Collective farming

[CubanFox]

Collective farming. Agriculture whereby farmers are not paid a wage, but rather given a percentage of their farm's net output. The government also expropriates the farmland and makes the farmers deliver a set amount to government stores every so often.

In just about everywhere except Hungary*, and, curiously, Israel, this has failed cataclysmically and people would have starved but for the little private plots that they had.

Every socialist country has collectivised its agriculture. Why is this? And knowing how a collectivised agriculture causes shortages, should this be implemented in any future socialist countries?

*In 1980, Hungary, a country of 93,030 km², and 95% collectivised farms, exported twice as much produce as France, a country of 675,417 km². I wonder why that is, perhaps such community spirit is ingrained in Hungarian culture?

[Raisa]

We should study the places collectivization has worked in like hungary more beofre coming to a complete decision.

[ComradeRed]

I feel that as soon as communes are organized, each commune should determine how much food it'll need and allocate that many people farming and some more (to be on the safe side). Every year, determine the surplus, and ask if any of the farmers would preffer to do something else (work in the communal industry), until you have a couple (dozen?) bushels surplus. I am no farm expert, so I cannot say how much surplus should be made, but someone could figure it out. So every commune would be self sufficient (food wise) ideally... But as Raisa pointed out, we should study Israel and Hungary to determine why it worked there...

[antieverything]

Agricultural output isn't something you can plan ahead for acurately...that's the bad news. The good news is that almost every country in the world has enough food to feed its entire population. If grain was distributed equally there would be over 2,500 calories per person per day. If we add grass-fed livestock and non-grain, non-meat food there is about 4 pounds of food per person per day. The fact that collectivization resulted in actual food shortages in many cases not that long ago doesn't say much for it.

The real solution to food distribution and production in the world today is simply agrarian reform and nationalized distribution. Farms don't really need to be terribly efficient, in fact, the more efficient farming becomes the more hunger there is since efficiency-increasing machinary and other impliments cost money and result in the smaller farmers being put out of business.

So there isn't any need for farm "communes" since family farms can produce enough to feed everyone in a locality.

[Rasta Sapian]

people are always complaining that there are no jobs, or no good jobs, if we all got together and left the cities, we would find ample land to be converted into agricultural zones, and together we could not only feed ourselves but all of the masses around the world, labour is needed and natural resourses, nothing more, nothing less...............................

think about it, find some like minded individuals, and commune it up! :)

[Subversive Pessimist]

What are the major positive effects we will get from collective farming? :unsure:

[ComradeRed]

Why not have automated hydroponic farming? This would fix the problem!

[redstar2000]

The trend under capitalism seems to be the "collectivization" of agriculture into corporate "factory farms"...by the time of the next wave of proletarian revolutions in the "west", there may be no more "family farms".

That would probably not be a bad thing; "family farmers" have historically supported anti-communist politics in many countries. They also tend to be religious, violent towards women and children, racist, etc.

Marx did not coin the phrase "muck of rural ignorance" without reason.

:redstar2000:

The Redstar2000 Papers (http://www.redstar2000papers.fightcapitalism.net)
A site about communist ideas

[Saint-Just]

Collective farms have failed for specific reasons besides the idea of socialist-style management. And, in many cases collective farms have increased agricultural output. It is not true the collective farming has only worked in Hungary and Israel. Farms can be so heavily mechanised these days that they do not require a massive work force. Criticising collective farming is criticising collective ownership in essence, and, to do that means one is not a socialist at all.

[Rasta Sapian]

one word.............................ORGANIZE and then only will you realize what your labour can do for you and your fellow commrads.

hydroponics are a great idea for the right type of environment. ie. wetlands and marsh area, which could inturn be used as hydroponic growing feilds, or used indoors in greenhouses in more remote areas with cold climates or desert climates.

lets not miss any points however, we have a large and evergrowing population, which can and should be utilized for agricultural labour. To not only create jobs, but to ensure that the farms are run effeciantly and diligently.

therefore automation (expensive to create and maintain) is not nessisarily the key to utopia, but rather the chain to oppression.

I have been to monestaries where the monks themselves were the farm labourers covering the feilds, which were in very healthy condition indeed!

[Frederick_Engles]

alot of people seem to think that collectivisation killed millions of Ukranians under Stalin, but I don't know how much truth there is in that.

[Snitza]

Yes, how much responsibility should be laid on Stalin and the socialist regime? In the world of farming, isn't it true that famines come about regardless of what 'system' of farming is used? We've had thousands of famines under capitalism; the famines in the USSR were then, unpreventable, and irrelevant to the fact that socialism was being practiced? i.e., the famines still would have happened if the Czars were still in power?

[antieverything]

Collective farms have failed for specific reasons besides the idea of socialist-style management. And, in many cases collective farms have increased agricultural output. It is not true the collective farming has only worked in Hungary and Israel. Farms can be so heavily mechanised these days that they do not require a massive work force. Criticising collective farming is criticising collective ownership in essence, and, to do that means one is not a socialist at all.
Sources, please. Saying that criticizing a terribly inefficient and unpopular (thus undemocratic) is criticizing socialism is ignorant.