupac gave Buckshot the name BDI THUG.........actually one of the boot camp groups dissed Biggie in a video cuz biggie bit off one of their concepts so Bad Boy went to D&D studios and pistol whipped Starang Wonder from the boot camp.....if you liked Tupac you should defineatly check out BDI Thug or the the Smiff N Wesson album "dah Shinin"....they are defineatly on that revolutionary grimy street thug i don't give a fuck about clothes and *****es type shit....

[Capitalist Imperial]

Originally posted by Micah EL [email protected] 21 2004, 08:52 PM
peace....
yes white peoeple loved Tupac but remember that EVERYONE in the hood loves Tupac....you will be hard pressed to find someone in the hood who doesn't......Personally i think Tupac was more of a revolutionary than a rapper.....i think his rapping skills were not that good and he was overrated.....regardless i believe that Tupac was killed by the US government because as we all know they will kill anyone who could be a possible "Black Messiah".......anyways.....i remember watching Yo Mtv raps and Tupac was saying ..."all you klansman and white supremists....whenever you wanna go war lets go"..........The Boot Camp Clik is a hip hop group from brooklyn and their leader is Buckshot...they went to the west coast and built with Tupac and Tupac gave Buckshot the name BDI THUG.........actually one of the boot camp groups dissed Biggie in a video cuz biggie bit off one of their concepts so Bad Boy went to D&D studios and pistol whipped Starang Wonder from the boot camp.....if you liked Tupac you should defineatly check out BDI Thug or the the Smiff N Wesson album "dah Shinin"....they are defineatly on that revolutionary grimy street thug i don't give a fuck about clothes and *****es type shit....
The conspiracy theory that the US Government kiled Tupac is ludicrous. Tupac was not that important enough or that influetial enough to cause problems to the U.S. government. No entertaner is. It was probably Biggie Small's click or some other street thugs that took him out, and over something stupid at that/


Most of his fans were suburban youth or inner city youth, and some college students, either too shallow, too busy, or to day-to day to worry about the "big bad government".

America never really landed on the moon, either, right?

[The Sloth]

I appreciate only some of Tupac's music.

What stands out most is "2pacalypse Now", his first release, social and political, just like Hampton said.

Subsequent releases are little more than the occassional bragging, rap-for-street-credibility, etc. While there are some exceptional exceptions, such as "Dear Mama", "Brenda's Got a Baby", etc. the degradation is something that is not unique throughout a rapper's career. KRS-One, for example, went from a classic rapper to a memory that is still releasing LP's.

I think Tupac had potential, especially for the fact that he was a very influential and popular rapper. Getting the message out would have helped, but it turned out that he was not consistent. While most individuals associate him with revolution and poetry, the fact remains that the body of his work was violent gangsterism against the backdrop of subliminal messages. And, of course, you can't find a single Crip or Blood in L.A. that doesn't play "Shoot 'Em Up" or "Hail Mary" as the "street anthem," showing you what really interested his fans: dance-worthy beats and rugged lyrics, not a revolutionary and political message.

My respect for Dead Prez is also waning.

[Micah EL Layl]

peace....
indeed Tupac as an emcee was overrated...
the best emcee ever is KRS ONE......second
would be Rakim Allah.......
i think i know what waning means????
does that mean your not feeling dead prez anymore????
shit....i loved that new video they got out......
what other group is talking about shooting cops?????
and to the one before........
Tupac had more followers than the president of the united states.....
he was very dangerous at the time and could have gotten more
dangerous....Tupac was most defineatly liquidated by the
secret government.....

[Y2A]

Indeed. Tupac was planning a communist revolution and the evil U.$ government had to "liberate" him. those fucking piggies, oink oink oink! They make me SO MAD!

[Kurai Tsuki]

Tupac is one of the modern marketable dissidents.

<edit>The word revolutionary was changed to dissident.

[Vinny Rafarino]

Those of us old enough to remember Tupac playing keyboards for Digitial Underground while still sporting that 80s angled flat-top fade and parachute pants will not see Tupac as having too many "revolutionary points".

Let&#39;s not forget that anger and thugishness sell records.


If you ever rent the bangin&#39; 1991 hit film (&#33;) "Nothing but trouble" you will see what I mean once the court scene with DU comes on.

[Micah EL Layl]

peace...
word Y2.....word kuria....
well at the time Tupac joined DU he was broke and homeless.....and when you are broke you gonna do whatever to survive....
regardless DU was one of the most musically talented hip hop groups ever.....

[Vinny Rafarino]

That is not an excuse for the angled flat tope fade.

Not to mention the pants.

Word to the thug life.

[refuse_resist]

Tupac made some really good music, but he wasn&#39;t exactly what you would call a revolutionary. He did sing about a lot of important issues though that people from the inner city face on a daily basis.

[Danton]

Originally posted by [email protected] 21 2004, 06:25 PM
It was actually sexual assault, broken down to forcibily touching the bottocks which was appealed after four months and he was released.
That makes it all right then, so he had good lawyers. He was a sex pest, his music was at best mediocre and he he did more harm to Black liberation than he did good.

Digital underground were cool though, dowhatyalike is classic.

[Hampton]

I never said that it made it alright, I was just clarifying that it was not rape. And if he had good lawyers he would have not went to jail like O.J. but that was not the case.

But to say that he did more to harm it is erroneous also. Tupac&#39;s idea was that in his music if you put forth what was going on in the streets, the poverty, crime and other things that people would take notice and in the least being awareness that they were happening and in the hope that people would want to change them. Was it a little naive? Sure it was, but it did not harm black liberation, the people who misunderstood it will always do so, they will distort it and give it a bad name, but the hope is that people will listen to it and see what he is trying to say.

[Capitalist Imperial]

Tell &#39;em step off, I&#39;m doin&#39; The Hump....

[Danton]

Originally posted by [email protected] 22 2004, 02:46 PM
Tupac&#39;s idea was that in his music if you put forth what was going on in the streets, the poverty, crime and other things that people would take notice and in the least being awareness that they were happening and in the hope that people would want to change them.
I think he was more interested in gold, *****es and guns than putting forth any positive Black message. When people heard a Last poets or Gil Scott Heron recording or a Krs 1 or Jungle Bros joint - there was no room for misunderstanding, the message was clear and they practiced what they preached.

It&#39;s just a shame that in Rap music sensationalism and glorification of thick, lazy arseholes grabs the headlines, Tupac, Biggie, P Daddy, Snopp etc.. are all guilty of perpetuating this... It&#39;s hard to put forth a positive message whilst maintaining street cred and keeping the beats real, it is either musical shortcomings or plain ignorance that prevented him and his ilk from doing so...

[Y2A]

On the topic of black artists commiting sexual assault......what did R Kelly really do that was so wrong? The girl obviously wanted to be pissed on.

[Hampton]

When people heard a Last poets or Gil Scott Heron recording or a Krs 1 or Jungle Bros joint - there was no room for misunderstanding, the message was clear and they practiced what they preached.

Not everyone is the Last Poets or Gil Scott and not everyone will make their music that clear cut and they should not be punished because of that. That and not everyone will listen to them or have even heard of them, Tupac&#39;s rap did collected a wider audience and in doing that the messages would be brought to a wider audience. What was the message?

Was it Hit Em Up or was it Changes?

First off, fuck your ***** and the click you claim
Westside when we ride come equipped with game
You claim to be a player but I fucked your wife
We bust on Bad Boy niggaz fucked for life
Plus Puffy tryin ta see me weak hearts I rip
Biggie Smalls and Junior M.A.F.I.A. some mark ass *****es

Or

I see no changes. All I see is racist faces.
Misplaced hate makes disgrace for races we under.
I wonder what it takes to make this one better place...
let&#39;s erase the wasted.
Take the evil out the people, they&#39;ll be acting right.
&#39;Cause mo&#39; black than white is smokin&#39; crack tonight.
And only time we chill is when we kill each other.
It takes skill to be real, time to heal each other.
And although it seems heaven sent,
we ain&#39;t ready to see a black President, uhh.
It ain&#39;t a secret don&#39;t conceal the fact...
the penitentiary&#39;s packed, and it&#39;s filled with blacks.



All Out or Letter to the President?

We used to havin nothin, then grabbin&#39; somethin&#39; and bustin&#39;
Wanted to be the thugg-nigga, that my old man wasn&#39;t
I came to a field, catchin&#39; cases, litigation
Niggaz playa-hatin&#39;, got me crooked in all 50 states
I&#39;m screamin Deathrow, throw my Westside, ain&#39;t no thang
We was raised off drive-by&#39;s, brought up to bang
We claim mob, M.O.B. if you be specific
We control all cash from Atlantic-Pacific
And get this, I&#39;m hard to kill, when I peel with this live spot
Father, how the hell did I survive, these 5 shots?

Or

Dear Lord, look how sick this ghetto made us, sincerely
yours I&#39;m a thug, the product of a broken home
Everybody&#39;s doped up, nigga what you smokin on?
Figure if we high they can train us
but then America fucked up and blamed us
I guess it&#39;s cause we black that we targets
My only fear is God, I spit that hard shit
In case you don&#39;t know, I let my pump go
R for Mutulu like I ride for Geronimo


The message in those songs is as clear cut as you can get .

To say he only cared about one thing is to ignore the other face of the man is doing him a grave injustice that is constantly done.


It&#39;s hard to put forth a positive message whilst maintaining street cred and keeping the beats real, it is either musical shortcomings or plain ignorance that prevented him and his ilk from doing so?

You are right, and you will be penalized if you do one more than the other but I do not think that he was unable to do it, he did it, it?s there in his music, if people wish to ignore it, then so be it, but it is there. The man had contradictions and if you want to come down like a ton of bricks on him of it go ahead, but that is a short sighted vision of him as an artist.

Tupac Interlude from The Rose That Grew From Concrete, 1999:

Right now, it is it is almost.. it is almost uhh,
IMPOSSIBLE for you not to see how strong rap has gotten
Y&#39;knowhatI&#39;msayin, it&#39;s it&#39;s like umm..
our our brothers and sisters, our youths, and some of our adults
their ear is PINNED to rap music right now
And if you really wanna get our message out
and really wanna start teaching, we need to start doing that
We we really need to start using, our methods, y&#39;knowhatI&#39;msayin?
The Last Poets did it with poetry
And .. even in our history
from a ancient Afl- African civilization
poets went from village to village
And that&#39;s how, stories and messages and lessons were taught
Y&#39;knowhatI&#39;mssayin, and so like you say, history repeats itself
And so.. it it was, it was.. at it was, y&#39;know obvious
It was, pick it up, y&#39;know?
Being the race that we are, being the strong race that we are
We picked it up, we picked up those positive, those positive
vibes
and we started rapping and so
I think it is, it&#39;s a very good medium too

[Micah EL Layl]

peace....
from the Tupac Vibe Interview

So people did see blood on you?

They started telling me, "Your head&#33; Your head is bleeding." But I thought it was just a pistol-whip. Then the ambulance came, and the police. First cop I looked up to see was the cop that took the stand against me in the rape charge. He had a half smile on his face, and he could see them looking at my balls. He said, "What&#39;s up, Tupac? How&#39;s it hanging?"

HMMMMMMMMMMMMMMMM.........??????????

Why did you leave Bellevue Hospital?

I left Bellevue the next night. They were helping me, but I felt like a science project. They kept coming in, looking at my dick and shit, and this was not a cool position to be in. I knew my life was in danger. The Fruit of Islam was there, but they didn&#39;t have guns. I knew what type of niggas I was dealing with. So I left Bellevue and went to Metropolitan. They gave me a phone and said, "You&#39;re safe here. Nobody knows you&#39;re here." But the phone would ring and someone would say, "You ain&#39;t dead yet?" I was, like, Damn&#33; Those motherfuckers don&#39;t have no mercy. So I checked myself out, and my family took me to a safe spot, somebody who really cared about me in New York City.

Hmmmmmm??????????????

[IPkurd]

The Fruit of Islam was there, but they didn&#39;t have guns.

what the fuck did tupac mean by that?

[Micah EL Layl]

peace..
the Fruit of Islam is the Nation of Islam security team...
and they don&#39;t carry guns.....

[Lardlad95]

Digital underground clinched it..Tupac is charmine soft

not to mention he wasn&#39;t even all that good of a rapper

[Raisa]

Tu Pac was an artist, and he sung about what he liked as well as making insightful music about his life and where hes from, I don&#39;t think Tu Pac was a revolutionary, but I dont think the alternative has to just be "street thug". He was an artist who made music. Thats how most of you know him- from his art.

[Danton]

Undoubtabley some do but I beleive most know him because of his shabby feuds and unglorious end..

Hampton I hear what your saying, it&#39;s a perception thing. My qualm is that artists such as he who had and have such a mass audience wasted the opportunity to use that platform to it&#39;s full potential.

[bunk]

Tupac was killed because he was the best rapper and other rappers wanted him dead, also he fell out with biggie so they stopped protecting each other. A load of idiots from my school say he is alive in Cuba?? i honestly think he is the best rapper ever over even KRS-1 or anyone.

[CubanFox]

There is a simple, almost litmus-like, test to see whether anybody is a revolutionary.

Did he fight in a revolution?

Tupac Shakur did not.

Thus, he was merely a rapper, and not a "revolutionary hero" by any stretch of the imagination.

Perhaps my ever so intense hatred of all things hip hop and rap are clouding my judgement. But since I would use the same test on Bob Marley, whom I absolutely adore, maybe not.

[DaCuBaN]

My qualm is that artists such as he who had and have such a mass audience wasted the opportunity to use that platform to it&#39;s full potential

My sentiment exactly.


There is a simple, almost litmus-like, test to see whether anybody is a revolutionary.

Did he fight in a revolution?


:D
I think that pretty much settles this question :lol:

[synthesis]

You don&#39;t necessarily have to take part in an armed revolution to be a revolutionary. Ideas and art can be revolutionary, too.

Not that I&#39;m arguing the case for Tupac.

[ComradeCuteCamel]

Comrade Tupaq Shacker was a Martyr for the Cause,

For years he had Gloriously Led an heroic, insurrection of indigenous ghettovians against the oppressive KKKapitalist forces of Greed and Trechery, like a great Communist Zulu Warrior.

His shootinge was an unprovoked murder of this great Man by the counterrevolutionary evil armies of "uncle tobias" KKKapitalist warlord, herr Biggie Smalls, even whose name was a lie, as he was neither Small nor did he order Biggie-sized soft drinks.

This brigand thug Biggie Smalls should have been brought to justice and should have been left to rot in the hellhole of contemporary KKKapitalist lifestyle.

[gummo]

He was a thug and ended up getting capped like most other thugs.

[Vinny Rafarino]

For years he had Gloriously Led an heroic, insurrection of indigenous ghettovians against the oppressive KKKapitalist forces of Greed and Trechery, like a great Communist Zulu Warrior.


The only "heroic" insurrection that Tupac "led" was his "posse&#39;s" *****ing at the price of a new Bently from Jean Claude at the dealership.

"Communist Zulu Warrior"? :lol:

This must be a joke post by some capitalist trolling around as a communist; ignore him and he will go away.

[robob8706]

First off he played the capitalist game so, second he wasnt the moral person everyone makes him out to be. I mean he devoted a whole song to adultery with biggies wife....although he did have some songs that sung about black oppression, for that i see him different than other rappers. But he was still portrayed the gangsta stereotype of a rapper who raps about murder, rape, and self greed. For that i dont respect him.

[Raisa]

Originally posted by [email protected] 27 2004, 08:35 PM
Comrade Tupaq Shacker was a Martyr for the Cause,

For years he had Gloriously Led an heroic, insurrection of indigenous ghettovians against the oppressive KKKapitalist forces of Greed and Trechery, like a great Communist Zulu Warrior.

His shootinge was an unprovoked murder of this great Man by the counterrevolutionary evil armies of "uncle tobias" KKKapitalist warlord, herr Biggie Smalls, even whose name was a lie, as he was neither Small nor did he order Biggie-sized soft drinks.

This brigand thug Biggie Smalls should have been brought to justice and should have been left to rot in the hellhole of contemporary KKKapitalist lifestyle.
ComradeCuteCamel is such a cute name :D too bad he got banned&#33;