Eastern Europeans'

[__ca va?]

I thought I'd make a topic for/about Eastern Europeans on Che-lives community, because on one hand I'm curious to know how many people here are from EE and who they are. On the other hand it's only us who have real experience about communism, and could share this with the 'westerns' :)
So come here all my homies, from Macedonia to Estonia, from Belarus to Croatia! Unite! :hammer:

[Jesus Christ]

i dont think youll find too many here comrade

[apathy maybe]

When (if) you join the CC you will notice a sub-forum called Network (or something along those lines). This is the place for this thread.

However, I have to agree with the above poster, I don't you will find too many people from East Europe or even Europe (except the UK and Ireland).

[Comrade Mathew]

there are some people from germany here... (as myself)

[__ca va?]

Well, I agree that they are hard to find, but I made this topic, so they can find eachother easily. There are not too many of them, but I've seen a Macedonian and a Croatian already, and I myself am from Hungary, so why not? :)

[__ca va?]

When (if) you join the CC you will notice a sub-forum called Network (or something along those lines). This is the place for this thread.

Ok, but I'm not a CC member (if that's for Commie Club), and among the topics like "Politics", "Opposing Ideologies", "History" etc. I found this one the most suitable.

[socialistfuture]

I am not from eastern europe, i am quite intrested in it tho. im reading a new internationalist 'life after communism' seems democracy aint happenin in a lot of the former solviet republics. IMF, world bank loans, policies and works are creatng enviromental and financial nightmares. oligarchies have a lot of power in certain areas and many elections are rigged.

the challenge for sum in the 'the new left' is breaking from the old autocratic state communist style and growing in size. of cause for many they are against communism because of the poverty and reppression of the former regimes. i know a man from the czech republic who totally hates communism.

i also have a freind from bosnia who is a socialist, his dad was in the communist party there. he views tito diferently to some modern western lefties. anyway the point is the left in eastern europe is still alive and in need of oxygen.

i would be intrested in hearing people from eastern europes tales of communism and the movements today.




ever onward to victory!!!

[__ca va?]

Uh, I don't really know anything about the former soviet republics, only about the western countries of the former socialist block


IMF, world bank loans, policies and works are creating enviromental and financial nightmares. oligarchies have a lot of power in certain areas and many elections are rigged.


These are the conditions in Belarus, Ukraine and Moldova (and Russia of course), and maybe Romania. The eastern-central european countries (we like to call ourselves this way :D ) were always more developed than the others to the east, so saving the economy was not too hard. (Even though it took 10 years)

World Bank loans are mostly paid back, I don't know about environmental or financial nightmares (though in Hungary the government had to make really tough steps to stabilize the economy in the early 90's)

Oligarchs can also be a problem in the east and in the baltic states. There are no oligarchs nor rigged elections in the western region, maybe in the east.


the challenge for sum in the 'the new left' is breaking from the old autocratic state communist style and growing in size. of cause for many they are against communism because of the poverty and reppression of the former regimes. i know a man from the czech republic who totally hates communism.


Sorry I don't really understand the 1st sentence.

Yes indeed, there are many people against communism, but you can find some who want it back! Anyway, although the economy was "basket case" the poor had a better life.

I will only talk about Hungarian conditions because I know those well:
There were two things that were prohibited to talk about:
1)the revolution of 1956
2)the Russian troops garrisoning in Hungary

If you avoided speaking about these you could live an adequate life: you could have your flat, your car, your villa at the lakeside, you could be more or less independent of the state. Homeless people were given shelters, everyone had a job (the problem with this was that there were 5 men to do 1 man's job with 1 man's equipment. Describing the morale of the Hungarian workers: one line of bricks, one bottle of beer :D )
There were no executions out of political reasons after 1963.

I must also admit that in other satellite states life was much worse.


i also have a freind from bosnia who is a socialist, his dad was in the communist party there. he views tito diferently to some modern western lefties. anyway the point is the left in eastern europe is still alive and in need of oxygen.

Yugoslavia was different: they had no garrisoned Russian troops and they elected Tito by themselves instead of the other states where elections had been rigged. In fact it was only Tito who held Yugoslavia together: his past (he was a partisan and he liberated Croatia, Serbia etc.) gave him great respect among the people.

[Reuben]

i think i count - out of 8 great grandparents all 8 of them were jews from the Russian empire

[enigma2517]

I was born and lived in Moscow, Russia for awhile. Pretty much as far eastern europe as you can get.

After the collapse of the Soviet Union my country suffered through enormous problems, such as homelessness, unemployment, and a widespread blackmarket/drug/prostitution dilema.

Democracy is a real burden as well. For over a thousand years the Slavic people remained under autocratic rule. Now, emerging from the USSR the Russian people are only seraching for stabililty in this huge economic recession. Thats why Putin won by a landslide (almost 80%?). There are few partisan politics.

On the bright side, my father tells me that this is simply the result of an extended recession and that in another 10 or 20 years things may start to get better and people will start enjoy a living standard equal to or better than the one of the Soviet Union. However they're still going to be capitalist pigs ;).

Its interesting what is happening now in the former satelite nations. Before we considered them to be almost a sort of minority, and provided generous funding to raise the standard of living. Some even got preffered status when it came to distributing products (or they were provided a discount). Nowadays if you are a Russian living in Ukraine you have to pay several times more for bread than a Ukranian would. Kind of sad :unsure:

Hope that helps paint a clearer picture tho.

[__ca va?]

After the collapse of the Soviet Union my country suffered through enormous problems, such as homelessness, unemployment, and a widespread blackmarket/drug/prostitution dilema.


These are the problems all Eastern European country has to face, and not oligarchs and rigged elections! I think these are common in Eastern Europe. :(


Democracy is a real burden as well. For over a thousand years the Slavic people remained under autocratic rule. Now, emerging from the USSR the Russian people are only seraching for stabililty in this huge economic recession. Thats why Putin won by a landslide (almost 80%?). There are few partisan politics.

Changing to democracy is hard. And where it doesn't have a long past it's even harder.


On the bright side, my father tells me that this is simply the result of an extended recession and that in another 10 or 20 years things may start to get better and people will start enjoy a living standard equal to or better than the one of the Soviet Union. However they're still going to be capitalist pigs .

In the present Russia has the biggest growth rate of the economy, so I think your father is right. In 10-20 years things will be stabilized ;)


Its interesting what is happening now in the former satelite nations. Before we considered them to be almost a sort of minority, and provided generous funding to raise the standard of living. Some even got preffered status when it came to distributing products (or they were provided a discount). Nowadays if you are a Russian living in Ukraine you have to pay several times more for bread than a Ukranian would. Kind of sad


If it's true it's really sad. I heard that in Estonia there is a huge Russian minority and they have a rough life :( . On the other hand this is easy to understand, Russia annexed the Baltic states!

But I also read somewhere that the government policies of Belarus are always linking B. closer to Russia! It seems like they are trying to unite with Russia again !!(okay, not in the near future of course)
:hammer:

[kami888]

I'm from Azerbaijan, it's not considered Europe though, but it's one of the former soviet republics. After collapse of USSR everything dropped there, living standards, literacy, culture level, and everything else. In one phrase: IT SUCKS.
Ethnically I'm Russian and like most of Russians have to get out of there as quickly as possible. More and more uneducated people arrive to the capital from the regions, more and more Russian schools are being closed, so basically: I have no future there. Either I will be got by corruption (one guy already almost put me in prison without ANY proof), or by the army (those who get in Azeri army degradate to the status of... umm... dunno how to say it, there are no such people living in the West anyway).

About the country itself, well, the oligarchs are taking over. Democracy is being turned into constitutional monarchy. The living standards are getting better mostly because the place is rich of oil. In the international politics, I would consider Azerbaijan to be one of the hundreds of American satellites.

Byelorussia has an alliance with Russia and IS officially going to unite with Russia after a certain period of time (not sure how much). Almost ALL the other former Soviet republics and satellites (even Ukraine!) hate Russia ENORMOUSLY; sometimes the russofobia is being turned into full-scale racism.

After all, the fact that Russia still possesses the large amount of nuclear weapons greatly annoys western nations, and if you know Russian, you might wanna take a look at the political section of www.flashpoint.ru forum, where the people are already designing military plans on how to defend themselves in case NATO forces will invade Russia in near future. It's a joke of course. As long as the "axis of evil" exists, Russia is not in the sight of American politicians. However, in spite of what you are told by the news, the tensions are still quite big.

That's probably all i can say =/


edit: just saw a funny public survey on "russian" TV about who is more popular in Russia.

1st place: Pop-stars (Zemfira, Ruki Vverh, tatu, ivanushki international, other crap)
2nd place: Oligarchs (Lujkov, Berezovsky, Gusinsky, other bastards)
3rd place: Movie stars (can&#39;t think of any now <_< )
4th place: President (Putin)
5th places: Revolutionires (CPRF, Rodina, etc)

I don&#39;t think this is something serious, but just fun.
In case you care, my prioity scale would exactly opposite to this, revolutionires on top, and pop sars on the very very bottom. :lol:

BTW, socialism in former USSR (in Russia at least) is very much alive (Ever watched the pro-GDR movie: "Good Bye Lenin?". Basically that&#39;s why).

[Conscript1959]

I am from Armenia

[kami888]

HEY COMERAD (< comrade)&#33;
I know you hate me because i am from Azerbaijan, but believe me, i hate my own motherland as much as you do :unsure:

[Kez]

My ethnicity is Armenian.

Im in Armenia right now on holiday :)

Good to see Armenians and Azeris proving Bourgeoise analysts wrong that we dont get along.

I might actually be going to Karabagh next week.

What are your views on the conflict?

Kami888, if any Armenian was a communist, then they would never hate you because your an azeri, what is needed is a new transcaucasian revolution, what is the communist party in Azerbaijan like?

[kami888]

Not sure if it exists, i&#39;ve never actually checked. Even if it exists, it&#39;s probably a 10 person band :D. Not even talking about regions, just about capital, the ignorance is soo high, and the morality is soo low, that most of the adult people don&#39;t even care what communism/capitalism is. I&#39;m going to the capital next summer, maybe gonna check if there&#39;s something like communist party. <_<

My view on the conflict? Well, counting that i&#39;m not really a big azeri patriot, i don&#39;t really care who Karabagh belongs to :D . By the way, those separatists everywhere are getting so annoying, i would more enjoy having a united transcaucasian republic, like it was in the first years of the former USSR.

[PRC-UTE]

I&#39;m not from Eastern Europe but have roots there. My grandparents were from Prague in what is now the Czech Rep. Great place, Prague is the Paris of the slavic countries.

[RedAnarchist]

Hi,
I&#39;m English/Irish/Welsh as far as i know, but in my region of England (North West) some Lithuanian Catholics immigrated here. My dads family are Catholics and may have some Lithuanian blood in them.

[Kez]

Kami, check out the CP, the CP here is 50,000 strong, probably mostly old shits but still.

what was your mayday like?

[Reuben]

nice to get some news from armadilloland

[kami888]

check out the CP
CPs are mostly stalinists. Moreover it is very hard to convince them of anything that goes against their ideology.


what was your mayday like?
Mayday is celebrated in russian federation. In azerbaijan it&#39;s a regular working day.

[__ca va?]

Hi all&#33;


Good to see Armenians and Azeris proving Bourgeoise analysts wrong that we dont get along.


Of course&#33; As far as I&#39;m concerned people are more divided by class than by nationality&#33; (Thanks for the expression for politicalcompass.org :D :D :D )

Fierce nationalism is a poison or drug that takes away the peoples&#39; consciousness&#33;
Nationalism is a big problem in Hungary, as well as anti-semitism. But this happened in all Eastern countries after the change of regime :(
It was somewhat peaceful in some places (Czech Republic, Poland, Hungary etc.) or rather violent in others (Yugoslavia, Armenia and Azerbaijan etc.)

But it&#39;s our duty to create peace&#33; Unite&#33;
:hammer:

[Lietuva]

Lithuania here, there aren&#39;t too many of us. Let me tell ya, best cheese in the world though&#33;

[__ca va?]

Lithuania here, there aren&#39;t too many of us. Let me tell ya, best cheese in the world though&#33;

And we&#39;ve got the best wine :D So if you ever come to Hungary bring some cheese and I&#39;ll bring you some wine :D &#33;

I&#39;m really happy to see that you&#39;re communist despite the decades of Soviet occupation&#33; What was it like in Lithuania in those years?

And now that we&#39;ve joined the EU: what do you think, is it a step towards communism? Ok, it sounds stupid but I mean no borders, freedom guaranteed, living standards rise and other things... I&#39;m really pro-EU&#33;
And it is a "giant leap" towards internationalism too&#33;

Ever onwards to victory&#33;

[Lietuva]

Exactly&#33; Pro EU&#33;

I think the main reason that the former Eastern Bloc joined the EU and NATO is for 2 main reasons.

1. They fear a resurgence in a Soviet State due to the poor economic situation in Russia

2. For financial reasons, they will get a hell of a lot more money in aid now and none of these countries is well off.

I know Lithuanians here in Cleveland had a celebration that day that it became part of NATO and the EU.

[__ca va?]

1. They fear a resurgence in a Soviet State due to the poor economic situation in Russia

I don&#39;t think that&#39;s likely... But the US benefited a lot on this because it&#39;s their interest to prevent another USSR to emerge. And by having all the former (sattelite) states joined the NATO (I&#39;m sure my grammar is not correct... <_< )
Russia has no territory to annex/spread influence on.


2. For financial reasons, they will get a hell of a lot more money in aid now and none of these countries is well off.

Not everywhere.. the dumbass Hungarian government can&#39;t even get the money that&#39;s promised because they are too weakling to fill in the forms to claim it&#33;&#33; And of course we don&#39;t even dream about extra money... the Poles can have all the extra money because they are clever enough to get it, the Czech always beat us in tourism (Prague easily beats Budapest) and economy, and Slovakia is starting to take all our investors&#33; Even newcome industries move to Slovakia&#33; It seems like the Baltic states can also get more funds, plus Estonia is starting to build out its microtechnics industry. (that we wanted to, actually <_< )

What we got is unrest, because there are mainly two parties in Hungary:
the
Alliance of Young Democrats (Fidesz): (which is an autoritarian party, the typical kind where the leader has a party and not the party a leader...) they are not young, and not democratic: in fact they can be called bolsheviks and fierce nationalists too, because they want state ownership of the companies. But they do all this in a nationalist way: they declare Hungarians the "übermensch" of the region, and want autonomy for Transylvania (that was 80 years ago Hungarian, and still many H. live there) which angers Romania (though it wouldn&#39;t be bad, if it could be achieved in a civilised way). So while they were governing all our neighbours were mad at us... They divided the people by organizing fascist-style "jamborees" with torches and all the stuff... But what about the party that&#39;s governing now? They are.......

the Hungarian Socialist Party (MSZP): of course they are not socialists. As a matter of fact they don&#39;t care about the poor, the homeless, in fact social inequality is growing :(. They do nothing that a socialist party is expected to do. They haven&#39;t even got an ideology People don&#39;t vote for them. In fact they vote against Fidesz. That&#39;s why they&#39;re in power. The Socialist Party&#39;s members are disaccording and impotent, the party is chaotic. It is conducted by a former communist-era politician. They lose popularity at a high rate. Polls show that if elections were held now, Fidesz would win by 20%&#33;&#33; This fall, they are having a congress, where the party leadership is to be changed. Many consider this the last chance of the MSZP to reform, otherwise it will be too late...

There is a liberal party, the Alliance of Free Democrats (SZDSZ) but they could hardly even get into the Parliament... They recieve around 5% on the elections.. I think they are still the bests to choose, well at least the least bad... ;)

So this is the situation in Hungary

[Lietuva]

Wow I had no idea the situation in Hungary was so bad. Naturally I knew all of Eastern Europe was in shambles but I thought Hungary wasn&#39;t doing so bad.

Lithuania isn&#39;t doing so great politically either. The former president was actually part of the mafia, so needless to say he was impeached. There is now a temporary president until the next elections which are this fall I think. The Seimas (basically Lithuanian parliament) is full of corruption. Little has changed since perestroika except that instead of the Russians pulling the strings its the mafia, and you could say the economy is actually worse. Plus its birth rate is -.33%, which sucks.

[__ca va?]

Ok, the situation here is not so bad, maybe I wrote these things with a huge amount of Hungarian pessimism :D

Though the political situation is messy, the economy is doing quite fine, because it is mainly based on the agriculture and not on tourism and industries (in which the Czechs beat us and the Slovaks want to beat us). In fact, if the Baltic states aren&#39;t doing so well, Hungary&#39;s the 3rd best place of the 10 new EU members, with the places like this:
1.Slovenia
2.Czech Republic
3.Hungary

And luckily only around 20% (still too much) of the people are mindless zombies who leave their friends because of politics.
So the economy is good, Budapest is becoming better and better all the time, with old buildings being renovated and the streets becoming cleaner and tidyer.

And to be optimistic in politics:
The Socialist Party is having this congress this fall, and with a change of generation in the leadership and with finding ideology it could easily beat Fidesz :D And they&#39;ve governed for 2 years now and corrected our affaires with the sorrounding countries, because they are really good in one thing and it is foreign affairs.
Fidesz and its "Wise Leader" can&#39;t make any kind of a dictature or can&#39;t declare war on Romania for example, because the NATO and the EU wouldn&#39;t let it.
Even if the socialists failed, leftists could still vote on the small Liberal Party, so we&#39;re not lost :)

So if you want to know the real situation in Hungary, mix these two posts :)

[__ca va?]

Lithuania isn&#39;t doing so great politically either. The former president was actually part of the mafia, so needless to say he was impeached. There is now a temporary president until the next elections which are this fall I think. The Seimas (basically Lithuanian parliament) is full of corruption. Little has changed since perestroika except that instead of the Russians pulling the strings its the mafia, and you could say the economy is actually worse. Plus its birth rate is -.33%, which sucks.

Wow&#33; It&#39;s not a too good thing when the mafia controls the country... I&#39;ve heard of this case somewhere. But at least he was impreached&#33; Corruption is a problem in all Eastern European states... we here in Hungary managed to cut back on corruption in the mid 90&#39;s but there is still much to do. About the economy: economy is worse in many post communist countries, for example in Russia than it was before the perestroika. -33%?? Thats really much&#33; But remember you can do much for the cause&#33; ;) ;)
Birth rates are not too good here either, but what is even worse, is that we are among the leaders of cancer and suicide statistics :( I&#39;ve read that the Baltic states also have bad suicide statistics. Is that true?

[Lietuva]

I&#39;m not too sure, I don&#39;t live there now, I just read the newspapers online. I know basically all of the baltic states are full of sex, corruption, and poverty. I just found out today that Vilnius mayor Zuonas, a very prominent political figure, is going to trial for corruption. Estonia is having a typically bad struggle with the Russian minorities in their country over what languages should be spoken. All of the baltic states are trying to reclaim their languages and traditions that were suppressed by the soviets. Latvia is changing its street signs into Latvian finally. Lithuania is even going as far as to deny Russians access to Kaliningrad through the country.

The reason the birth rates are negative in these countries is because simply more people are dieing than are being born. No one can afford to have children.

[CubanFox]

Hungary has, as far as I am aware, banned public display of the hammer and sickle and red stars. Most curious.

[__ca va?]

Hungary has, as far as I am aware, banned public display of the hammer and sickle and red stars. Most curious.

Yes, it has. These are considered "symbols of autocracy" along with swastikas, arrow-crosses and SS emblems.
The problem is that when somebody wants the hammer and sickle and the red star to be legelized, they say fascist symbols must be also legalized then. Because if we say that the red star was created by leftist movements, therefor it wasn&#39;t made to be a symbol of dictature, we must also admit that the swastika has also got a peaceful origin. (It&#39;s a religious symbol in India)

Of course we all know that the red star and the :hammer: are originated from Europe thus they are not only symbols of Soviet autocracy but symbols of leftist people around the world. They were created in Europe, and they have many links
to the European culture.

The swastika, instead, has no link to European culture but the Nazis. It were the Nazis who brought it to Europe, and it was not a part of the culture like the red star was. Of course banning it in India would be foolish, but banning it in Europe is easy to understand.

But I don&#39;t find it curious that communist symbols have been banned, because at the fall of the communist regime, (with 40 years of "communist" dictature, 10 years of it Stalinist, and a revolution beaten down) banning these was logical.
People only saw the red star on Soviet tanks or in the coat os arms of the 50&#39;s that was cut out of the fllag in the revolution. We need time to become reconciled with all these.

[che118]

Well I was born in Australia but my parents are from Macedonia and Russia, I also have family living in Bulgaria,Serbia,Uzbekistan,Ukraine.Croatia.

Let me tell you now all countries particularly Macedonia are in ruins, there is no health system for the lower classes yet the rich have access to world class hospitals. Government corruption is at an all time high and they have sided with the politics of the USA, worst of all the people support these politics


hmm Oh well

[Karl Marx's Camel]

On the other hand it&#39;s only us who have real experience about communism

False.

It is neither socialism nor "communism" they have experienced.

[Nothing Human Is Alien]

What was it then, a version of capitalism that was thoroughly hated by imperialist countries and 1,000 times better for workers than the current variety??

[Karl Marx's Camel]

Do you CDL claim that Eastern Europe before 1991 was socialist?

[apathy maybe]

Meh, I have a feeling this thread should be moved to either Introductions or Shit Chat.

And che118, be sure to check out the Aus/NZ thread < http://www.revleft.com/index.php?showtopic=36477 >, I&#39;m sure you could find someone near you if your interested. (Well maybe, a lot of folk don&#39;t post so much ...)