A few questions on FARC

[Subversive Pessimist]

Are they Marxist? What do you think? If they are true Marxist, why do they use suicide bombers, terrorism, massacre, and kidnapping? I mean, they don't seem like 'nice' people.

I think they have 16 000 revolutionaries.... Why don't we hear about fighting between the government and FARC? Are they instead busy kidnapping and killing peasents?

What is the difference between ELN and FARC? Do they co-operate?

Why do they continue fighting for 40 years or something, when they could probably take over a country such as Bolivia, with just a few hundred soldiers?

:unsure:

[Daniel Karssenberg]

Are they Marxist? What do you think?

I think that in their hearts, they're plain rebels who want to cause chaos and who want to make money. Their Marxist fake-stances are basically to attract young, poor and desperate people in their rebel organisation.


If they are true Marxist, why do they use suicide bombers, terrorism, massacre, and kidnapping? I mean, they don't seem like 'nice' people.

They're not indeed. I think that they once were Marxist but lost their true believe and now use methods which are inhumane.


I think they have 16 000 revolutionaries.... Why don't we hear about fighting between the government and FARC? Are they instead busy kidnapping and killing peasents?
To spread fear and to show they're in control. Probably both the government and the FARC keep behind information to let the world think they have a clean face.


What is the difference between ELN and FARC? Do they co-operate?

I thought they did, the ELN will probably be absorbed in the FARC. Or disappear by means of peace truces with the authorities.


Why do they continue fighting for 40 years or something, when they could probably take over a country such as Bolivia, with just a few hundred soldiers?

What's in it for them to capture Bolivia, they are not capable of normally controlling a country.

[Y2A]

If the people on these boards consider them "good" then they are "marxist" if they consider them "bad" then they'll say they are not "marxist".

[Guerrilla22]

Certainly one can argue that FARC has strayed pretty far from their original intent of overthrowing the government and installing a socialist one, but just because they use questionable tatics doesn' necissarily mean that they aren't marxist. Groups like Hamas and Islamic Jihad use the same tatics, but you certainly can't argue that their intent is to drive the israelis out.

Quite a bit of the time the kidnappings are aimed at gringos, in attempt to gain money, the same with their involvement in the drug trade.

The government of Colombia (which is armed to the tooth and whose military is trained by the US) still fights with FARC constantly, even on a daily basis. You'll never hear any media coverage about it in the US because by now its old news and doesn't have the attention of the entire world like the Palestinian-Israeli conflict does. The CIA and US special forces also engage in operations against FARC and ELN also.

ELN was actually set up by the Cuban governmnet in the 60's, they tend to use less agressive tatics as FARC, but still are heavily involved in a guerrilla war also.

[Daniel Karssenberg]

I think the people on this site are wise enough to realise this organisation has been corrupted.

[revolutionindia]

The FARC is a dream come true commie organisation for all the druggie commies on this board.

They grow and supply the world with vast quantities of
Heroin.

Way to go commies..
Way to go.............................

[Bolshevist]

revolutionindia

are you on drugs? or are you just kidding?

[Daniel Karssenberg]

ELN was actually set up by the Cuban governmnet in the 60's, they tend to use less agressive tatics as FARC, but still are heavily involved in a guerrilla war also.

Only they loose power greatly...

Whereas this mostly turns around money (even for the FARC, they're no longer interested in MArxism) the AUC will win, they have a better flow of income and better paid soldiers.

[dopediana]

there is a pretty good reason for the FARC to have lost sight of their goals. back in the early 90s leftist groups agreed to disarm after negotiations with the colombian government. they were all but wiped out. in colombia until some alternate solution is formulated there will only be fighting for control of villages and fields all over colombia. villagers can only pick the group of the moment because there is no preferable option. protection in exchange for food and secrecy.

[insurgency03]

The FARC is a dream come true commie organisation for all the druggie commies on this board.

personally im not a big fan of exploiting a nations people to grow coke and heroin, even though i do enjoy my grass to its furthest extent.

by the way have u ever tried grass, if u havnt it might just change ur mind about some of the stereotypes people and religions stick on it.

[dopediana]

no "druggie commie" would want drugs garnered through the exploitation of others......

and grass is not the drug that "divides" the world and causes wars to be fought. heck, you can grow your own. coke and heroin acheive their potential to give you a high through chemical treatment which is performed in illegal labs all over the place.

and it's not just the FARC that benefits from drug money. it's the AUC and the colombian government to the same extent.

[schumi]

Wasn't Che part of the ELN back in Bolivia??? In Jon Lee's book he writes that the Che's group was called the ELN and that Cuba sent other revolutionaries to bolivia under the name of ELN...

is it the same ELN or is it an other group that operates in Columbia? :unsure:

[MiDnIgHtMaRaUdEr]

Are they Marxist? What do you think? If they are true Marxist, why do they use suicide bombers, terrorism, massacre, and kidnapping? I mean, they don't seem like 'nice' people.

Can you verify anything about suicide bombing and massacring civilians? They are a guerrilla warfare organization, what are they supposed to do? Ask nicely?


I think they have 16 000 revolutionaries.... Why don't we hear about fighting between the government and FARC? Are they instead busy kidnapping and killing peasents?

Just because you don't hear about the fighting doesn't mean that they don't fight. They've tried several times to blockade Bogata, but maybe your Rush Limbaugh hearing didn't catch that. As for they kidnapping and killing peasants, I think you've been watching too much FOX.


Why do they continue fighting for 40 years or something, when they could probably take over a country such as Bolivia, with just a few hundred soldiers?

You don't understand, they are not fighitng the Columbian army, they are fighting America. You know? The people to fund and send "military advisers" to Columbia? The current Columbian administration is just an American puppet regime.

[LuZhiming]

Originally posted by [email protected] 10 2004, 10:37 AM
The FARC is a dream come true commie organisation for all the druggie commies on this board.

They grow and supply the world with vast quantities of
Heroin.

Way to go commies..
Way to go.............................
I'm no supporter of FARC, but they have been requesting that the Colombian government with aid from the United States create programs for alternative crops, it's refused everytime. Drug trafficking wasn't even that much of a problem in Colombia in the early 50s, but U.S. agrobusiness caused thousands of peasents to be driven from their land where they produced food, and now peasents do whatever they can not to starve, and that usually means producing coca. All FARC does is tax it. As has been said earlier, drug trafficking is part of the elite culture in Colombia, the paramilitaries and actual members of the government are the ones most involved in it.

[MiDnIgHtMaRaUdEr]

What would you like them to do? Sell FARC scout cookies?

[insurgency03]

i've actually done some recent readings on farc just yesterday, they done some minute good too, they ended the lawlessness of the southern reigion of Columbia(this does not justify their manipulation of the people however) any1 who commits a serious crime there(I.E. murder or rape) is forced to do manual labor to build bridges and roads in the reigion.

[socialistfuture]

here is the FARC iffical site

http://www.farcep.org/pagina_ingles/

while i think the FARC are not ideal they are not in an ideal situation. when u are facing a miliatry govermemement who uses force to supress leftist unionists, parties and generally anyone who stands in the way you are not left with a lot of choice. they took up arms. colombia is under siege, native rights are under siege.

the war on drugs is no different to the war on(of) terrorism. crops are being destroyed - livlyhoods are being destroyed, lives are. labelling leftist guerillas as narco terrorists when they want foreign troops out of their country is misleading. they are demonised like the basque freedom fighters. sure they make mistakes, commit crime and kill - it is a war.

yankees out!!!!!!

[MiDnIgHtMaRaUdEr]

i've actually done some recent readings on farc just yesterday, they done some minute good too, they ended the lawlessness of the southern reigion of Columbia(this does not justify their manipulation of the people however) any1 who commits a serious crime there(I.E. murder or rape) is forced to do manual labor to build bridges and roads in the reigion.

O my! Manual labor! Have these people no decency!? Something must be done about this intolerable violation of human rights!

[Daniel Karssenberg]

I just heard 2 people were freed by the FARC... after 3 years of humiliation and imprisonment against their own will.

MiDnIgHtMaRaUdEr, are you serious in what you're saying?

Basically you just believe everything what is pro-Communist and anything which is Western you ask to be "verified", right? The FARC, however lost their ideals years ago, and they DO kidnapping and force people into DRUG trade. What they're supposed to do? Stop terrorising the people of Columbia, maybe that'll be nice?

I haven't ever seen FOX news so I do not know how Biased it is, but reports of kidnapping and killing peasants have been on the Dutch media as well. But no wait... we're capitalist scum and we're controlled by the US.

... They too fight democracy and the people...

[MiDnIgHtMaRaUdEr]

Yep, FARC regularly kidnaps government officials and people working with right-wing paramilitaries. Do you think those guerillas are living in the jungles because they couldn't find a good place to build their mansions from all the cash they got in from drugs? They terrorize no one, they are fighting to free Columbia. What do you think they should do? Hold a peace protect? Or perhaps they should start growing marijuana and get in touch with their spiritual side?

[bunk]

from BBC:
Colombia's left-wing Farc rebels have freed the two sons of a former politician whom they kidnapped in a raid on an apartment building in 2001.

How come the AUC is on the U.S's list of terror organisations and they have asked for Castano to be extradited if they are funding and training them?

[MiDnIgHtMaRaUdEr]

If you want to make an omlet you are going to have to break some eggs...

[Daniel Karssenberg]

Yep, FARC regularly kidnaps government officials and people working with right-wing paramilitaries.
They also capture foreigners, the biggest difference between the AUC and the FARC is probably that the FARC is making Columbia less interesting for foreigners than the AUC does.


They terrorize no one, they are fighting to free Columbia.

I would like to know how many people believe this blatant propaganda, the FARC forces all people in their territory to pay a so called protection tax, this is sometimes terribly high… Forcing people to go from normal farming to drugs, making them ultimately slaves of Drugs Barons,and their drugs is taxed again by the FARC, if they want to live. They too attack ordinary policemen or anyone who allegedly spoke or traded with the AUC.


What do you think they should do?

Lay down their arms.


Hold a peace protect? Or perhaps they should start growing marijuana and get in touch with their spiritual side?

Yeah, that would be a LOT better than what they’’re doing now.

[Danton]

They are a bunch of primitive, slow witted gangsters still practicing Guevara's disproven "foco" theory of Guerilla warfare, they're knobheads...

[bunk]

'They are a bunch of primitive, slow witted gangsters still practicing Guevara's disproven "foco" theory of Guerilla warfare, they're knobheads... '

do you actually think that the workers will suddenly start a revolution of course not, there needs to be a group that starts it off for other people to join. I am not talking about a vanguard party.

[Osman Ghazi]

I would like to know how many people believe this blatant propaganda, the FARC forces all people in their territory to pay a so called protection tax, this is sometimes terribly high

So does the government. What's your point?


They too attack ordinary policemen or anyone who allegedly spoke or traded with the AUC.


Police are vital instruments in the bourgeos system of repression. Would you decry them for killing an 'ordinary soldier'? No. Soldiers and cops are fascists that deserve to die.

Not of course that I support FARC, I'm just pointing out a few things.

[MiDnIgHtMaRaUdEr]

Lol, a lot of us say FARC isn't doing enough fighting, and a lot of us say too much fighting. What an impossible to please crowd...

[Subversive Pessimist]

Uh, I didn't believe FARC believed in the foco theory.
From what I know, the foco theory is the logic that a few "superhumans" will fight against a much bigger force, and it will win the hearts of the population, and they will ultimately join the fight.

If what I'm saying is correct, why do FARC have 16 000 revolutionaries?

I believe the FARC should fight more, but limit the suicide bombings, massacre on farmers etc.

[Nas]

you can still see the impact Marx made on the world

anyways,
there are many problems in South America going on right now , one of the problems is between the people and the governments ( you could relate this to capitalism) there are many groups in South America that want to solve the problems their own way , thats why you see a lot of left political parties from South America divided , and then they want the people to follow them .

Revolutionary Armed Forces of Colombia (FARC):

it is believed the FARC was established during 1964 or 1966 , this is after the Cuba Revolution of 1959, so i would say they had the marxist/maoist ideology at the start , what happen to them after that? , is also known they have committed horrible attacks to civilians making the FARC terrorists, now , most recently it is known that they have ties to narcotic traffic activities, hmm.... so they have enough power to commit terrorist attacks and deal drugs

Colombia: world's leading coca cultivator (cultivation of coca in 2002 was 144,450 hectares, a 15% decline since 2001), the world's largest processor of coca derivatives into cocaine

so i would say these people are communists gona bad, they might still have the revolutionary mentality but i think they are probably making lots of $$ by dealing



"with great power comes great responsability"
Uncle Ben , from Spider-Man,
(you can watch Spider-Man 2 , now on your local theaters

[Guerrilla22]

Originally posted by [email protected] 15 2004, 01:54 PM
from BBC:
Colombia's left-wing Farc rebels have freed the two sons of a former politician whom they kidnapped in a raid on an apartment building in 2001.

How come the AUC is on the U.S's list of terror organisations and they have asked for Castano to be extradited if they are funding and training them?
I don't believe that Castano is still the leader of the AUC, or even still involved in the AUC for that matter. As far as the terrorist designation, its just for show, officially the US and Colombian governments have no relationship with the AUC, which by now most people know is false, since a former Green Beret came out and admitted that the US was trainning far-right paramilitary groups in Colombia, including the AUC.

[Daniel Karssenberg]

So does the government. What's your point?

That I am against such aggressive taxes, but let us not start such a discussion. Though there is a big difference between ordinary income tax, and “protection tax” which practically means: your life or you money, I see nothing communist in that. Though I am in favour of the legalisation of all drugs, FARC has no right to tax this product.


Police are vital instruments in the bourgeos system of repression. Would you decry them for killing an 'ordinary soldier'? No. Soldiers and cops are fascists that deserve to die.

I would, I think the death of these policemen is unnecessary many are too, victims of circumstances. How should we be able to debate if you have no respect for human life, I am sorry to bring it so harsh but you just said that certain people deserved to die.


I believe the FARC should fight more, but limit the suicide bombings, massacre on farmers etc.

Then who should they fight?


the US was trainning far-right paramilitary groups in Colombia, including the AUC.

Would you be against it if Cuba trained FARC rebels?

[Osman Ghazi]

Though there is a big difference between ordinary income tax, and “protection tax” which practically means: your life or you money

Not really. Nations have the advantage of seeming legitimacy through the social contract. The only difference is that they wont kill you, they'll just throw you in jail for income tax evasion.


Though I am in favour of the legalisation of all drugs, FARC has no right to tax this product.


Why not? They need resources to wage their war. They don't operate in a vacuum.


I would, I think the death of these policemen is unnecessary many are too, victims of circumstances. How should we be able to debate if you have no respect for human life, I am sorry to bring it so harsh but you just said that certain people deserved to die.


Some human beings deserve to die, no two ways about it. Generally, people who join armies and police forces do so because they find something 'cool' about being an agent of reaction. Generally they enjoy killing. Colombian soldiers especially are not known for their training or discipline and many have been found guilty of cooperating with fascist paramilitaries.

[Danton]

Originally posted by [email protected] 15 2004, 06:34 PM
Uh, I didn't believe FARC believed in the foco theory.
From what I know, the foco theory is the logic that a few "superhumans" will fight against a much bigger force, and it will win the hearts of the population, and they will ultimately join the fight.

If what I'm saying is correct, why do FARC have 16 000 revolutionaries?


In a population of 44.2 million - I think we can consider 16,000 hairy, smelly bumpkins and their unwashed offspring, a foco. An itsy bitsy foco at that.

[Guerrilla22]

Originally posted by Daniel [email protected] 15 2004, 10:59 PM

That I am against such aggressive taxes, but let us not start such a discussion. Though there is a big difference between ordinary income tax, and “protection tax” which practically means: your life or you money, I see nothing communist in that. Though I am in favour of the legalisation of all drugs, FARC has no right to tax this product.




Would you be against it if Cuba trained FARC rebels?
FARC provides security for peasants and the peasants provide FAEC with food and funds for their revolution its a trade off. FARC has to expend man power and pay to arm the people protecting the peasants, why is it so bad that the peasants do something for them in return?

The thing about the US funding, arming and trainning the AUC is that Cuba doesn't pretend to not fund groups like ELN, to look good in the international community, the US calls the AUC terrorist and murders to the intl. community, but at the same time is funding them. Typical hypocritical, backwards US foreign policy.

[CubanFox]

Originally posted by [email protected] 16 2004, 06:57 PM
FARC provides security for peasants and the peasants provide FAEC with food and funds for their revolution its a trade off. FARC has to expend man power and pay to arm the people protecting the peasants, why is it so bad that the peasants do something for them in return?

The thing about the US funding, arming and trainning the AUC is that Cuba doesn't pretend to not fund groups like ELN, to look good in the international community, the US calls the AUC terrorist and murders to the intl. community, but at the same time is funding them. Typical hypocritical, backwards US foreign policy.
Racketeering with plantations?

"We give-a you-a the security, and you give-a us-a the cocaine."

Oh, can't you see the local comandante in his pearl grey fedora?

[Daniel Karssenberg]

Not really. Nations have the advantage of seeming legitimacy through the social contract. The only difference is that they wont kill you, they'll just throw you in jail for income tax evasion.

I’d rather be in jail for some time than dead, on the other hand, maybe Columbian jails mean death…


Why not? They need resources to wage their war. They don't operate in a vacuum.

So everyone can just start demanding money for people to go somewhere, that is called robbery or corruption you know? Should I force everyone to pay money if they drive through my lane? Which is not even my property? Claiming money over someone’s else produced products is theft or slavery.


Some human beings deserve to die, no two ways about it. Generally, people who join armies and police forces do so because they find something 'cool' about being an agent of reaction. Generally they enjoy killing. Colombian soldiers especially are not known for their training or discipline and many have been found guilty of cooperating with fascist paramilitaries.

I agree that this is bad, but I still do not think that they deserve to die… :( Well maybe thats just a fundamental difference… They may join the army because they see it as the best way to get money for their family, to get some protection from terrorists eh I mean freedom fighters.


FARC provides security for peasants and the peasants provide FAEC with food and funds for their revolution its a trade off. FARC has to expend man power and pay to arm the people protecting the peasants, why is it so bad that the peasants do something for them in return?

Maybe because forcing people to contribute is theft? Or is theft okay to you? Maybe some peasants do not want to cooperate with the FARC?


The thing about the US funding, arming and trainning the AUC is that Cuba doesn't pretend to not fund groups like ELN, to look good in the international community, the US calls the AUC terrorist and murders to the intl. community, but at the same time is funding them. Typical hypocritical, backwards US foreign policy.

Could you give me a good source about the US funding the AUC?