Collectivization without hang ups

[Guerrilla22]

I'm sure I don't have to tell anyone on this board that in order to achieve a communist state, the state must first be transformed into a socialist state. In order for a state to be transformed into a socialist state, the state must in engage in collectivization, the process of nationalizing business and property.

Needless to say, the process of collectivization as carried out in the Soviet Union by Stalin had numerous hang ups and challenges as the econoy broke down, the implementation of collectivization by Mao, also led to devastation. Similar incidents happened all over Eastern Europe and in Cuba as well.

Was the problem that the implementation of collectivization in these states done too rapidly, not allowing their nation's economy to adjust to the new structure, or were other mistakes to blame for these mishapas? In the future, if another socialist state does come about, how can this state implement collectivization without running into the problems that its Socialist predecessors did?

[ComradeRed]

Was the problem that the implementation of collectivization in these states done too rapidly, No, not really.


not allowing their nation's economy to adjust to the new structure, or were other mistakes to blame for these mishapas? Its because a small portion of the elite decided for everyone else, which resulted in inefficiency and shortages.


In the future, if another socialist state does come about, how can this state implement collectivization without running into the problems that its Socialist predecessors did? Right now, I am thinking that if there will be another socialist state, it won't be a "lone socialist state" like the USSR. It would be the begining of the revolution.

[Faceless]

I'm sure I don't have to tell anyone on this board that in order to achieve a communist state, the state must first be transformed into a socialist state. In order for a state to be transformed into a socialist state, the state must in engage in collectivization, the process of nationalizing business and property.
I think nationalize is just the problem here. Capitalism takes production to the global scale and internationalization is more appropriate. Previous revolutions were in isolation and nationalization was the order of the day. It is reactionary in the extreme to break up large corporations in favour of a national business. But their was no alternative really in Soviet Russia. They also had the problem of fighting the Whites and thus peasants who invested their interests in the Whites also.

The peasantry itself is a reactionary class for the large part but rather the agricultural proletariat should be the element to take on this fight. Russia was not ready although Cuba could be said to have had something more of an agricultural proletriat. But then Cuba was yet another revolution in isolation.

[The Feral Underclass]

Originally posted by [email protected] 11 2004, 04:11 AM
I'm sure I don't have to tell anyone on this board that in order to achieve a communist state, the state must first be transformed into a socialist state.
Communist state is an oxymoron. The final stage of the transition from a socialist state is a communist society, which is stateless.

[Guerrilla22]

Leave it up to the anarchist to point that out. I didn't necessisarily mean a state with a communist government, I meant a state, in which communism is present.

[DaCuBaN]

a 'state' referring to a locality; region - you get the picture.

[The Feral Underclass]

No! A state is not a locality..

Do you mean a state as in "state of mind"?

[DaCuBaN]

The point being made is that it was a poor choice of words. The poster has acknowledged that a communist state is indeed an oxymoron, but in our limited language it is often easier to call it such to 'keep things simple'.


Do you mean a state as in "state of mind"?

Perhaps 'state of affairs' would fit, but I think it was just a bad choice of words - we all do it.

[Raisa]

He obviously meant a state like a situation.
"I dont like to talk to you when youre in such a pedantic state!"

[Guerrilla22]

Fine, I'll use the term geographical area which has a communist economy.