Just back from Cuba

[Fidel Castro]

Well, I said that as soon as I got back from my time in Cuba I would report my findings for whoever may be interested so here it is. I will make the following as non-biased as possible and can assure you that all within is accurate without any spin.........


Ok, I stayed at a place called "Campamento Internacional Julio Antonio Mella" about an hour outside Havana. We were warned that we were expected to live as the Cuban people live, and this ment that there were no hot showers, few flushing toilets (a bucket of water was used instead) and also that the meals were very simple with smallish portions.

Every day we had to work in the mornings from about 7 - 12 am, the work was a mixture of weeding the cane, constructing a clinic and tending to the orange groves. We worked under the supervision of the Cuban workers with the basic tools that they have to work with. Obviously there is a cronic shortage of basic tools and this was reflected by the fact that on the construction site for example, they would streighten old nails to re-use, and had almost no electrical tools. Also it is worth noting that there did not appear to be any health and safety measures in place, so no hard-hats or sturdy scaffolding.

Back to the lifestyle, which I think is worth expanding on. As I mentioned, the meals were very simple. The usual breakfast was a stale roll and glass of what tasted like goats milk. For lunch we usually were given rice with black beans, a little portion of processed meat and some home-grown veg such as tomato or plantain (which I found revolting). Dinner would be similar to lunch. All clothes had to be hand-washed in cold water, power cuts due to fuel shortages were regular, beds were simply bits of wood flung together, and there was no such luxury as air-conditioning or sometimes even a normal fan.

The Cuban people were as expected; very friendly. Some were surprised to find that they are in fact very open when discussing politics. Most of the Cuban people I talked to were pro-government, however I did meet one man who talked of corruption in the police force and his oppinion that Raul Castro would not make a good leader. My observation was that Fidel is genuinely loved by the Cuban people, and in every Cubans house I went in there was a picture of him on their walls and copies ofbooks about him on their shelves. Che is also genuinelt adored by the masses. Almost every Cuban I talked with was a passionate internationalist and would tell me about their involvement in Angola, Venezuela etc which ranged from fighting to donating money to giving blood.

Outwith the work or time spent on camp I had the chance to do/see many other things. I met the families of the Miami Five, I visited the Bay of Pigs, I visited a local CDR office, visited a disabled hostel, visited different cities, visited community projects, met a local Communist youth leader, met schoolchildren, got given talks on the economic and political situation and many many other things. To put down everything here now would take me forever. So instead I leave the floor open to any questions people may have.......

Oh, and before I forget, I made an appearance on the Cuban national news and in Granma too.

VIVA SOLIDARIDAD!

[Subversive Pessimist]

Very good and honest report. Thank you. :)
Was it a nice experience?

[Fidelbrand]

You were in Trinidad or Cienfuegos or....?
Which organization led you in doing this meaningful work?

It is always good to hear that people genuinely love Fidel, my dad always say they are brainwahsed patriots, which gets to my nerves.

[Danton]

Good work erm.. Fidel Castro. I've been lucky enough to travel fairly widely across the Island from Santiago to Habana - would'nt you agree that the countryside is the most beautiful on earth and that in fact it would be a fine life to just work the land and live the Guajiro life?

[Fidel Castro]

Was it a nice experience?

It was fantastic. I would advise any person thinking of travelling to Cuba for the first time, especially those with an interest in the politics of the place, to go through a program like this. My only slight dissapointment was that I didn't get more time to do my own thing, I wished I'd stayed on after the program for another couple of weeks.


You were in Trinidad or Cienfuegos or....?
Which organization led you in doing this meaningful work?

The camp itself was in Caimito, in Havana province. We also spent a few days in Matanzas and visited Playa Giron and the city where Elian Gonzalez lives (I forgot the name already!)

We were sent to Cuba bay the British Cuba Solidarity Campaign, and the work/camp/activities were organised by a Cuban organisation called ICAP (Institutio Cubana de Amistad con los Pueblos, I think it stands for)


It is always good to hear that people genuinely love Fidel, my dad always say they are brainwahsed patriots, which gets to my nerves.

The respect and love of Fidel was certainly genuine, however be under no illusions, the people do not follow blindly and I listened to a few Cubans who were pro-Fidel criticise some of his policies, for example, one man thought Fidel done too much for other countries considering Cuba's economic problems.


would'nt you agree that the countryside is the most beautiful on earth and that in fact it would be a fine life to just work the land and live the Guajiro life?

I detect a hint of sarcasm here. The countryside is lovely, but it is no garden of Eden really. I was especially impressed with Vinales (Spelling!). Also I found working the land enjoyable but tough, and the farmers I talked with appeared happy enough. I certainly did not meet anyone who craved the life of a 12 hour office day working out tax rebates whilst worrying about the mortgage and who the wife is fucking back home. :P

[Danton]

Originally posted by Fidel [email protected] 20 2004, 03:27 PM
I detect a hint of sarcasm here.
Why? I'm totally serious, the countryside Iv'e witnessed in Holguin, Santa Clara etc.. Is so lush, the colours... Iv'e never been happier than I was there..The smell of sugar cane, Royal palms, musica charanga, cohiba smoke..........

[Capitalist Imperial]

Did you see a good staging area for invasion?

It is only a matter of time before we liberate them.

[Fidelbrand]

Originally posted by Capitalist [email protected] 20 2004, 11:41 PM
Did you see a good staging area for invasion?

It is only a matter of time before we liberate them.
Liberate your sick mind, imperialist. Liberate them for the fuck of capitalism, hell no....

Go liberate your poor population like areas in Queens before you say something that your arse can't handle! :D

[Fidelbrand]

Fidel Castro,

British Cuba Solidarity Campaign? Cool, good news for the comrades in UK who aspires to get themselves "in" the Cuban culture. :)

[Capitalist Imperial]

Originally posted by [email protected] 20 2004, 03:56 PM
Liberate your sick mind, imperialist. Liberate them for the fuck of capitalism, hell no....

Go liberate your poor population like areas in Queens before you say something that your arse can't handle! :D
LOL, what does that mean? "Say something my arse can't handle"? LOL

[Fidelbrand]

Originally posted by Capitalist [email protected] 21 2004, 12:11 AM
LOL, what does that mean? "Say something my arse can't handle"? LOL
forget it... i'm sorry.
I just had the benign thought that you have the capacity to read properly and have a faculty that can operate accordingly.

[Fidel Castro]

Did you see a good staging area for invasion?

Yea, the Bay of Pigs :lol: :lol: :lol: :lol: :lol: :lol: :lol: :lol:


It is only a matter of time before we liberate them.

:lol: :lol: :lol: :lol: :lol: :lol: :lol: :lol: :lol: :lol: :lol: :lol:

[Fidelbrand]

Capitalist Imperial,

The Cuban population is one of the most sophisticatedly educated bunch of homo sapiens. The government rid them of their delusions from capitalism and they have their own heads to think what they need most.

Cuba was a whorehouse when Batista farted his notorious thought of making his homeland a palace for the Yanks to drink, slut and gamble. Under Fidel, the people are patriot and objective, they view the U.S. Government as evil but had no pigeon eyes towards the Americans. And now you say it is a "good stgaing for invasion and [liberation]"

Go read " Rogue nation : American unilateralism and the failure of good intentions " by Clyde Prestowitzand & see what your fellow-American wrote. Really,.. it's a good read.......SIR~~~~! :ph34r:

[Fidelbrand]

Originally posted by Fidel [email protected] 21 2004, 12:25 AM

Yea, the Bay of Pigs :lol: :lol: :lol: :lol: :lol: :lol: :lol: :lol:
....where the imperialists were shocked, defeated and blushed like those faces of the pigs~

:lol: :lol: :lol: :lol: :lol:

[gummo]

Originally posted by Fidel [email protected] 18 2004, 06:41 PM
Well, I said that as soon as I got back from my time in Cuba I would report my findings for whoever may be interested so here it is. I will make the following as non-biased as possible and can assure you that all within is accurate without any spin.........


Ok, I stayed at a place called "Campamento Internacional Julio Antonio Mella" about an hour outside Havana. We were warned that we were expected to live as the Cuban people live, and this ment that there were no hot showers, few flushing toilets (a bucket of water was used instead) and also that the meals were very simple with smallish portions.

Every day we had to work in the mornings from about 7 - 12 am, the work was a mixture of weeding the cane, constructing a clinic and tending to the orange groves. We worked under the supervision of the Cuban workers with the basic tools that they have to work with. Obviously there is a cronic shortage of basic tools and this was reflected by the fact that on the construction site for example, they would streighten old nails to re-use, and had almost no electrical tools. Also it is worth noting that there did not appear to be any health and safety measures in place, so no hard-hats or sturdy scaffolding.

Back to the lifestyle, which I think is worth expanding on. As I mentioned, the meals were very simple. The usual breakfast was a stale roll and glass of what tasted like goats milk. For lunch we usually were given rice with black beans, a little portion of processed meat and some home-grown veg such as tomato or plantain (which I found revolting). Dinner would be similar to lunch. All clothes had to be hand-washed in cold water, power cuts due to fuel shortages were regular, beds were simply bits of wood flung together, and there was no such luxury as air-conditioning or sometimes even a normal fan.

The Cuban people were as expected; very friendly. Some were surprised to find that they are in fact very open when discussing politics. Most of the Cuban people I talked to were pro-government, however I did meet one man who talked of corruption in the police force and his oppinion that Raul Castro would not make a good leader. My observation was that Fidel is genuinely loved by the Cuban people, and in every Cubans house I went in there was a picture of him on their walls and copies ofbooks about him on their shelves. Che is also genuinelt adored by the masses. Almost every Cuban I talked with was a passionate internationalist and would tell me about their involvement in Angola, Venezuela etc which ranged from fighting to donating money to giving blood.

Outwith the work or time spent on camp I had the chance to do/see many other things. I met the families of the Miami Five, I visited the Bay of Pigs, I visited a local CDR office, visited a disabled hostel, visited different cities, visited community projects, met a local Communist youth leader, met schoolchildren, got given talks on the economic and political situation and many many other things. To put down everything here now would take me forever. So instead I leave the floor open to any questions people may have.......

Oh, and before I forget, I made an appearance on the Cuban national news and in Granma too.

VIVA SOLIDARIDAD!
Would you trade your standard of living of that of Cubas?

[gummo]

Originally posted by [email protected] 20 2004, 04:32 PM
....where the imperialists were shocked, defeated and blushed like those faces of the pigs~

:lol: :lol: :lol: :lol: :lol:
Are you trying to say that the US military couldn't liberate Cuba if they felt the need?

[Fidelbrand]

Originally posted by [email protected] 21 2004, 12:35 AM
Are you trying to say that the US military couldn't liberate Cuba if they felt the need?
The problem is:

"If they felt the need??????" So you/your gov't/your nation's military wanna decide for the Cubans..... THEIR NEEDS?

Wow&#33; Fuck&#33; you are really a depravedly dictatorial little piece of shit, imperialist general Number 2&#33; <_< You are not only a jerko, but an imperialist wacko... please change his name, admin. :D

[revolutionindia]

Ever heard of David and goliath?
One stone from a sling did it

For america all you need is a pin to prick it and
WHOOOOOSH all the hot air come&#39;s out and the balloon
deflates to the size of a condom.

[Capitalist Imperial]

Originally posted by Fidel [email protected] 20 2004, 04:25 PM

Yea, the Bay of Pigs :lol: :lol: :lol: :lol: :lol: :lol: :lol: :lol:



:lol: :lol: :lol: :lol: :lol: :lol: :lol: :lol: :lol: :lol: :lol: :lol:
Go read you history, sir.

US forces never engaged at the bay of pigs. We trained the insurgents with promise of support, but then balked when the rebels landed on the beach.

Horrible, I know, but lucky for Cuba. If US air and naval support were applied there, Cuba would&#39;ve been the 51st state.

We could pretty easily take cuba at any time.

[Capitalist Imperial]

Originally posted by [email protected] 20 2004, 04:30 PM
Capitalist Imperial,

The Cuban population is one of the most sophisticatedly educated bunch of homo sapiens. The government rid them of their delusions from capitalism and they have their own heads to think what they need most.

Cuba was a whorehouse when Batista farted his notorious thought of making his homeland a palace for the Yanks to drink, slut and gamble. Under Fidel, the people are patriot and objective, they view the U.S. Government as evil but had no pigeon eyes towards the Americans. And now you say it is a "good stgaing for invasion and [liberation]"

Go read " Rogue nation : American unilateralism and the failure of good intentions " by Clyde Prestowitzand & see what your fellow-American wrote. Really,.. it&#39;s a good read.......SIR~~~~&#33; :ph34r:
Fidels minions are a bunch of uneduatred peasants that are easily brainwashed and ruled with fear. Are the hundreds of refugees floating to Florida on rafts every day patriots too? How about executed dissidents?

Please....

[Capitalist Imperial]

Originally posted by [email protected] 20 2004, 04:32 PM
....where the imperialists were shocked, defeated and blushed like those faces of the pigs~

:lol: :lol: :lol: :lol: :lol:
Incorrect, read your history, see my above response to the bay of pigs. There were no Americans there.

[Capitalist Imperial]

Originally posted by [email protected] 20 2004, 04:45 PM
Ever heard of David and goliath?
One stone from a sling did it

For america all you need is a pin to prick it and
WHOOOOOSH all the hot air come&#39;s out and the balloon
deflates to the size of a condom.
LOL, man, you guys really have a limited undestanding of what happened at the bay of pigs.
I suggest you purchase an encyclopedia.

AGAIN, US FORCES NEVER FOUGHT AT THE BAY OF PIGS

JEEZ...

[Capitalist Imperial]

Originally posted by [email protected] 20 2004, 04:41 PM
The problem is:

"If they felt the need??????" So you/your gov&#39;t/your nation&#39;s military wanna decide for the Cubans..... THEIR NEEDS?

Wow&#33; Fuck&#33; you are really a depravedly dictatorial little piece of shit, imperialist general Number 2&#33; <_< You are not only a jerko, but an imperialist wacko... please change his name, admin. :D

If they felt the need??????" So you/your gov&#39;t/your nation&#39;s military wanna decide for the Cubans..... THEIR NEEDS?

why not? they already have one murderous dictator doing it&#33;&#33;&#33;

[gummo]

Originally posted by [email protected] 20 2004, 04:41 PM
The problem is:

"If they felt the need??????" So you/your gov&#39;t/your nation&#39;s military wanna decide for the Cubans..... THEIR NEEDS?

Wow&#33; Fuck&#33; you are really a depravedly dictatorial little piece of shit, imperialist general Number 2&#33; <_< You are not only a jerko, but an imperialist wacko... please change his name, admin. :D
I didn&#39;t say we needed to, I just asked if you thought we could.

Wow&#33; Fuck&#33; Your an idiot.

[Fidelbrand]

Originally posted by Capitalist [email protected] 21 2004, 01:00 AM
Fidels minions are a bunch of uneduatred peasants that are easily brainwashed and ruled with fear. Are the hundreds of refugees floating to Florida on rafts every day patriots too? How about executed dissidents?

Please....
Yanks, I wouldn&#39;t say all, are a bunch of Tv fans brainwashed to follow the directives to buy what they needa buy under neo-liberal-illusional-but-also-detrimental-consumerism.

Ruled with fear? yes, they dance with their Sons and Rumbas with lots of fear and they wave with a pertrified heart to Fidel when he appears in the public.... when they walk besides Fidel in their rallies, 1 million Cubans brought their sticks with them to fear for a spank n the arse by Fidel..... enough? :D

Refugess: of course they fly for the thristy fuck of capitalism, as it is too seductive : JUST A FEW MORE CHOICES, FUCKS THE WHOLE WORLD ALL THE WAY UP&#33; (not only environment, but mindsets too)

Dissidents: Those launchign terrorist atatcks to Cuba or to any other countries should done be executed more than once. <_<

[Fidelbrand]

Originally posted by [email protected] 21 2004, 01:08 AM
I didn&#39;t say we needed to, I just asked if you thought we could.

Wow&#33; Fuck&#33; Your an idiot.
Why would you then boast and access whether you could, *****&#33;

[revolutionindia]

We all very well know that ,SIR

What happened at bay of pigs is just an indication of what will happen if America tries any more foolish adventures

Defeat of American trained rebels is defeat of America

Sir to most people
America is the world&#39;s largest hot air ballon that might explode without giving us all any time to take cover

[Fidelbrand]

Originally posted by Capitalist [email protected] 21 2004, 01:07 AM
why not? they already have one murderous dictator doing it&#33;&#33;&#33;
So go ahead, you are the World Police.
Go conquer very other country that has death penalties, what&#39;s the next target, Singapore?

[revolutionindia]

Let&#39;s all stop hijacking this thread and somebody please move this thread to politics where it will lead to more meaningful discussion

[Capitalist Imperial]

Originally posted by [email protected] 20 2004, 05:10 PM
Yanks, I wouldn&#39;t say all, are a bunch of Tv fans brainwashed to follow the directives to buy what they needa buy under neo-liberal-illusional-but-also-detrimental-consumerism.

Ruled with fear? yes, they dance with their Sons and Rumbas with lots of fear and they wave with a pertrified heart to Fidel when he appears in the public.... when they walk besides Fidel in their rallies, 1 million Cubans brought their sticks with them to fear for a spank n the arse by Fidel..... enough? :D

Refugess: of course they fly for the thristy fuck of capitalism, as it is too seductive : JUST A FEW MORE CHOICES, FUCKS THE WHOLE WORLD ALL THE WAY UP&#33; (not only environment, but mindsets too)

Dissidents: Those launchign terrorist atatcks to Cuba or to any other countries should done be executed more than once. <_<

Yanks, I wouldn&#39;t say all, are a bunch of Tv fans brainwashed to follow the directives to buy what they needa buy under neo-liberal-illusional-but-also-detrimental-consumerism.

did you read that out of some over-intellectualized liberal grad student&#39;s counter-culture thesis?


Ruled with fear? yes, they dance with their Sons and Rumbas with lots of fear and they wave with a pertrified heart to Fidel when he appears in the public.... when they walk besides Fidel in their rallies, 1 million Cubans brought their sticks with them to fear for a spank n the arse by Fidel..... enough? :D

no, those are thew ones that are brainwashed, so fidel need not worry about them, they are already in submission


JUST A FEW MORE CHOICES, FUCKS THE WHOLE WORLD ALL THE WAY UP&#33;

spoken like a true communist oppressor


Dissidents: Those launchign terrorist atatcks to Cuba or to any other countries should done be executed more than once. <_<

more than just those, Fidel has executed those who have merely spoke out against his dictatorial regime

[Fidelbrand]

Originally posted by Capitalist [email protected] 21 2004, 12:58 AM
Horrible, I know, but lucky for Cuba. If US air and naval support were applied there, Cuba would&#39;ve been the 51st state.
"Osman, I want you to explain to me how you concluded that I think that the strong have a right to rule the weak. Do you have a specific quote from me that states this? Or a series of quotes that allows you to draw this conclusion?"

http://www.che-lives.com/forum/index.php?s...pic=26990&st=20 (http://www.che-lives.com/forum/index.php?showtopic=26990&st=20)

edit yourself , otherwise you will be the joke of the month..... SIR.

[Fidelbrand]

did you read that out of some over-intellectualized liberal grad student&#39;s counter-culture thesis?

No, I am an undergraduate. Thanks for the praise for my production of something that is of grad&#39;s standard (or maybe because your standard is that low that you think it is of grad&#39;s standard? :blink: ).

Over-intellectualised, so , you have a problem with that too? care to explain..?


no, those are thew ones that are brainwashed, so fidel need not worry about them, they are already in submission

you didn&#39;t answer my quote properly..no response/counter-arguments at all.. anyway~ <_<
For a standard American patriot spoon-feeded by Western Media, i m not at all surprised at your view on Cuba, way to go kid~


spoken like a true communist oppressor

(you) Spoken like a true capitalist with a disdain for the environment.~ Me being oppressive ? At least i wouldn&#39;t have a wild gorge that Cuba wld be the 51st State of AmerikA~ Talking oppression here&#33; Imperialist&#33; ;)


more than just those, Fidel has executed those who have merely spoke out against his dictatorial regime

COPIED. For a standard American patriot spoon-feeded by Western Media, i m not at all surprised at your view on Cuba, way to go kid~

[Capitalist Imperial]

Originally posted by [email protected] 20 2004, 05:12 PM
We all very well know that ,SIR

What happened at bay of pigs is just an indication of what will happen if America tries any more foolish adventures

Defeat of American trained rebels is defeat of America

Sir to most people
America is the world&#39;s largest hot air ballon that might explode without giving us all any time to take cover

What happened at bay of pigs is just an indication of what will happen if America tries any more foolish adventures

you don&#39;t have much knowledge of history, do you?

[gummo]

Originally posted by [email protected] 20 2004, 05:12 PM
Why would you then boast and access whether you could, *****&#33;


Are you trying to say that the US military couldn&#39;t liberate Cuba if they felt the need?

That&#39;s not boasting asshole. It&#39;s asking a question.


....where the imperialists were shocked, defeated and blushed like those faces of the pigs~

laugh.gif laugh.gif laugh.gif laugh.gif laugh.gif

Thats boasting you stupid pink fuckstick.

[revolutionindia]

Capitalist imperial ,Good night

[Capitalist Imperial]

Originally posted by [email protected] 20 2004, 05:20 PM
"Osman, I want you to explain to me how you concluded that I think that the strong have a right to rule the weak. Do you have a specific quote from me that states this? Or a series of quotes that allows you to draw this conclusion?"

http://www.che-lives.com/forum/index.php?s...pic=26990&st=20 (http://www.che-lives.com/forum/index.php?showtopic=26990&st=20)

edit yourself , otherwise you will be the joke of the month..... SIR.
that quote does not reconcile with Osman&#39;s claim. You should work on your critical thinking skills.

You are joke of the year, sir

[revolutionindia]

BTW Gummo why do you come to a che-fan site with a cross of mickey and che as your avatar?
Are you so jobless?

[gummo]

Originally posted by [email protected] 20 2004, 05:40 PM
BTW Gummo why do you come to a che-fan site with a cross of mickey and che as your avatar?
Are you so jobless?
Actually I am getting paid to write this reply.

If you can&#39;t figure it out then you need to have the gifted individual removed from your avitar.

[Fidelbrand]

That&#39;s not boasting asshole. It&#39;s asking a question.
We all saw how you looked when you typed that sentence. Only a fiercely patriotiuc imperialist would ask such a question.. Dah~~~~


Thats boasting you stupid pink fuckstick.

Stupid? We certainly witnessed who&#39;s ego boosted moron?
pink? Make it red, please. :hammer: :lol:

[Capitalist Imperial]

Originally posted by [email protected] 20 2004, 05:31 PM

No, I am an undergraduate. Thanks for the praise for my production of something that is of grad&#39;s standard (or maybe because your standard is that low that you think it is of grad&#39;s standard? :blink: ).

Over-intellectualised, so , you have a problem with that too? care to explain..?



you didn&#39;t answer my quote properly..no response/counter-arguments at all.. anyway~ <_<
For a standard American patriot spoon-feeded by Western Media, i m not at all surprised at your view on Cuba, way to go kid~



(you) Spoken like a true capitalist with a disdain for the environment.~ Me being oppressive ? At least i wouldn&#39;t have a wild gorge that Cuba wld be the 51st State of AmerikA~ Talking oppression here&#33; Imperialist&#33; ;)



COPIED. For a standard American patriot spoon-feeded by Western Media, i m not at all surprised at your view on Cuba, way to go kid~
LOL, are you saying that my media lied about Fidel excuting political enemies? It is you who are brainwashed if you claim this.

[Fidelbrand]

Originally posted by Capitalist [email protected] 21 2004, 01:40 AM
that quote does not reconcile with Osman&#39;s claim. You should work on your critical thinking skills.

You are joke of the year, sir
"We could pretty easily take cuba at any time" ;) Sir..

[Fidelbrand]

Originally posted by Capitalist [email protected] 21 2004, 01:46 AM
LOL, are you saying that my media lied about Fidel excuting political enemies? It is you who are brainwashed if you claim this.
That&#39;s another issue, critical thinking genius.
btw, thanks for the chunk of un-answered quotes. :lol:

[Capitalist Imperial]

Originally posted by [email protected] 20 2004, 05:31 PM

No, I am an undergraduate. Thanks for the praise for my production of something that is of grad&#39;s standard (or maybe because your standard is that low that you think it is of grad&#39;s standard? :blink: ).

Over-intellectualised, so , you have a problem with that too? care to explain..?



you didn&#39;t answer my quote properly..no response/counter-arguments at all.. anyway~ <_<
For a standard American patriot spoon-feeded by Western Media, i m not at all surprised at your view on Cuba, way to go kid~



(you) Spoken like a true capitalist with a disdain for the environment.~ Me being oppressive ? At least i wouldn&#39;t have a wild gorge that Cuba wld be the 51st State of AmerikA~ Talking oppression here&#33; Imperialist&#33; ;)



COPIED. For a standard American patriot spoon-feeded by Western Media, i m not at all surprised at your view on Cuba, way to go kid~

No, I am an undergraduate. Thanks for the praise for my production of something that is of grad&#39;s standard (or maybe because your standard is that low that you think it is of grad&#39;s standard? :blink: ).

Don&#39;t take too much credit, I can sit up all night and make something more intellectualized than it has to be too. It is not necessarily a mark of intelligence, just a big mouth. All talk, little substance.


For a standard American patriot spoon-feeded by Western Media, i m not at all surprised at your view on Cuba, way to go kid~

That was an easy, canned dismissal, and inaccurate at that. I&#39;m sure we have much more freedom of information that Cuba, don&#39;t even try to deny this.

[Capitalist Imperial]

Originally posted by [email protected] 20 2004, 05:38 PM
Capitalist imperial ,Good night
Good night.

RevolutionIndia, I&#39;ve said it before and I&#39;ll say it again,

Keep posting on behalf of leftists everywhere.

Please.

[Capitalist Imperial]

Originally posted by [email protected] 20 2004, 05:51 PM
That&#39;s another issue, critical thinking genius.
btw, thanks for the chunk of un-answered quotes. :lol:
what quotes did I not address? please let me know.

[Fidelbrand]

Don&#39;t take too much credit, I can sit up all night and make something more intellectualized than it has to be too. It is not necessarily a mark of intelligence, just a big mouth. All talk, little substance.

Of course i wasn&#39;t taking credit ( :D ), i was dis-crediting your ignorance.
Anyway, beware of being "over-intellectualised" if you think you can be "more intellecualised than it has to be". :ph34r:
"Talk" can be of substance if you have ever gave a little deeper "talk" (except those shallow patriotic talks...)


That was an easy, canned dismissal, and inaccurate at that. I&#39;m sure we have much more freedom of information that Cuba, don&#39;t even try to deny this.

Who would lead one&#39;s country to the mired situation of living a dehumanised life and attaining a progressively intoxicated mentality, ..... IF AND ONLY IF --&#62; WAKENED.... one ever knows the shits of capitlaism?

[Fidelbrand]

Be back in an hour, SIR. ^______*

[revolutionindia]

I repeat again I am not a leftist ,right winger ,captialist or religious fundamentalist

I&#39;m only Human and so are you and as long as you we all do not forget this and impress upon ourselves to remember this seemingly common fact in our everyday life a better world will be possible

[Capitalist Imperial]

Originally posted by [email protected] 20 2004, 06:15 PM
I repeat again I am not a leftist ,right winger ,captialist or religious fundamentalist

I&#39;m only Human and so are you and as long as you we all do not forget this and impress upon ourselves to remember this seemingly common fact in our everyday life a better world will be possible
Finally, something lucid&#33;&#33;&#33;

[LuZhiming]

Originally posted by Capitalist [email protected] 20 2004, 04:58 PM
Go read you history, sir.

US forces never engaged at the bay of pigs. We trained the insurgents with promise of support, but then balked when the rebels landed on the beach.

Horrible, I know, but lucky for Cuba. If US air and naval support were applied there, Cuba would&#39;ve been the 51st state.

We could pretty easily take cuba at any time.
You&#39;re almost right. Kennedy did cancel the air support... most of it, but there were still a few pilots who actually did make it to Cuba and who were shot down. Their families never even knew about it for years.

[Capitalist Imperial]

Originally posted by [email protected] 20 2004, 07:33 PM
You&#39;re almost right. Kennedy did cancel the air support... most of it, but there were still a few pilots who actually did make it to Cuba and who were shot down. Their families never even knew about it for years.
I&#39;d like to see were you got this info, as by now I&#39;m certain it would more well known if that happened. Do you have a link? Was every pilot shot down? Hard to believe that they would&#39;ve got all of them, if it happened at all. I&#39;m willing to entertain you claim, though.

Either way, a few straggler pilots is negligible. My point is, full US military support would&#39;ve made the situation quite different.

[robob8706]

Yes The U.S. could take over Cuba real easily probably, but that would encite a conflict between the U.S. and all the communist countries of the world. Such as China or Korea, and there is a reason why we haven&#39;t invaded Korea yet, cause they have nukes and the like.

[Louis Pio]

but that would encite a conflict between the U.S. and all the communist countries of the world. Such as China or Korea, and there is a reason why we haven&#39;t invaded Korea yet, cause they have nukes and the like.



Nope. China is not even socialist. And they sure wouldn&#39;t want a conflict with USA because they need the american market to sell their products. North Korea wouldn&#39;t wan&#39;t a conflict neither I think. They only care about preserving the dynasty of the Kims.

[LuZhiming]

Originally posted by Capitalist Imperial+Posted on Jul 20 2004, 07:51 PM--> (Capitalist Imperial &#064; Posted on Jul 20 2004, 07:51 PM)I&#39;d like to see were you got this info, as by now I&#39;m certain it would more well known if that happened. Do you have a link? Was every pilot shot down? Hard to believe that they would&#39;ve got all of them, if it happened at all. I&#39;m willing to entertain you claim, though. [/b]

I&#39;m glad you asked, this comes from an absolutely impeccable source. These are in declassified U.S. documents, the two I refer to are actually audio files of a phone conversation between John F. Kennedy and Robert F. Kennedy. If you have the real player, you can listen to them here: http://www.gwu.edu/~nsarchiv/bayofpigs/ Scroll to the very bottom, and two audio files are down there. Although it appears the second one isn&#39;t working, at least on my computer, but the details of the event are on the first.

To answer your question, no, all were not shot down, just two planes, and four Americans were killed.


Capitalist [email protected] on Jul 20 2004, 07:51 PM
Either way, a few straggler pilots is negligible. My point is, full US military support would&#39;ve made the situation quite different.

I know, I was just making a small correction for your own information.

[Capitalist Imperial]

Originally posted by [email protected] 20 2004, 11:10 PM

I&#39;m glad you asked, this comes from an absolutely impeccable source. These are in declassified U.S. documents, the two I refer to are actually audio files of a phone conversation between John F. Kennedy and Robert F. Kennedy. If you have the real player, you can listen to them here: http://www.gwu.edu/~nsarchiv/bayofpigs/ Scroll to the very bottom, and two audio files are down there. Although it appears the second one isn&#39;t working, at least on my computer, but the details of the event are on the first.

To answer your question, no, all were not shot down, just two planes, and four Americans were killed.



I know, I was just making a small correction for your own information.
thanks, interesting.

It loooks like the bombers missed their escort. Makes sense, I suppose.

[Fidel Castro]

Whoa, fuck me, I never expected this thread to be hijacked by a bunch of cappie sad-fucks&#33; Oh well.......

Cappie Imperialist,

You push the point quite heavily that the US did not actively fight in the Bay of Pigs fiasco, as if this somehow drags the Empire&#39;s ass out the shit-pipe :lol:

The exile scum were funded by CIA scum. The US promised to help if the exiles could set-up a beach-head, but the exiles were useless fucks against the united revolutionary forces. I suppose the US could have jumped in to save their puppets from the humiliating defeat they suffered, but Kennedy was too much of a chicken-shit because he knew, like Bush knows, that the Cuban masses would not tolerate the Empires minions to trample their blood-stained boots over Cuban soil.

Your beloved "democracy" is a nation with more blood on it&#39;s hands than I&#39;ve got shit in my bowels. The US has trampled over the very name of democracy it preaches, the very freedom it claims to protect. The US has trampled over Chile, Grenada, Panama, Nicaragua, Venizuela, Afganhistan, Iraq, Palestine, Korea, Vietnam, Haiti, Dominican Republic, Columbia, in fact almost every under-developed nation on earth for a few bucks and/or a few barrels of oil.

In short, SIR, the United States must be by far the biggest cause of death and destruction that this planet has ever known. Literally millions have died as a result of US military action, US-sponsered tyranny, US economic slavery, US covert operations, US funded expiditions, US funded organised crime and the rest.

The day the Empire collapses is the day the world is truely free&#33;

"There is no alternative, the world must be saved&#33;" - Fidel

[RJRevolution]

Thank you Fidel. I was waiting for someone to shut that douchebag up.

[Hiero]

Originally posted by Fidel [email protected] 21 2004, 03:00 AM
Whoa, fuck me, I never expected this thread to be hijacked by a bunch of cappie sad-fucks&#33; Oh well.......

Yeah who would of thought that if you put it in OI where most of the OI&#39;s hate Fidel that the cappie&#39;s would come in here and start to argue. I couldnt see that happen from a mile away.



If you really didnt think it would be "hijacked" then you are the sad fuck.

[CubanFox]

Originally posted by comrade [email protected] 21 2004, 09:10 PM
Yeah who would of thought that if you put it in OI where most of the OI&#39;s hate Fidel that the cappie&#39;s would come in here and start to argue. I couldnt see that happen from a mile away.



If you really didnt think it would be "hijacked" then you are the sad fuck.
Where the fuck did that sardonic little remark come from?

Fidel: Absolutely. America is in no place to whinge about the atrocities of others.

[percept¡on]

Originally posted by Fidel [email protected] 21 2004, 03:00 AM
In short, SIR, the United States must be by far the biggest cause of death and destruction that this planet has ever known.
You sure about that one, junior?

[gummo]

Originally posted by Fidel [email protected] 21 2004, 03:00 AM
Whoa, fuck me, I never expected this thread to be hijacked by a bunch of cappie sad-fucks&#33; Oh well.......


At least we just hijack threads. The groups you support hijack planes.

[Louis Pio]

At least we just hijack threads. The groups you support hijack planes.

Just when I thought you couldn&#39;t become more pathetic you did. That&#39;s an archivement :D

[gummo]

Originally posted by [email protected] 21 2004, 02:53 PM

Just when I thought you couldn&#39;t become more pathetic you did. That&#39;s an archivement :D
Thanks for the recognition&#33; It means a lot coming from a cutie pie.

lol gotta love censorship&#33;

[Fidel Castro]

The groups you support hijack planes.

The groups I support??? Oh yes, of course I forgot, in the immortal words of Saint George of Texas "you are either with us, or with the terrorists".

So because I happen to believe that the US regime is an evil imperialist force I am automatically affiliated with some Islamic fundamentalist group, and therefore without evidence, legal representation or charge I should be locked up in a naval base on illegally occupied foreign soil? :lol:

Please provide me with evidence to prove that the groups I support (Cuba Solidarity Campaign, Scottish Socialist Party) hijack planes, I await such evidence with anticipation. :lol:


You sure about that one, junior?

To be honest, I don&#39;t think it is too debatable. Remember that the US gave support, either economic/military/political to some of the most brutal and disgusting tyrants this world has seen, such as Pol Pot, Pinochet, Batista and Duvalier to name a few. Collectively those dictators supported by the US are responsible of the deaths of millions, regimes that may have collapsed quicker or not even existed had it not been for US support.

Also, consider the casualties, military and civilian as a result of actual US military action, such as Heroshima (from which people still suffer to this day). Or even those who suffer in other ways as a result of US economic or foreign policy. Almost every human on this earth is affected in some way by the United States policy, many of them in a negative sense.

[Louis Pio]

My point was little Gummo that most here don&#39;t support that. It&#39;s only in your lil head

[Capitalist Imperial]

Originally posted by [email protected] 21 2004, 09:11 AM
Thank you Fidel. I was waiting for someone to shut that douchebag up.
LOL, shut me up? You&#39;re obviously new here.

[percept¡on]

Originally posted by Fidel [email protected] 21 2004, 03:04 PM
To be honest, I don&#39;t think it is too debatable. Remember that the US gave support, either economic/military/political to some of the most brutal and disgusting tyrants this world has seen, such as Pol Pot, Pinochet, Batista and Duvalier to name a few. Collectively those dictators supported by the US are responsible of the deaths of millions, regimes that may have collapsed quicker or not even existed had it not been for US support.

Also, consider the casualties, military and civilian as a result of actual US military action, such as Heroshima (from which people still suffer to this day). Or even those who suffer in other ways as a result of US economic or foreign policy. Almost every human on this earth is affected in some way by the United States policy, many of them in a negative sense.
No. British and Spanish Empires probably got the US beat... and the USSR, Nazi Germany, and Mao&#39;s China make the US&#39;s killings look like kids&#39; stuff.

[Fidel Castro]

No. British and Spanish Empires probably got the US beat... and the USSR, Nazi Germany, and Mao&#39;s China make the US&#39;s killings look like kids&#39; stuff.

Yes, but I&#39;m not just talking about direct military action or direct killing on the part of US troops. I&#39;m also not just talking about the harm the US has caused in a military sense.

Think of it this way, if it were possible to accurately calculate the number of those affected by:

1) Open US military action (i.e Heroshima, Korean War, Vietnam victims etc)

2) US backed regimes (Batista, Pinochet, Pol Pot, Samosa, Duvalier etc)

3) US secret and covert operations (Bay of Pigs, Coup in Chile etc)

4) US human rights breaches (Guantanamo, racism)

5) US economic policy (sweatshops, un-fair trade, Third World Debt)

Basically what I&#39;m getting at is that the US has been the direct cause, or contributer to more human misery in one form or another than any other regime. I agree that it is debatable (because the full extent is unknown).

[Micah EL Layl]

peace....
do they grow marajuana in cuba????
i read that during the Sierra Maestra days a marajuana farmer
helped out Fidel and the guerillas....
and to the US imperialists......9/11 was masterminded by people
in your own government......any retard knows this.......
Or the Oklahoma city bombing.......its proven that agents who
worked at the building that was bombed were told not to come
to work that day....and this was reported in the mainstream media......
one witness came to the bombing site minutes after the bomb went off
and found agents in full gear which takes 30 minutes just to put on......
or the WTC 1993 attacks....the mainstream media reported that the
FBI connection to the attacks....how one of the bombers actually recorded
the conversation with the FBI agent telling him to PROCEED......
or how Mohammad Salameh(one of the suspects) was hired by JOSIE HADAS
an Isreali to move something......Salameh made a call to police that the ryder
truck was stolen and then Salameh called Hadas again......
Salameh is now in jail and Hadas is somewhere in Isreal.....
You see the US imperialists made a BIG BOO BOO when they allowed
the OPERATION NORTHWOOD documents leak to the public........
they had planned to hijack airplanes or do terrorist bombings and then
blame it castro to ensite a war....its the oldest trick in the book....
Roman emporers did it to christians.....Hitler did it to Jews.....
because these people know that the brainwashed sheep will
believe anything and sacrifice their liberty for protection which is happening
now in north america....they got rid of the CONSTITUTION....its gone.....
you poor poor brainwashed sheep.......you think all this won&#39;t touch you???
It willl....Bush is lowering the toxic level standards.....Bush has gotten rid of the constution....Castro is more of a patriot to the United States citizens than Bush is.........

[synthesis]

Originally posted by [email protected] 21 2004, 07:39 AM
At least we just hijack threads. The groups you support hijack planes.
I think it&#39;s pretty funny that you say that in a thread about Cuba. You seem smarter, at least, than to infer that we support the WTC bombings, so I&#39;m not completely sure you&#39;re referring to that. You did know, of course, that Osama bin Laden was a direct product of the war against the Soviets in Afghanistan, which, by the way, was funded in no small part by the C.I.A.? Yes, a government devoted in no small part to women&#39;s rights and education was replaced by the Taliban because it was inimical to American business interests.

Regardless, what&#39;s funny about your statement is that America harbors terrorist organizations of its own, notably the Miami "freedom fighters" (any terrorist who we support is a "freedom fighter"). To give just one example, Luis Posada Carriles murdered dozens when he blew up a Cuban passenger airplane in 1976, and was recently involved in a series of hotel bombings in Havana in 1997. He was directly financed by the Cuban-American National Fund, who was directly financed by American taxpayers&#39; money through the "NED" (a front for the CIA): over a quarter-million between 1990 and 1992 alone.

[Hiero]

Originally posted by [email protected] 21 2004, 02:39 PM
At least we just hijack threads. The groups you support hijack planes.
Yeah but hijacking planes is sooooo much funny.

[Danton]

Hilarious, a fun time is had by all.

[Capitalist Imperial]

Originally posted by Micah EL [email protected] 22 2004, 04:21 AM
peace....
do they grow marajuana in cuba????
i read that during the Sierra Maestra days a marajuana farmer
helped out Fidel and the guerillas....
and to the US imperialists......9/11 was masterminded by people
in your own government......any retard knows this.......
Or the Oklahoma city bombing.......its proven that agents who
worked at the building that was bombed were told not to come
to work that day....and this was reported in the mainstream media......
one witness came to the bombing site minutes after the bomb went off
and found agents in full gear which takes 30 minutes just to put on......
or the WTC 1993 attacks....the mainstream media reported that the
FBI connection to the attacks....how one of the bombers actually recorded
the conversation with the FBI agent telling him to PROCEED......
or how Mohammad Salameh(one of the suspects) was hired by JOSIE HADAS
an Isreali to move something......Salameh made a call to police that the ryder
truck was stolen and then Salameh called Hadas again......
Salameh is now in jail and Hadas is somewhere in Isreal.....
You see the US imperialists made a BIG BOO BOO when they allowed
the OPERATION NORTHWOOD documents leak to the public........
they had planned to hijack airplanes or do terrorist bombings and then
blame it castro to ensite a war....its the oldest trick in the book....
Roman emporers did it to christians.....Hitler did it to Jews.....
because these people know that the brainwashed sheep will
believe anything and sacrifice their liberty for protection which is happening
now in north america....they got rid of the CONSTITUTION....its gone.....
you poor poor brainwashed sheep.......you think all this won&#39;t touch you???
It willl....Bush is lowering the toxic level standards.....Bush has gotten rid of the constution....Castro is more of a patriot to the United States citizens than Bush is.........
Its time to take your medication.


and to the US imperialists......9/11 was masterminded by people
in your own government......any retard knows this.......

yeah, I agree, pretty much only retards do believe this.


Or the Oklahoma city bombing.......its proven that agents who
worked at the building that was bombed were told not to come
to work that day....and this was reported in the mainstream media......

And the US never landed on the moon, right? Are we holding a real-life-honest-to-god UFO at Roswell too?


you poor poor brainwashed sheep

Wow, I haven&#39;t heard that one before. We can all see by your prose and commentary that you are obviously quite lucid and enlightened. Do you have a thought that wasn&#39;t spoon-fed to you by some finge conspiracy theory website for burnouts?


or the WTC 1993 attacks....the mainstream media reported that the
FBI connection to the attacks....how one of the bombers actually recorded
the conversation with the FBI agent telling him to PROCEED......

Just because you may be into self-mutilation as a byproduct of your obvious delusion, that doesn&#39;t mean nations are.


Castro is more of a patriot to the United States citizens than Bush is.........

Again, put away the funny cigarrettes, its time for your dosage

I don&#39;t even think leftists here will take you seriously.

[Micah EL Layl]

peace....
welll you make all the little jokes you want....
i only posted shit that can be found in MAINSTREAM
MEDIA........Mainstream meaning the MAIN most
Popular Newpaper of each area........Except these
stories were buried in the back of the paper and only
appeared one time.....so you should tell the newspaper
journalists to take their medicine you fag.....

[gummo]

Originally posted by Micah EL [email protected] 22 2004, 05:33 PM
peace....
welll you make all the little jokes you want....
i only posted shit that can be found in MAINSTREAM
MEDIA........Mainstream meaning the MAIN most
Popular Newpaper of each area........Except these
stories were buried in the back of the paper and only
appeared one time.....so you should tell the newspaper
journalists to take their medicine you fag.....
First word is peace.... and last word is fag.....

Maybe Teis will loan you some prozac.

Also, what the fuck is up with all of the ...... ???????

[Louis Pio]

What&#39;s prozac? Some medicine your on? It seems not to help you.

[gummo]

Originally posted by [email protected] 22 2004, 06:31 PM
What&#39;s prozac? Some medicine your on? It seems not to help you.
You do make a good point by asking "What&#39;s prozac". I forgot that your village witch doctor still cures everything with stuff we buy at the liquor store.

[Capitalist Imperial]

Originally posted by Micah EL [email protected] 22 2004, 05:33 PM
peace....
welll you make all the little jokes you want....
i only posted shit that can be found in MAINSTREAM
MEDIA........Mainstream meaning the MAIN most
Popular Newpaper of each area........Except these
stories were buried in the back of the paper and only
appeared one time.....so you should tell the newspaper
journalists to take their medicine you fag.....
All I can say is that if you are a leftist, then keep posting on behalf of leftists everywhere.

Please.

[DaCuBaN]

I&#39;m never quite sure when you say this CI.... Do you think they would take your advice and consider posting more frequently? are you trying to shut them up via the inversion of the aforementioned methodology?

PM me if you don&#39;t want to give away the &#39;big secret&#39; ;)

[Louis Pio]

You do make a good point by asking "What&#39;s prozac". I forgot that your village witch doctor still cures everything with stuff we buy at the liquor store.

The arrogance doesn&#39;t suit you.
And it gives you away as not knowing much. For your information Denmark has a exellent healthcare system and furthermore it&#39;s free. As well as we get financial help to buy medicine. Quite some levels over your hospitals for poor people ehh?

[Capitalist Imperial]

Originally posted by [email protected] 22 2004, 07:23 PM
I&#39;m never quite sure when you say this CI.... Do you think they would take your advice and consider posting more frequently? are you trying to shut them up via the inversion of the aforementioned methodology?

PM me if you don&#39;t want to give away the &#39;big secret&#39; ;)
What I&#39;m saying is that in these cetain peoples&#39; cases (like this guy and RevolutionIndia), their posts are so stupid, ignorant, and pathetic, that I hope that they continue to post as representatives of the left, because as they do so, they make the entire left look worse,

This is opposed to many leftists who at least have cohesive thoughts or a reasonable perspective on many things, and by virtue of their posts indicate that they are at least intelligent, even if we disagree ideology-wise.

but when you have stuff like:

"and to the US imperialists......9/11 was masterminded by people
in your own government......any retard knows this.......
Or the Oklahoma city bombing.......its proven that agents who
worked at the building that was bombed were told not to come
to work that day....and this was reported in the mainstream media......"

I just sit back, laugh, and allow them to keep posting. They are self-defeating in their stupidity, and some what implicates the entire left (not really, but I&#39;m just maing a point).

[Eastside Revolt]

Originally posted by Fidel [email protected] 20 2004, 04:25 PM

Yea, the Bay of Pigs :lol: :lol: :lol: :lol: :lol: :lol: :lol: :lol:

Yeah, fucking rights&#33;

[Louis Pio]

What I&#39;m saying is that in these cetain peoples&#39; cases (like this guy and RevolutionIndia), their posts are so stupid, ignorant, and pathetic, that I hope that they continue to post as representatives of the left, because as they do so, they make the entire left look worse,


Like Gummo you mean?

[gummo]

Originally posted by [email protected] 22 2004, 08:20 PM

Like Gummo you mean?
Do you really think I "represent the left"?

[Louis Pio]

No I think you give the right a bad name. Look at CI, he can actually argue unlike you.

[gummo]

Originally posted by [email protected] 22 2004, 08:55 PM
No I think you give the right a bad name. Look at CI, he can actually argue unlike you.
Are you coming on to me? I should tell you that I am married.

[Louis Pio]

Are you coming on to me? I should tell you that I am married.

To your sister?

[Micah EL Layl]

peace...
laugh all you want...it was reported in your newspapers....
your just one of the those people who are either brainwashed
or you know what i say is true but it benefits your devil race
to lie about it....

[Capitalist Imperial]

Originally posted by Micah EL [email protected] 22 2004, 09:57 PM
peace...
laugh all you want...it was reported in your newspapers....
your just one of the those people who are either brainwashed
or you know what i say is true but it benefits your devil race
to lie about it....
Yeah, you have me there. Your agument is to comprhehensive, suscinct, and concrete, that I am unable to formulate a legitimate response.


I capitulate to you, sir.

[gummo]

Originally posted by [email protected] 22 2004, 09:15 PM

To your sister?
lol now that was funny. In our society that kind of thing isn&#39;t allowed.

[Louis Pio]

lol now that was funny. In our society that kind of thing isn&#39;t allowed.

Well you just seemed inbreed so I thought it was maybe the case. It seems to happen down south.

[Capitalist Imperial]

Originally posted by [email protected] 23 2004, 02:04 PM

Well you just seemed inbreed so I thought it was maybe the case. It seems to happen down south.
Thats a stereotype. Inbreeding happens at pretty-much the same rate all over the world.

I would say, overall, many of the people from the British Isles look more inbred that most of the people from the southern US. And that would make sense because, geographically and geneologically speaking, there is a smaller pool of people there, and they are much more homogenous than in the diverse US south that contains multiple generations of immigrants from all over the world, and they are in a smaller and more restricted area (an ilsland), especially considering up to 200 years ago before we have transportation methods of today. In human history trms, 200 years ago is virtually yesterday.

[synthesis]

You can have a pool of as small as 1,000 people without any negative genetic consequences from inbreeding.

However, the British aristocracy itself is largely inbred, but it doesn&#39;t really have to do with the lack of quantity, more from the old practice of keeping marriages within the family - no secret, really.

If I&#39;m not mistaken, Southern inbreeding has more to do with the lack of outside contact with the opposite gender due to rural isolation.

[DaCuBaN]

I think some reading might be required, CI ;)

http://www.bbc.co.uk/history/society_cultu...abbott_01.shtml (http://www.bbc.co.uk/history/society_culture/multicultural/dabbott_01.shtml)

http://www.museumoflondon.org.uk/MOLsite/l.../general_3.html (http://www.museumoflondon.org.uk/MOLsite/learning/features_facts/general_3.html)

http://www.statistics.gov.uk/census2001/pr...rank_ethnic.asp (http://www.statistics.gov.uk/census2001/profiles/rank/rank_ethnic.asp)

So now we&#39;ve safely expunged that idea, let us do the same for the southern US

http://www.censusscope.org/us/rank_race_bl...anamerican.html (http://www.censusscope.org/us/rank_race_blackafricanamerican.html)

According to this, the likelyhood is that the inbreeds are in fact all up north :lol:

[gummo]

Hey,

If you can&#39;t keep it in your pants keep it in the family. Isn&#39;t that the moto of the British Royal family :P

[Capitalist Imperial]

Originally posted by [email protected] 23 2004, 08:27 PM
I think some reading might be required, CI ;)

http://www.bbc.co.uk/history/society_cultu...abbott_01.shtml (http://www.bbc.co.uk/history/society_culture/multicultural/dabbott_01.shtml)

http://www.museumoflondon.org.uk/MOLsite/l.../general_3.html (http://www.museumoflondon.org.uk/MOLsite/learning/features_facts/general_3.html)

http://www.statistics.gov.uk/census2001/pr...rank_ethnic.asp (http://www.statistics.gov.uk/census2001/profiles/rank/rank_ethnic.asp)

So now we&#39;ve safely expunged that idea, let us do the same for the southern US

http://www.censusscope.org/us/rank_race_bl...anamerican.html (http://www.censusscope.org/us/rank_race_blackafricanamerican.html)

According to this, the likelyhood is that the inbreeds are in fact all up north :lol:
Sorry, Dacuban, good articles, but the level of diversity has still not reached even close to that of the United states.

Just look at the royal family compared to the Kennedy&#39;s.

Look at Brits Vs. Americans

Sorry, sir, simple empirical observation tells the story here.

Even up north, all Americans are immigrants from all over the world, and european decendents are from all over europe. There is no arguing that the US is much more diverse than the UK.

Again, simple observation is all we need.

[Osman Ghazi]

Just look at the royal family compared to the Kennedy&#39;s.

Look at Brits Vs. Americans


Umm, but if the British are inbred and Americans were British first, wouldn&#39;t that mean that Americans are also inbred?

Besides, who gives a ? As far as I&#39;m concerned your all inbred&#33; :lol: :lol: ;)

[Capitalist Imperial]

Originally posted by Osman [email protected]ul 23 2004, 10:00 PM

Umm, but if the British are inbred and Americans were British first, wouldn&#39;t that mean that Americans are also inbred?

Besides, who gives a ? As far as I&#39;m concerned your all inbred&#33; :lol: :lol: ;)
LOL, I PROBABLY DESERVED THAT.

American colonies were british sponsored at first, but America has had immigrants from all over since they were colonies.

Thats the point, the brits started mingling with other immigrants.

[DaCuBaN]

more reading ;)

http://www.great-britain.co.uk/history/history.htm


America has had immigrants from all over since they were colonies.

Since colonial days, immigration to the UK and US has been similarly restrictive. Technically, the US had an &#39;open door&#39; policy up until the beginning of the 20th century, but in reality they were all locked up on that Island off Manhattan :rolleyes:

*EDIT*

There is no specific aim of this; If a thread is to be worthy of retention, it has to have some substance.

[Capitalist Imperial]

Originally posted by [email protected] 23 2004, 10:27 PM
more reading ;)

http://www.great-britain.co.uk/history/history.htm



Since colonial days, immigration to the UK and US has been similarly restrictive. Technically, the US had an &#39;open door&#39; policy up until the beginning of the 20th century, but in reality they were all locked up on that Island off Manhattan :rolleyes:

*EDIT*

There is no specific aim of this; If a thread is to be worthy of retention, it has to have some substance.
But DaCuBan, I&#39;m not just talking about restrictions, I&#39;m talking about how many people actualy choose to emmigrate to the respective nations. The USA has a reputation as a land of opportunity, and has for years, and naturaly has had more immigrants, much more, than the UK, and more diverse at that. The US has a higher proportion of people of African decent, hispanic decent, and asian decent, than the UK. The UK may have a slight edge on people from india and the middle east, proportionately speaking, but I&#39;m not even sure of that. Also, the US has a better mix of people of europenan decent than the UK even does, as usually if you stay in europe, you&#39;ll stay in your own nation.

And I dn&#39;t know where in the world you determined that the US has restrictive immigration policy, especially compared to Britain. People come and go freely at the borders, airports, and docks every single day, and that last link you gave said little about US immigration policy, but rest assured, our policy has been as open as ever. Come spend the day at san Ysidro and you&#39;ll see what I mean.

[DaCuBaN]

The UK and the US take similar attitudes to immigration into their respective countries:

Something to offer? welcome&#33; Nothing to offer? Fuck off&#33;

I&#39;ll agree that the US retained the open door far longer, but there is very little difference between the two. It&#39;s no easier to get the equivelant of a green card to the UK than it is to the US for a professional.

[Capitalist Imperial]

Originally posted by [email protected] 24 2004, 12:13 AM
The UK and the US take similar attitudes to immigration into their respective countries:

Something to offer? welcome&#33; Nothing to offer? Fuck off&#33;

I&#39;ll agree that the US retained the open door far longer, but there is very little difference between the two. It&#39;s no easier to get the equivelant of a green card to the UK than it is to the US for a professional.
Something to offer? welcome&#33; Nothing to offer? Fuck off&#33;

That is absolutely not true.

You should really come with me to the San Ysidro border and see how many unskilled laborers, or even migrant farm workers, and their children, with nothing but the shirts on their backs, are let through in one day, heck, even in one hour.

Our argument has morphed from "who has a better gene pool" to "how close is their respective immigration policies" LOL. ;)

[DaCuBaN]

There&#39;s just no beating progressive discussion :lol:

Technically, the US classes these people as refugees do they not? The policy in this case is very different to that of standard immigration for skilled workers.

Of course, if you&#39;re one of the &#39;rat-pack&#39; and wish to deposit in the US or UK, the door is always open. Although why anyone with money would put it into the UK so our government can take 40% of it is beyond me :lol:

[Capitalist Imperial]

Originally posted by [email protected] 24 2004, 12:33 AM
There&#39;s just no beating progressive discussion :lol:

Technically, the US classes these people as refugees do they not? The policy in this case is very different to that of standard immigration for skilled workers.

Of course, if you&#39;re one of the &#39;rat-pack&#39; and wish to deposit in the US or UK, the door is always open. Although why anyone with money would put it into the UK so our government can take 40% of it is beyond me :lol:
They actually classify them as "temporary migrant workers".

I don&#39;t think that the US has seperate policies for skilled compared to unskilled workers, though skilled workers may in fact tend to have more resources (i.e. money/education) to more quickly accelerate the immigration process.

[Fidelbrand]

Originally posted by Capitalist [email protected] 24 2004, 08:47 AM
I don&#39;t think that the US has seperate policies for skilled compared to unskilled workers, though skilled workers may in fact tend to have more resources (i.e. money/education) to more quickly accelerate the immigration process.
you don&#39;t think....? yes, you don&#39;t. :P
Think about the the impersonal market under global capitalism~

[Nyder]

Originally posted by Fidel [email protected] 18 2004, 06:41 PM
Ok, I stayed at a place called "Campamento Internacional Julio Antonio Mella" about an hour outside Havana. We were warned that we were expected to live as the Cuban people live, and this ment that there were no hot showers, few flushing toilets (a bucket of water was used instead) and also that the meals were very simple with smallish portions.

Every day we had to work in the mornings from about 7 - 12 am, the work was a mixture of weeding the cane, constructing a clinic and tending to the orange groves. We worked under the supervision of the Cuban workers with the basic tools that they have to work with. Obviously there is a cronic shortage of basic tools and this was reflected by the fact that on the construction site for example, they would streighten old nails to re-use, and had almost no electrical tools. Also it is worth noting that there did not appear to be any health and safety measures in place, so no hard-hats or sturdy scaffolding.

Back to the lifestyle, which I think is worth expanding on. As I mentioned, the meals were very simple. The usual breakfast was a stale roll and glass of what tasted like goats milk. For lunch we usually were given rice with black beans, a little portion of processed meat and some home-grown veg such as tomato or plantain (which I found revolting). Dinner would be similar to lunch. All clothes had to be hand-washed in cold water, power cuts due to fuel shortages were regular, beds were simply bits of wood flung together, and there was no such luxury as air-conditioning or sometimes even a normal fan.


Sounds like a total shithole.

[gummo]

Originally posted by [email protected] 26 2004, 03:31 PM
Sounds like a total shithole.
I am sure that working in a state owned fica is much better than the McDonalds job he has at home.

The grass is always greener.

[Nyder]

That icon is funny as hell. :lol:

[Louis Pio]

Sounds like a total shithole.

Yes hard manual labor always sound bad for the fat fastfood junkie.

[gummo]

Originally posted by [email protected] 29 2004, 04:25 PM

Yes hard manual labor always sound bad for the fat fastfood junkie.
Whatever floats your boat&#33; If you would like to work as a manual laborer then more power to you. Maybe you could replace a mule at some farm.

[Louis Pio]

I don&#39;t want to take your job...

Don&#39;t you ever get tired of nothing being able to argue but only write pathetic oneliners?

[gummo]

Originally posted by [email protected] 29 2004, 06:36 PM
I don&#39;t want to take your job...

Don&#39;t you ever get tired of nothing being able to argue but only write pathetic oneliners?
Ohh brother, your an ass.

There is nothing to argue about. Your ideals are pathetic and rarely deserve a response of more than one line. Come back to earth smurfette.

[Louis Pio]

As I said:
Don&#39;t you ever get tired of nothing being able to argue but only write pathetic oneliners?

Now everytime you write a post just consider this my reply. I have yet to see you write an argument.

[gummo]

Originally posted by [email protected] 29 2004, 06:43 PM
As I said:

Now everytime you write a post just consider this my reply. I have yet to see you write an argument.
I understand, now go play ping pong with someone else smurfette.

[Louis Pio]

Well what can one say :rolleyes:

[dopediana]

Originally posted by [email protected] 29 2004, 05:05 PM
Whatever floats your boat&#33; If you would like to work as a manual laborer then more power to you. Maybe you could replace a mule at some farm.
people who write things like this are the biggest self-entitling pieces of shit ever, displaying such disregard for the most basic laborers who support the livelihood of twats like gummo who feel no gratitude whatsoever for the cabbage in their "all-american" coleslaw.

[Fidel Castro]

Sounds like a total shithole.

Well Nyder, you obviously are far more enlightened than I concerning the conditions of the places I lived in and experienced in my time in Cuba. So please my friend, feel free to explain to me all about how it was for me, and what I saw and did. Either that or shut the fuck up you dippit little shit. :lol:

To be very honest, some of the housing estates here in the UK, especially areas of Glasgow, are far far worse than anything I could see in Havana, Matanzas or Cardenas. I can also assure you that in the dead of night I felt safe walking the streets. In certain parts of Edinburgh or Glasgow I would worry about stabbing, mugging or drunken attacks.

Also, the natural beauty of the place is astounding, and they don&#39;t appear to be thriving on fucking up the land on which they have to live.


I am sure that working in a state owned fica is much better than the McDonalds job he has at home.

Sorry, wrong again. I don&#39;t work in McDonalds. Besides, losers don&#39;t work in McDonalds, loser eat McDonalds.

If you must know, working the land and helping with construction is far more satisfying than working for some lazy fucker who is filling his pockets with the fruits of my labour. Then again an ignorant fuck such as yourself would more than likely thrive on such a system.


Maybe you could replace a mule at some farm.

Better than the sheep in office blocks, "must get report in, BAAAAA, must get bonus, BAAAAAA, must please boss, BAAAAAA" :lol:


Some of the responses to this thread have been very interesting indeed. I am amazed at the amount of people who have never been to Cuba, who seem to think they know better. The typical American psyche is rife here, "I am a patriotic American, and therefore I know best&#33;"

[Nyder]

Originally posted by Fidel [email protected] 30 2004, 02:43 AM
Well Nyder, you obviously are far more enlightened than I concerning the conditions of the places I lived in and experienced in my time in Cuba. So please my friend, feel free to explain to me all about how it was for me, and what I saw and did. Either that or shut the fuck up you dippit little shit. :lol:



You said it yourself, what the conditions in Cuba were like. Now, considering the fact that I am no where near a millionaire, I still have:
*a hot shower
*a flushing toilet
*a huge variety of international food to eat
*I get paid for my job
*if I don&#39;t like my job I can get another one
*I&#39;ve never ever heard of construction workers having to re-use old nails
*a clothes washing machine
*electricity
*a nice comfortable bed
*yes I also have an air-conditioner/heater

"Oh but they are all just materialistic creature comforts" - says the lefty nihilist. "They have free health care, education and are guaranteed a job". - HA HA&#33; They have sub-standard health care, education full of propaganda and hard manual labour - and they have NO CHOICE AT ALL&#33;&#33;

But since you love Cuba so much, why don&#39;t you go and live in your little paradise and leave us sane people alone. :ph34r:


To be very honest, some of the housing estates here in the UK, especially areas of Glasgow, are far far worse than anything I could see in Havana, Matanzas or Cardenas. I can also assure you that in the dead of night I felt safe walking the streets. In certain parts of Edinburgh or Glasgow I would worry about stabbing, mugging or drunken attacks.

Oh, C&#39;MON - you are comparing the WORST areas of Britain with the BEST areas in Cuba? I bet even the worst areas are a hell of a lot better then most of Cuba.

[Professor Moneybags]

Originally posted by [email protected] 3 2004, 06:16 PM
You said it yourself, what the conditions in Cuba were like. Now, considering the fact that I am no where near a millionaire, I still have:
*a hot shower
*a flushing toilet
*a huge variety of international food to eat
*I get paid for my job
*if I don&#39;t like my job I can get another one
*I&#39;ve never ever heard of construction workers having to re-use old nails
*a clothes washing machine
*electricity
*a nice comfortable bed
*yes I also have an air-conditioner/heater
You forgot that you can also read, write and spread anti-government literature and still be a free man afterwards.

[Commie Girl]

Originally posted by [email protected] 3 2004, 12:16 PM
You said it yourself, what the conditions in Cuba were like. Now, considering the fact that I am no where near a millionaire, I still have:
*a hot shower
*a flushing toilet
*a huge variety of international food to eat
*I get paid for my job
*if I don&#39;t like my job I can get another one
*I&#39;ve never ever heard of construction workers having to re-use old nails
*a clothes washing machine
*electricity
*a nice comfortable bed
*yes I also have an air-conditioner/heater

"Oh but they are all just materialistic creature comforts" - says the lefty nihilist. "They have free health care, education and are guaranteed a job". - HA HA&#33; They have sub-standard health care, education full of propaganda and hard manual labour - and they have NO CHOICE AT ALL&#33;&#33;

But since you love Cuba so much, why don&#39;t you go and live in your little paradise and leave us sane people alone. :ph34r:



Oh, C&#39;MON - you are comparing the WORST areas of Britain with the BEST areas in Cuba? I bet even the worst areas are a hell of a lot better then most of Cuba.
What? We went to a couple of fishing villages in Cuba and went into some homes...they were small, yes, but had all the comforts a human being requires, including:

*flush toilets
*telephone
*washing machines, no dryers...except mother nature
*electricity
*fans in rooms, not airconditioning
*beds
*hot water
*refridgerator
*sewing machine

The Cuban&#39;s have one of the BEST health Care systems in the world&#33;

There literacy rate is extremely high, much better than the U&#036;&#33;

A majority are University Graduates&#33;

We did NOT see any homeless people in our travels&#33;

Felt safe any time of day or night

[refuse_resist]

Technically, the US classes these people as refugees do they not?

Nope. Here they&#39;re called "illegal aliens".

And the ones who do come here to seek work pay their taxes, which is an estimated &#036;133 billion, just like every other citizen, and are denied basic rights and services. All this while at the same time they&#39;re being hired at extremely low wages because the bosses know they will profit greatly from this.

Take El Salvador, for instance. One of their primary sources of income is the money that immigrants send back to their families.

Talk about exploitation of the poor...

[Fidel Castro]

Now, considering the fact that I am no where near a millionaire, I still have:


a hot shower

Actually, hot water in Cuba is available at certain times. However, the lack of hot water is due mainly to the fuel shortage. Of course, perhaps your brain can&#39;t compute the simple idea that during a fuel shortage hot water is not a priority in a tropical climate. :lol:


a flushing toilet

A bucket of water thrown in the pan does the same job. It certainly doesn&#39;t appear to do a great deal of harm, as there is no cholera or open sewers.


a huge variety of international food to eat

Food brought to your table at what price? Slave labour, exploited masses, wage slaves? Of course, as long as you and your Yankee comrades can become the fattest nation on earth with a clear consience that&#39;s fine.

In Cuba of course they prefer "TU-COLA" to "COCA COLA" and drink "CRISTAL" rather than "BUDWEISER". However notice that in Cuba, a nation that recieves no US aid in any form, they eat better than in many nations that are supposedly US-friendly.


I get paid for my job

Sure, then you pay medical insurance (if you can afford it), and rent/mortgage (if you can afford it), pay for all your food (if you can afford it), send your kids to university (if you can afford it), and feed your baby (if you can afford it)

Need I say that in Cuba, all of the above are provided free, with the exception of food, of which basic needs are met by the state. Mothers recieve milk for their children each week and then they recieve free school meals. University is free and students recieve a living allowance whilst studying. Healthcare and schooling are free and householders pay either no or a token rent.

In Cuba every person has a house, every person recieves food, every baby is fed, every child is educated, every ill-person is treated, and every student can survive during study.


if I don&#39;t like my job I can get another one

I have never seen or heard anything to suggest that a Cuban worker cannot move to another profession. Whilst in Cuba I met a man who moved from construction worker to tour guide.


I&#39;ve never ever heard of construction workers having to re-use old nails
Let the US resume normal trade relations with Cuba and this problem can be easily sorted. Nails can be bought at half the cost.

Funnily enough, why in your oppinion do you blockade Cuba, a pretty harmless nation, and yet trade normally with much worse regimes? Hell the US has even made trade with Saddam&#39;s Iraq, Iran and North Korea rather than even consider lifting the barbaric blockade.


a clothes washing machine

Most people realise that regular supplies of hot water are required for washing machines, see above, DUHHHH :lol:


electricity

Strangely enough, almost every house has an electricity supply under the current regime, whilst under the US-backed Batista regime, electricity was scarce.

Again the fuel shortage is to blame for regular blackouts.


a nice comfortable bed

Did I say my bed was uncomfortable, it was certainly a bit rickety but I never lost a nights sleep. I think you are really struggling now.


yes I also have an air-conditioner/heater

Which guzzles lots of electricity. Plus, why on earth would a heater be required in Cuba? and also if you go to spain, italy, greece, most people do not have air-con in their homes. Simply because they do not find the heat especially uncomfortable.


HA HA&#33; They have sub-standard health care, education full of propaganda and hard manual labour - and they have NO CHOICE AT ALL&#33;&#33;

Sub-Standard? you obviously have never set foot inside a Cuban medical establishment before, you really do know fuck-all about what you are saying don&#39;t you? Education full of propaganda? Again your lack of knowledge on this matter is clear, the fantastic results in Mathematics, the Sciences, Spanish language and Sports clearly show that the government is not focusing education on "indoctrination". Besides, just watch Fox News, or listen to all this shit about the "War on Terror" and tell me you are not subject to propaganda.


You forgot that you can also read, write and spread anti-government literature and still be a free man afterwards.

Not if you are being paid by a foreign government, this is known in most nations as treason. The US interest section in Havana is a hive of assholes, they are always trying to stir the shit up by flashing the dollars around and tempting Cubans with the promise of US Visas to visit families.

[Nyder]

Originally posted by Fidel [email protected] 4 2004, 12:00 AM








And why are they using fuel to generate electricity? Can&#39;t they afford a more energy efficient power station?

At least Castro is able to have all of these creature comforts that we take for granted.


Sub-Standard? you obviously have never set foot inside a Cuban medical establishment before, you really do know fuck-all about what you are saying don&#39;t you? Education full of propaganda? Again your lack of knowledge on this matter is clear, the fantastic results in Mathematics, the Sciences, Spanish language and Sports clearly show that the government is not focusing education on "indoctrination". Besides, just watch Fox News, or listen to all this shit about the "War on Terror" and tell me you are not subject to propaganda.

It&#39;s obvious that their health system would be sub-standard because even in rich countries, the socialised health system is always in a mess. In fact that&#39;s almost all you ever hear about on the news. You never hear of private companies having the same problems, though. So I imagine a much poorer country like Cuba with only one organisation providing health would be a lot worse.

Education - so what if they get good results? It hardly benefits their economy, which is set up for poverty anyway. And I bet for certain that Castro uses schools to spill his communist propaganda so that no one challenges his authority. What choice in schooling do you have in Cuba? - Government schooling, and not much else.

[Commie Girl]

Originally posted by [email protected] 4 2004, 09:39 AM
And why are they using fuel to generate electricity? Can&#39;t they afford a more energy efficient power station?

At least Castro is able to have all of these creature comforts that we take for granted.



It&#39;s obvious that their health system would be sub-standard because even in rich countries, the socialised health system is always in a mess. In fact that&#39;s almost all you ever hear about on the news. You never hear of private companies having the same problems, though. So I imagine a much poorer country like Cuba with only one organisation providing health would be a lot worse.

Education - so what if they get good results? It hardly benefits their economy, which is set up for poverty anyway. And I bet for certain that Castro uses schools to spill his communist propaganda so that no one challenges his authority. What choice in schooling do you have in Cuba? - Government schooling, and not much else.
Link?

Do some research, your generalizations on Socialized medicine shows your ignorance.

[Fidel Castro]

And why are they using fuel to generate electricity? Can&#39;t they afford a more energy efficient power station?

Interesting question. Firstly, it is pretty obvious that if Cuba were to invest in nuclear power facilities (which they do not wish to do for environmental reasons) the US would have a hissy-fit and start up all this WMD shit again.

Cleaner, renewable sources of energy are preferable, but under the current economic conditions, energy which can be produced in large amounts for a relatively low cost is always going to prevail.

Nuclear energy is too risky for Cuba, eco-friendy energy (solar, wind) are not reliable enough and would require huge envestment.


At least Castro is able to have all of these creature comforts that we take for granted.

How do you know this? You just suppose that Castro is sat in some lavish palace living it up.

Castro is not a flashy man, he prefers his usual military Olives to a suit, he is driven around in an army jeep rather than a limo, and of course he turned the former presidential palace (which I&#39;ve seen for myself) into the "Museo de la Revolution".

I would imagine the way in Cuba is the same as the rest of the world, which is to keep their government safe (security is of course an issue when the CIA wants your presidents head on a plate), in good health, and at least basically comfortable. Fidel is certainly no champaign socialist, but he is the head of state

[FarfromNear]

Originally posted by [email protected] 20 2004, 04:30 PM
Capitalist Imperial,

The Cuban population is one of the most sophisticatedly educated bunch of homo sapiens. The government rid them of their delusions from capitalism and they have their own heads to think what they need most.

Cuba was a whorehouse when Batista farted his notorious thought of making his homeland a palace for the Yanks to drink, slut and gamble. Under Fidel, the people are patriot and objective, they view the U.S. Government as evil but had no pigeon eyes towards the Americans. And now you say it is a "good stgaing for invasion and [liberation]"

Go read " Rogue nation : American unilateralism and the failure of good intentions " by Clyde Prestowitzand & see what your fellow-American wrote. Really,.. it&#39;s a good read.......SIR~~~~&#33; :ph34r:
The government rid them of those capitalistic ideas? Of course, they are in full control of the government. Just like in North Korea. Where they get 5 hours of GOVERNMENT television. And yes, they have all been trained to love Fidel, they see him as a God. They are taught in schools, since they are little, to love Cuba, hate Capitalism and America. There is no freedom in not being able to choose what you want your kids to learn. It is all run by the state, they control everything.

Batista was a dumbass too. Everybody supported the revolution because they wanted Batista out, who wouldve known they were gonna have Fidel.

[Fidel Castro]

they have all been trained to love Fidel, they see him as a God.

You are wrong. The majority of Cubans see Fidel for what he is, their president and leader of the revolution. Respect for Fidel is high, he is loved by many as any national hero.

There are no statues to Fidel, none, no streets, schools, hospitals or anything named after him. At most there will be some quote from Fidel on a billboard, or a book about him in the library.

The Cuban people are no flock of mindless sheep. They see what happens around them and they have no fear of criticism or accepting when things go wrong. They don&#39;t just spend all their time worshipping Fidel and dancing around burning US flags you know.


They are taught in schools, since they are little, to love Cuba, hate Capitalism and America.

No. They are taught to show compassion to all peoples of the world. To give blood when the Twin Towers fell, to pity the American people and their capitalist way.

[Capitalist Imperial]

We need pity from no one. Save it for the French.

[Fidel Castro]

We need pity from no one. Save it for the French.

Insult the French if you please, but to be fair, it&#39;s not the French that appears to be the most detested nation on Earth.

Plus, the way the US is going it is getting less and less pity from the world. After 9/11 concern for and solidarity with the US around the World was high, but Bush has basically turned all that on it&#39;s head.

[Capitalist Imperial]

Originally posted by Fidel [email protected] 7 2004, 10:26 AM

Insult the French if you please, but to be fair, it&#39;s not the French that appears to be the most detested nation on Earth.

Plus, the way the US is going it is getting less and less pity from the world. After 9/11 concern for and solidarity with the US around the World was high, but Bush has basically turned all that on it&#39;s head.
The US is not as detested as you suggest. There may be a few brows lifting right now, but I think that you are assuming your extreme views match most of the world&#39;s, which isn&#39;t true.

Which nation still has the most immigrants by far every single day? many from cuba, by the way.

Besides, go ahead and detest us if you want, but don&#39;t pity us, we don&#39;t need it.

The French legitimately do.

[Osman Ghazi]

The US is not as detested as you suggest.

You assert this as a fact, but have you even left the US within the past year? So how the fuck would you know? FNC?


There may be a few brows lifting right now, but I think that you are assuming your extreme views match most of the world&#39;s, which isn&#39;t true.

Ironically, it is you who is making the assumption, again without evidence.


Besides, go ahead and detest us if you want, but don&#39;t pity us, we don&#39;t need it.

The French legitimately do.

Ah, ethnocentric nationalism, my old friend. If it makes you feel like a big man to say that you&#39;re better than the French, go ahead, We&#39;ll just point and laugh at the stupidity of it.

[Fidel Castro]

The US is not as detested as you suggest.

Bullshit, everyone I know detests Bush and the US government and believes that the US is a danger to the world. Almost everyone I have met has been anti-Iraq War and believes the "War on Terror" to be a bullshit excuse to take away civil liberties and infringe on human rights.

Sympathy and support for the US is at an all-time low, you just have to step outside the US to see it.


Which nation still has the most immigrants by far every single day? many from cuba, by the way.

This really does not help back up your view that the US is not currently the most detested of nations in world oppinion. Most of these immigrants enter the US simply because they are under the illusion that everyone in the US is wealthy, happy and comfortable. Most of course get a nasty shock upon arrival, just look at the FANTASTIC jobs Puerto Ricans get&#33;

[Louis Pio]

Here in Europe many people detest Bush and the government. Not americans as a people though. People are just very overbearing towards americans. something along the lines of "forgive them lord because they don&#39;t know any better".
In the arab world it&#39;s even worse most people detest everything about america because they preatedly interefered in the region in the last 50 years.
A good example is Iran were people want the mullahs gone, but thye sure don&#39;t want the US to butt in. They still remember the US support for the Shah and removing Mossadeq.

[Fidel Castro]

Here in Europe many people detest Bush and the government.

Your right in saying that most of the hostility is aimed at the US regime rather than the American people. The feeling there seems to be towards the American population is one of frustration, you know, "why are they so ignorant?", "why do they go along with this that and the other?"

[Danton]

Most American citizens are thick, fat, annoying, lazy, wasters, FACT.

[Nyder]

And most Cubans are impoverished, extremely poor, brainwashed into communist propaganda, un-empowered, oppressed and subjugated.

Beware of any country which has to re-use old nails, has massive food shortages and where you can&#39;t buy a decent cafe latte.

[Intifada]

I assume you have visited Cuba then, Nyder?

[Capitalist Imperial]

Originally posted by [email protected] 10 2004, 10:27 AM
Most American citizens are thick, fat, annoying, lazy, wasters, FACT.

FACT.

LOL, isn&#39;t it strange that as one accuses Americans of being ignorant, he ignorantly uses "FACT" wrong? :lol: :lol: :lol:

I mean, he didn&#39;t only use it wrong, he was claiming that his opinion was fact, when, by definition, it is the exact opposite of a fact. :lol: :lol: :lol: How can he claim that Americans are ignorant, when in the very sentence where he does so he displays his own stupidity and has to be corrected by an American?

Not only is he stereotyping, but he can&#39;t even uunderstand the definition of a basic word. Double ignorance.

LOL, it look like someone got a red-star lunchbox for X-mas, but not a dictionary.
Talk about an ignorant waste&#33;

LOL, LMAO, ROFL :lol: :lol: :lol: :lol: :lol:

[Capitalist Imperial]

Originally posted by Fidel [email protected] 9 2004, 09:07 PM

Your right in saying that most of the hostility is aimed at the US regime rather than the American people. The feeling there seems to be towards the American population is one of frustration, you know, "why are they so ignorant?", "why do they go along with this that and the other?"
LOL, yeah, thats it.

They are so damn enlightened, and we are so brianwahsed.

Thats it, right on the money.

Jeez, get serious.

[Capitalist Imperial]

People are just very overbearing towards americans. something along the lines of "forgive them lord because they don&#39;t know any better".

I could nit-pick the same way about the Europreans I&#39;ve met who are ignorant, thinking that all Californians are surfers and that we all know celebrities.

Let alone the fact that many europeans are still really unhygenic. I mean, deoderant was invented years ago, and there is nothing wrong with taking a shower every day.


In the arab world it&#39;s even worse most people detest everything about america because they preatedly interefered in the region in the last 50 years.

You mean that certain nations in the middle east are upset because we are taking action in areas that they themselves want to interfere in, but we are just more effective at acheiving our ends, and thus they are frustrated.

[Louis Pio]

I could nit-pick the same way about the Europreans I&#39;ve met who are ignorant, thinking that all Californians are surfers and that we all know celebrities.

Learn to spell before you pick on others spelling and use of words.


Let alone the fact that many europeans are still really unhygenic. I mean, deoderant was invented years ago, and there is nothing wrong with taking a shower every day.

:rolleyes:
Hehe we were taliking about politics. Not petty *****ing. If you can&#39;t take people talking about the obvious then don&#39;t bother. Your own attitude is helping the view most have of americans as arrogant and single minded. So at least you should be able to take the heat.


You mean that certain nations in the middle east are upset because we are taking action in areas that they themselves want to interfere in, but we are just more effective at acheiving our ends, and thus they are frustrated.

Haha actually not. Your interfering in the democratic elections in Iran in the 50&#39;ies is what later helped the mullahs to power. That&#39;s why people hate you, you screw up and then you blame everyone else. You should study Iran a bit, it&#39;s a good example of US shortsightedness. Something your known for.

[Danton]

Originally posted by Capitalist [email protected] 10 2004, 01:33 PM
How can he claim that Americans are ignorant, when in the very sentence where he does so he displays his own stupidity and has to be corrected by an American?


I am American, I&#39;m fat as fuck, I&#39;m lazy - I can&#39;t even spell. Plus I never leave home without my fanny pack. FACT - in the David Brent sense of the word.

[Capitalist Imperial]

Originally posted by [email protected] 10 2004, 03:05 PM

Learn to spell before you pick on others spelling and use of words.



:rolleyes:
Hehe we were taliking about politics. Not petty *****ing. If you can&#39;t take people talking about the obvious then don&#39;t bother. Your own attitude is helping the view most have of americans as arrogant and single minded. So at least you should be able to take the heat.



Haha actually not. Your interfering in the democratic elections in Iran in the 50&#39;ies is what later helped the mullahs to power. That&#39;s why people hate you, you screw up and then you blame everyone else. You should study Iran a bit, it&#39;s a good example of US shortsightedness. Something your known for.


Learn to spell before you pick on others spelling and use of words.

1) I&#39;ve never called anyone on spelling. I will call on word use. Feel free call me on word use. You&#39;re not going to get me, though. Why don&#39;t you address the fact that he was wrong and drew 1st blood instead of attacking me?

Besides, based on averages, I probalbly can spell better than you anyway. I just don&#39;t always double-check all of my type. Again, as far as word use, take your best shot. You&#39;ll lose, though. As usual, the American will win, sir.


:rolleyes:
Hehe we were taliking about politics. Not petty *****ing.


really?


from Danton:

Most American citizens are thick, fat, annoying, lazy, wasters, FACT.

That was the entirety of his post. And this post occured before mine, which was merely a response. Do you care to explain how this was politics and not petty *****ing? Don&#39;t ingnore this part of my post either. Refusal to respond will be interpreted as capitulation (Do you want to check that word?).


Your own attitude is helping the view most have of americans as arrogant and single minded. So at least you should be able to take the heat.

Hitting a little too close to home?

Speed-stick works the best, make sure to put it under both armpits.

[Capitalist Imperial]

Originally posted by [email protected] 10 2004, 03:18 PM
I am American, I&#39;m fat as fuck, I&#39;m lazy - I can&#39;t even spell. Plus I never leave home without my fanny pack. FACT - in the David Brent sense of the word.
LOL, LOL, OK, my man, you have me there.

That was gold.

[Fidel Castro]

"Without the initiative, invention, and innovation inherent to the individual within free competition, and the resulting benefit to everyone, the entire collective of mankind ceases to progress."

"Without the oppertunity, ability and equil right to the spoils of the initiative, invention and innovation of mankind, there can be no true benifit to mankind"

-Myself

[Capitalist Imperial]

Originally posted by Fidel [email protected] 13 2004, 01:45 AM

"Without the oppertunity, ability and equil right to the spoils of the initiative, invention and innovation of mankind, there can be no true benifit to mankind"

-Myself
The whole point is that the spoi;ls are the incentive within competition, which breeds the progress in the 1st place.


No competition, little spoils.

[Fidel Castro]

The whole point is that the spoi;ls are the incentive within competition, which breeds the progress in the 1st place.


No competition, little spoils.

The spoils are also the incentive within co-operation, and it has the added bonus of benifiting many more than competition ever can.

To benifit from natural resources, science, academics etc should never be a privalege, but a basic human right. This is especially true in cases in which we can se superpowers raping and exploiting the Third World of it&#39;s resources.