I figured it out!

[encore]

Okay, I've been mulling it over for a while and I think I finally figured out how to make the true, transcendent, communist society a reality, IN OUR LIFETIME!

Here's my reasoning. Marx, in the Communist Manifesto, put forth the idea of the the "Class struggle" by which he meant the seemingly endless conflict between the Labor class and the Capital class (As I'm sure most of you are already familiar with). The idea being that both classes cannot exist without eachother, but cannot coexist together either. This system obviously cannot continue with any degree of stability, and therefore it must fall and in its place a more efficient methodology would rise. The downfall would be brought about by the extreme polarization of the classes, and the revolution would occur. Afterwards the perfect communist society would emerge, yadda yadda, you know the rest.

Here is how we can make this REAL!

All we have to do is start businesses, or inherit them, and conquer the capital class. When this has been done, we must crush the labor clas with intesive work and poor wages. The harder we crush, the faster communism comes to frution.

Who's with me!!??

[STI]

I really hope you're joking. :unsure:

[DaCuBaN]

Same. The point is valid, but I perceive it to be entirely unethical. Means to an end gone too far.

[Cheech06]

Dont know what the hell ur tryin to say.. :blink: Who's with me!!!

[Archpremier]

Sorry, no go. I realize that you are going for the eventual good, but it won't be worth it. First of all:

... conquer the capital class.
Yeah... sure. To do this we would have to become frighteningly skilled in the realm of capitalism. Either that, or employ the help of already well-established cappie bastards, which we would not get, as they would realize that helping us would bring about their own downfall. If people were so willing to act in this manner, this thread would not exist, as would be living in a world-wide commune already.

Secondly, this would bring about anti-capitalist revolution (maybe), but not necessarily communism. If you were going to make an at-the-reigns attempt to bring down capitalism, it would be better to create an all encompassing corporation, and then distribute the stock equally world-wide, and then taking the stock off the market. Ta-da! A democratic economic system! But even then there would be much work to be done.

Also, this 'please revolt' ideology may damage the reputation of communism, making people shy away from it. After all, "You are the ones we revolted against!"

And

... IN OUR LIFETIME!
Creating a kamikaze super-corporation would take A LOT OF TIME! Unless we were able to monopolize something of our own invention. Even at that, we would be subject to the dangers of the investors (taking a loan or selling stock would be necessary, we would not get a grant).

Oh yeah, and a question. ARE YOU INSANE? This is not rhetorical. I really want to know.

Besides, the proletariat might not revolt, as you are depending on. The monster you create may be too horrifically threatening to make an attempt on. In which case you would have to make things increasingly worse. By then, though, they may be revolting out of the pure unbearable AGONY THAT YOU WOULD CAUSE. They would have no more ideology to their revolution. They would not create a socialism or communism.

Plus, this is SELFISH! You would do this only to make things happen sooner. Why? SO THAT YOU COULD SEE IT. Sorry, it smelled good, but it was only half baked.

[che-Rabbi]

[QUOTE]crush the labor class with intensive work and poor wages.
Whos with you? sure as hell aint me!

[T_SP]

Uh a big ditto! Sounds like if you can't beat em join em to me! You seriously think you'll get the labour class' support??? I'm with the Woolwich over you pal!

[Kurai Tsuki]

I thought the working class was already being crushed with intensive work, I guess that means we can expect the revolution soon.

[frankiegoestostoke]

Sounds almost as good as my toothpick theory on saving the thirld world! (seriously... it could work...! and it is an actual idea...).

[FatFreeMilk]

All we have to do is start businesses, or inherit them, and conquer the capital class. When this has been done, we must crush the labor clas with intesive work and poor wages. The harder we crush, the faster communism comes to frution.


Okay that is retarted.


Damnit, I was hoping there was gonna be a real brilliant idea on how to get a Communist society going just from this thread&#33; Shucks <_<

[Valkyrie]

hi Encore. I&#39;m an anarchist. And anarchists don&#39;t follow a pre-program of how it&#39;s suppose to be done nor throw out the baby with the bathwater.

I agree with everything you said, except the last part of crushing with low wage, etc. I think communist industries will have to run on communist principles and instead can offer cooperative wages and benefits (equal profit sharing) which is the grab, so to speak.

I&#39;ve also come to the conclusion that the best way to get there is having a communist parallel society that in the initial stages coexist with the capitalist society until it overtakes and wipes out the capitalist society. This idea is based on and inspired by the few communist/anarchist businesses that are currently in practice and on the success of the Ithaca & Baltimore Hour which are cooperatives that trade services rather than use a cash exchange.

I think the first part of your idea can be much expanded upon and it&#39;s merits should be seriously discussed as an authentic option before discarded because it&#39;s outside the Marxist norm.

The good thing is that communism businesses can be set up now.. and probably the good thing about Capitalism is that nobody can stop a communist business from operating in a communist way.

Well, I for one, would like to hear more of your ideas.

[Pawn Power]

of course&#33; thats perfect&#33; you are so smart&#33;

[Valkyrie]

Hey Encore,

Here&#39;s some Non-profit&#33; worker=owned cooperatives operating in the US. Non-profit worker coops would be the way to go.

Anyway, between that, and workers seizing control of production from capitalists at the jobs they already work at .. and of course a few little gun battles that some will not depart from... we should be able to accomplish a communist society sooner or later. anyhow, Keep thinking of strategy. It&#39;s good for the cause&#33;

Food for Thought Books, MA
Non-profit book store,
4 worker-owned employees
&#036;275,000 annual sales

Gentle Dragon Child Care, WA
non-profit childare services
Annual income &#036;250.000

Red Sun Press, MA
Non-profit printing press
10 worker owned employees
&#036;450,000 annual sales

Left Bank Books, WA
Non-Profit Leftist bookstore


There&#39;s also some big worker-coops in Spain called Mondragon. I&#39;m not sure what they produce or if they operate non-profit, but it&#39;s kind something like 400,000 workers, i think. seems interesting and will do some research on it.

[Valkyrie]

forget Mondragon in Spain, It&#39;s some kind of a Mutalist system, as far as i read.

[Floyd.]

See if you can pick who said this: "Cruel leaders are overthrown onlt to have leaders turn cruel"? I&#39;m sure as fuck against you

[Ian]

Encore I hope that you haven&#39;t spent too much time on this idea, as it is clearly not thought through at all.

[Raisa]

Originally posted by [email protected] 9 2004, 02:28 AM

All we have to do is start businesses, or inherit them, and conquer the capital class. When this has been done, we must crush the labor clas with intesive work and poor wages.
How insulting to suggest this does not exist allready.

[The Feral Underclass]

Thanks Valkyrie, thanks Arch Premier.

To the rest of the people in this thread, if you are going to post responses to peoples threads can you do it with substance and without being rude. Stop wasting your and other peoples time. If it hadn&#39;t been for those two posts I would have wasted 15 minutes of my life listening to you people *****.

[The Feral Underclass]

Originally posted by [email protected] 9 2004, 04:28 AM
IN OUR LIFETIME&#33;

This is a popular train of thought. The idea that we can "do it in our life time" is one that is constantly on our minds. We all desperatly want to see communism happen and be apart of that transition. Unfortunatly, if we are serious about wanting to create a communist society the question should not be, how do we do it in our lifetimes? but how do we get it right?

Rushing into things is the way it has been done before and it has failed, miserably.

[encore]

Hey guys, sorry about the late reply and the bump in this thread, but I&#39;ve been away for a week helping underprivileged children in malasia.

Anyways, Archpremier suggested that this method "might" bring about the anti-capitalist revolution, but it also might not. First let me point out that I am not predicting that, I am simply paraphrasing the communist manifesto, laid down by Marx & Engels, which predicts everything with which my idea was based on.

Next, let me say that this was something of a joke, but as I thought more and more about it, it would work, assume Marx was right (I think he was).

I think the greatest (and possibly insurmountable) problem with the process is not conquering the economic markets of modern society (though that&#39;s bound to be pretty tough), but the hardest part would be to retain your ideologies once you have accomplished total market dominance. In this case it would take a hardened will to crush the labor class. Only a truly caring, compassionate and blindly faithful advocate would be able to accomplish this daunting task. I nominate me.

Okay, I realise that this is a hare-brained idealistic take on the whole situation, but at least it&#39;s fun.


By the war, Comrade La Vista... who did say that?

[Yazman]

Sounds like Stalin&#39;s logic to me, encore.