Amusing picture.

[gummo]

http://www.jewishworldreview.com/op-art/israel_fence_toon_cover.jpg



It's so true.

[Sabocat]

Elderly Palestinian crushed to death


Monday 12 July 2004, 13:18 Makka Time, 10:18 GMT


Thousands have been left homeless due to demolitions




An aged paraplegic Palestinian has been crushed to death when Israeli occupation troops demolished his home in the southern Gaza Strip.



Mahmud Khalaf Allah, 75, was killed early on Monday during an invasion in Khan Yunus refugee camp when soldiers razed his home while he was still inside, said Palestinian medical and security sources.

Shortly after midnight, Israeli troops began shelling the area and shooting indiscriminately at the civilian population, witnesses told Aljazeera.net Gaza correspondent Laila el-Haddad.

People began to flee their homes, and shortly afterwards, bulldozers made their way into the camp. Khalaf Allah's family saw the bulldozers demolishing their neighbour's home, and went out to plead with occupation forces to stop.

"They came without warning people-they didn't give people a chance to leave. [Khalaf Allah's] wife and daughter told them to stop, that there was a disabled person in the house, but they didn't listen. They continued with their demolition while he was trapped inside," said Palestinian Centre for Human Rights field worker Yasir Abd al-Ghafur.

Link (http://english.aljazeera.net/NR/exeres/FB99DB4C-3DFC-4D08-8D1A-FA7C4C82A298.htm)

It's so true.

[Intifada]

"security fence"?! :blink:

biggest piece of crap i have ever heard.

[gummo]

english (http://english).aljazeera.net


Heh, your pathetic.

[Sabocat]

Are you saying that FoxNews is more credible than Al-Jazeera? Are you also saying that because Al-Jazeera reported this guy getting crushed that it didn't really happen?

Answer one question. Who has killed more people? The Israeli's or the Palestinians?

Heh, you're pathetic.

[Intifada]

what about this source? (http://www.alertnet.org/thenews/newsdesk/L12377161.htm)

we could give you lots more if you like?

[gummo]

Originally posted by [email protected] 14 2004, 08:52 PM
"security fence"?! :blink:

biggest piece of crap i have ever heard.
ihatebush is against anything that keeps homicide bombers from finding their targets.

[Sabocat]

Originally posted by [email protected] 14 2004, 03:57 PM
ihatebush is against anything that keeps homicide bombers from finding their targets.
How do you bomb a homicide?


OH.....you meant homicidal.

[gummo]

Originally posted by [email protected] 14 2004, 08:56 PM
what about this source? (http://www.alertnet.org/thenews/newsdesk/L12377161.htm)

we could give you lots more if you like?

The army said it had destroyed flimsy shacks and unfinished structures near the town of Khan Younis that it said were used to launch rocket and shooting attacks against soldiers and nearby Jewish settlements.

Are modern armies supposed to go door to door in hostile areas to look for old men?

[gummo]

Originally posted by [email protected] 14 2004, 08:59 PM
How do you bomb a homicide?


OH.....you meant homicidal.
No, I meant homicide bomber.

[Sabocat]

Of course you did.

[Intifada]

no, i'm against anything which violates human rights and international law.

how can you condone collective punishment of a whole civilian population, the seizing of private property by an occupying power, the demolition of houses and property, and the violation of such basic human rights as the right to work and freedom of movement?

the wall is a means of gradually occupying the rest of the palestinian's land, and furthers the zionist programme of ethnic cleansing.

the wall is simply illegal. you cannot argue against this fact.

[gummo]

Originally posted by [email protected] 14 2004, 09:03 PM
Of course you did.
How do you bomb a suicide?

[gummo]

Originally posted by [email protected] 14 2004, 09:04 PM
no, i'm against anything which violates human rights and international law.

how can you condone collective punishment of a whole civilian population, the seizing of private property by an occupying power, the demolition of houses and property, and the violation of such basic human rights as the right to work and freedom of movement?

the wall is a means of gradually occupying the rest of the palestinian's land, and furthers the zionist programme of ethnic cleansing.

the wall is simply illegal. you cannot argue against this fact.
How many post have you made decrying the murder of innocent Israelis?

[Intifada]

How many post have you made decrying the murder of innocent Israelis?

why should i? people like you do it for me.

and anyway suicide bombing will only stop when occupation and oppression stops.

[Intifada]

so true...

[gummo]

Originally posted by [email protected] 14 2004, 09:09 PM

why should i? people like you do it for me.

and anyway suicide bombing will only stop when occupation and oppression stops.
Delusional Sociopath.

[Intifada]

Delusional Sociopath.

nice rebuttal.



The army said it had destroyed flimsy shacks and unfinished structures near the town of Khan Younis that it said were used to launch rocket and shooting attacks against soldiers and nearby Jewish settlements.

why should we believe what the israeli military says?

Half-truths and double-talk (http://www.4mothers.org.il/tzahal/half.htm)

[gummo]

Originally posted by [email protected] 14 2004, 09:20 PM

nice rebuttal.



why should we believe what the israeli military says?

Half-truths and double-talk (http://www.4mothers.org.il/tzahal/half.htm)
It wasn't meant to be a rebuttal. I am just taking a guess at your mental state.


Your right, we shouldn't believe everything that they say. But you also shouldn't believe all of the anti Israeli crap you read. You don't even attempt to look at both sides. Your so focused on your hate towards Isreal that a fact could smack you in the head and you wouldn't know it, ie Delusional.

[Intifada]

But you also shouldn't believe all of the anti Israeli crap you read. You don't even attempt to look at both sides.

i do look at both sides and to be honest the zionists are the true terrorists.

how can you support an idea (zionism) that, as planned from the beginning, takes part in ethnic cleansing?

[insurgency03]

We always continuosly call palestineans terrorists.

well their are some palestineans who have commited acts of "terrorism"(usually forced to by deperation of poverty and a hope of a better afterlife than the living hell they encounter every day).

The fact is Israel was founded on religion, and religion always sinks its poisionous tendrils into society and corrupts the minds of the people. They have compulsory miliatary service(which is alos a technique czarist russia used) and their con tinued efforts are only to keep their hegamony in the reigion. Their is nothing proud or noble about the nation of Israel, their ruling Libuk party is no better than the Ba'aath party.

I support palestinean liberation all the way

Vive la intifadah!!!

[Guerrilla22]

Security fence no, APATHEID fence yes.

[The Sloth]

Originally posted by [email protected] 14 2004, 08:52 PM
"security fence"?! :blink:
Of course it's not a "security fence."

Try, "Annexation Fence."

[synthesis]

Glorious Israeli soldiers (http://free.freespeech.org/americanstateterrorism/palestine/IsraeliTerrorismPhotos.html)

Oh. Here's a snapshot of typical Zionist conduct. Enjoy :rolleyes:

The Israeli Army’s war-criminal assault on the people of Jenin lasted for 12 unspeakably horrible days and nights, during which Israeli soldiers shot at all ambulances that attempted to pick up the growing numbers of dead and wounded people. Not one person could be rescued in all that time. Those who were injured — civilian men, women and children — were left to die of their wounds, bleeding to death slowly where they fell if they were outside, within range of Israeli snipers. Anyone who attempted to carry the wounded person off the street was also shot by the snipers. In some cases Israeli tanks ran over the wounded people as they lay helplessly on the street — just to send a message. Letting the Palestinians know, in no uncertain terms, just what kind of creatures “The Chosen People” truly are.

If the wounded Palestinian people were lucky enough to be shot or hit by shrapnel while inside a building, out of reach of the tanks and snipers, they died among their grieving family members. In many cases people had to stay inside buildings for many days with the rotting corpses of their loved ones, because if they went outside the Israeli soldiers would shoot them.

When an Israeli attack helicopter fired a round through the wall of one house, it hit a 17-year-old Palestinian young man in the chest and ripped out of his back. His mother and brother were with him, and they called for an ambulance. When it arrived, Israeli soldiers shot at it, forcing it to go back. The young man was slowly bleeding to death, and by 10 o’clock that night his mother could stand it no longer. She ran out into the street screaming for help, and the Israeli soldiers shot her in the head.

Somehow somebody managed to get her body off the street without getting shot themselves, and her son had to spend the next two days and nights with the dead bodies of his mother and brother. This kind of thing happened to many people in the Jenin refugee camp.

Early in the morning on April 3, the first day of the assault, Israeli soldiers firing from within an occupied house shot a young Palestinian man in the leg as he stood at the front gate of his house. He fell and began screaming in pain, and when he tried to stand up and run back inside they shot him in the abdomen and chest. A Palestinian nurse and her sister in a nearby house heard his screams and ran out to try and help him. The Israeli soldiers shot the sister in the leg, and shot the nurse in the abdomen. Before the two women could drag themselves back to their house, Israeli soldiers shot the sister in the other leg, and murdered the nurse with a bullet through the heart.

On the evening of April 3, two old Palestinian men, one 85-years-old and the other 72, were sitting in a house when Israeli soldiers shot the door off and burst inside, shooting the 85-year-old man dead. The Israelis then pushed the 72-year-old man at gunpoint through the house as they searched it. Finding nobody else, they tied him to a chair with plastic tape and left him there for ten hours. The next morning they cut him loose and used the 72-year-old man as a human shield as they went from house to house looking for more people to kill.

Israeli soldiers often used Palestinian people as human shields. In one case the soldiers rested their rifles on the shoulders of a Palestinian man and his 14-year-old son and fired into the houses of other people.

On April 5, an Israeli sniper shot a 44-year-old Palestinian man as he stood in an upstairs room of his home. He was the father of four children, one of whom was dead, the young man who was murdered along with the nurse on April 3. The 44-year-old man’s wife and three remaining children heard him call for help after he was shot, and they all ran up to the room and saw him collapse, a gunshot wound to his head. The wife screamed outside for someone to call an ambulance, but when it arrived the Israeli soldiers shot at it, preventing the crew from rescuing the man. He died within an hour.

On the afternoon of April 5, Israeli soldiers attached a bomb to a Palestinian house, then called on the people inside to come to the door. When a woman opened the door the bomb exploded, killing her. While her sisters and others screamed in futility for an ambulance, the Israeli soldiers were laughing because the bloody face of the woman they’d just murdered was horribly disfigured by the blast.

On April 6, a 37-year-old disabled Palestinian man was in his house when an Israeli soldier in a huge armored bulldozer began to destroy it. The disabled man had been unable all his life to speak, eat or move without help, and his mother and sister ran outside and begged the soldier to stop just long enough for them to get the helpless man out. The Israeli soldier called them “*****es” and bulldozed the house down on top of the disabled man, burying him alive. His mother and sister were unable to find him in the next few days. His dead body was finally recovered from the rubble, fifteen days later.

On April 10, a 57-year old Palestinian man who was confined to a wheelchair was rolling down a road in the refugee camp when he came upon an Israeli tank. The Israelis shot him, and then just for good measure they ran over him with their tank, crushing him and his wheelchair flat.

All during the massacre at the Jenin refugee camp, the Israelis kept the entire city of Jenin, which is next to the camp, under complete curfew for eight days. On the morning of April 11, the Israelis told the people of Jenin city that the curfew would be lifted for a few hours, allowing them to get food. Two Palestinian boys, aged 8 and 14, were walking with a group of Palestinian women to a nearby grocery store when they saw an Israeli tank in the middle of a road about 220 feet away. The tank turned toward the group and without warning began to fire. The 14-year-old boy was hit, and he died on the street. The 8-year-old boy and the women survived and carried their friend’s body to a car.

During the first week of the Jenin massacre there was a sporadic but determined resistance from the relatively small number of Palestinian fighters who were there. They were truly courageous men, armed with nothing but rifles and small explosives, totally outnumbered and outgunned, fighting a powerful military armed with tanks and helicopter gunships and all the latest technology, paid for by American taxpayers. The Palestinian fighters were rightfully defending themselves, their families, their wives and children, their mothers, fathers and grandparents against the murderous, criminal assault by the viciously racist Israeli state terrorists.

On April 9, the Palestinian fighters managed to ambush a group of the Israeli war criminals, killing 13 of them. Predictably, after the ambush the stinking Israeli soldiers became even more brutal than before, killing anybody and everybody they could get in their sights. The helpless Palestinian man in the wheelchair was shot and run over by the Israeli tank the next day, no doubt for revenge.

[RedCeltic]

Odd that they call it a wall for "Security"... what other such wall was built in recent times that was for "Security"?.... Remember East Berlin Anyone?...

[Daniel Karssenberg]

However I am against this fence. It IS a security fence, it DECREASED violent actions thus securing many Israelis from being attacked or murdered...
But this wall is redicules, it is cutting of humans from facilities like schools or hospitals.

Though, you must agree that Israel did a great job on finally defeating China with their monopoly thanks to the Chinese wall :S

[Guerrilla22]

Originally posted by Daniel [email protected] 15 2004, 10:27 AM
However I am against this fence. It IS a security fence, it DECREASED violent actions thus securing many Israelis from being attacked or murdered...
But this wall is redicules, it is cutting of humans from facilities like schools or hospitals.

Though, you must agree that Israel did a great job on finally defeating China with their monopoly thanks to the Chinese wall :S
Yes, but ensuring your security by caging in and oppressing another population is against the principles of humanity.

[Daniel Karssenberg]

Originally posted by [email protected] 15 2004, 11:50 AM
Yes, but ensuring your security by caging in and oppressing another population is against the principles of humanity.
Exactly...

What the Israeli's fail to realise is that this will only bring more anger under the Palestinians, it by any means does not improve their lives. The fence merely avoids problems rather than solving them.

[Intifada]

if israel was building this wall for security purposes, then the wall would be built inside israel and the internationally recognised border. such a wall would not be a violation of international law or human rights.

the wall in it's present shape is a form of land-grabbing.

[Professor Moneybags]

Originally posted by [email protected] 14 2004, 11:46 PM
well their are some palestineans who have commited acts of "terrorism"(usually forced to by deperation of poverty and a hope of a better afterlife than the living hell they encounter every day).
If that's the case, then why don't they just commit suicide and not go running into a group of people whom they percieve as "the enemy" with a bomb strapped to them ? Oh no, it's not "poverty" or "desperation" that drives them to it, my boy, it's hate and racism.


The fact is Israel was founded on religion, and religion always sinks its poisionous tendrils into society and corrupts the minds of the people.

Erm...Is this a claim that Israelis are more religiously inclined that the Palestinians ? So why aren't there fanatic Israelis strapping bombs to themselves and blowing up Palestinians in order to get into paradise ?

[ÑóẊîöʼn]

I'm going to upset a lot of people, but...

Fuck the 'Holy' Land.

Fuck Isreal and their American partners in crime.

Fuck the Palestinians and their suicide bombers.

Fuck the Arabs for egging on the Palestinians.

It has seen more evil and slaughter than the rest of the world combined, I reckon.

Will the madness ever end?

[Intifada]

suicide bombers are as bad as the israeli soldiers and politicians who are enforcing the illegal occupation and killing innocent palestinians by doing so.

suicide bombings are just as sick and cowardly as using apaches to kill.

it is easy for us to say that suicide bombings are not the answer. however, we do not know what ordinary palestinians have to live through. we do not experience the kind of barbarity a palestinian child may see everyday.

suicide bombings are wrong. it is that simple. i believe, however, that it is understandable, considering the lives that these people have to live. they are desperate.

suicide bombings are a relatively new thing that some palestinians have taken up. i believe the first one was in 1994. for many years the palestinians have tried to work through the international community to end israeli occupation, but to no avail. there were no suicide bombings before the oslo. it is the result of despair and hopelessness that started to set in when an increasing number of alestinians became frustrated by the deepening israeli oppression and humiliation.

and the argument that only muslims have taken up suicide bombings is wrong. for example the first female suicide bomber in lebanon, during the 80s, was a christian.

if israeli politicians remain ignorant of the causes of terrorism, and carry on as they have before, there will, unfortunately, be more palestinians resorting to suicide bombings. to combat a single-minded and ruthless fanaticism by becoming equally fanatical and ruthless, will never further the cause of "justice" or "peace". it will only deepen and prolong the vicious cycle of violence.

[Danton]

Originally posted by [email protected] 15 2004, 02:53 PM
suicide bombings are just as sick and cowardly as using apaches to kill.


I disagree, suicide bombers are anything but cowardly. They are using the only means they have to defend their territory, if they had helicopters they'd use them obviously.

[cubist]

whilst i agree with danton that it is not an act of cowardice, i feel that the acts of suicide bombers can not be condoned by those who consider themseleves of a leftist orientation.

To condone mercyless killings of innocent jewish people is a bad as supporting the actions of the isreals governments actions in Gaza,

the slaughtering of the working class is not an action that can be condoned by a leftist, the bourgoisie is a different matter if the targets of the hesbola were bourgoise influences in the isreali government and were assasinated with out injury to the members of the working class i would have no quarm with there actions unfortunately they do not do this and the continue to take action which damages the wrong people,

[gummo]

Originally posted by [email protected] 15 2004, 01:52 AM
Glorious Israeli soldiers (http://free.freespeech.org/americanstateterrorism/palestine/IsraeliTerrorismPhotos.html)

I would like to see the snapshot you mention. Please find me a picture of an Israeli soldier using a Palestinian as a human shield.

[LuZhiming]

Originally posted by Professor [email protected] 15 2004, 02:24 PM
If that's the case, then why don't they just commit suicide and not go running into a group of people whom they percieve as "the enemy" with a bomb strapped to them ? Oh no, it's not "poverty" or "desperation" that drives them to it, my boy, it's hate and racism.
Do you know how stupid that sounds? Native Americans resisted genocide by the colonists very brutally, they killed plenty of women and children, does that mean they did it because of hate and racism? No, they chose a particularly ruthless and easy way to resist the colonists. It's the same with the Palestinian suicide bombers in general, the motivation has nothing to do with extremism or racism, it's simply the method of using terrorism to stop the occupation. Furthermore, you're simply wrong in saying poverty doesn't have a role in it, as you probably know, one of the ways Hamas bribes people to commit suicide attacks is to promise to aid and protect the suicide bomber's family, that's simply a fact. :rolleyes:

[synthesis]

Originally posted by [email protected] 15 2004, 10:19 AM
I would like to see the snapshot you mention. Please find me a picture of an Israeli soldier using a Palestinian as a human shield.
I was using 'snapshot' as a metaphor for the Jenin massacre.

[Intifada]

I disagree, suicide bombers are anything but cowardly. They are using the only means they have to defend their territory, if they had helicopters they'd use them obviously.

perhaps i put it wrongly. i meant that targeting innocents is cowardly.

but i do agree with you when you say that if they had other means of fighting they would use them.


I would like to see the snapshot you mention. Please find me a picture of an Israeli soldier using a Palestinian as a human shield.

israel uses human shields (http://www.hrw.org/press/2002/04/israel041802.htm)

www.hrw.org/reports/2002/israel3/israel0502.pdf+israel+must+stop+using+civilians+as +human+shield&hl=en]read (http://66.102.9.104/search?q=cache:d0HaaxCrPxkJ:[url) page 29 of this report[/url]

another HRW report (http://hrw.org/reports/2002/israel3/israel0502-06.htm#P604_103426)

[Daniel Karssenberg]

The biggest problem is not the culture, it are the ones ruling the Israelis and Palestinians who set them up against eachother.

[CubanFox]

Originally posted by [email protected] 15 2004, 07:12 AM
so true...
Sorry to be a twat, but that picture is based on a Nazi propaganda poster.

To be honest, the whole "security fence" harkens back to another Mauer...

http://en.wikipedia.org/upload/c/ce/Berlin-wall2.jpg

Can't solve your problems properly? Then why not just turn your country into a big prison?

[Y2A]

Originally posted by [email protected] 14 2004, 11:46 PM
The fact is Israel was founded on religion, and religion always sinks its poisionous tendrils into society and corrupts the minds of the people. They have compulsory miliatary service(which is alos a technique czarist russia used) and their con tinued efforts are only to keep their hegamony in the reigion. Their is nothing proud or noble about the nation of Israel, their ruling Libuk party is no better than the Ba'aath party.

I support palestinean liberation all the way

Vive la intifadah!!!
The hypocracy here blows my mind. As if Islamic theocracy is no different then a Jewish one(even if it is one which is very questionable). Why don't you face the fact that you are a hypocrite?

[Intifada]

Sorry to be a twat, but that picture is based on a Nazi propaganda poster.



i got it from here. (http://gush-shalom.org/thewall/)