WTF is proletarism?

[ComradeRed]

WTF is proletarism?

[Revolt!]

this should be in New to it all.

[redstar2000]

PROLETARISM?, A Letter From Grigory Isayev (http://www.che-lives.com/forum/index.php?showtopic=26173)

:redstar2000:

The Redstar2000 Papers (http://www.redstar2000papers.fightcapitalism.net)
A site about communist ideas

[Kurai Tsuki]

Do you know what a protetariat is? It should not be too hard to figure out the rest of it ^_^

[Hate Is Art]

explain then KT, if it's so easy.

[antieverything]

Also an aspect of some parts of the "New Left" in the 60s. The idea was that hippies and druggies weren't going to make revolution and that young radicals should adopt the dress, culture, and values of the working class as well as take work in factories in order to "proletarianize" themselves.

Gotta love the "Encyclopedia of the American Left"!!!

[Rasta Sapian]

is just sounds like another word to describe union workers to me. :lol:

p.s. scabs are always welcome @ walmart.

[Elect Marx]

Originally posted by [email protected] 15 2004, 10:07 PM
Also an aspect of some parts of the "New Left" in the 60s. The idea was that hippies and druggies weren't going to make revolution and that young radicals should adopt the dress, culture, and values of the working class as well as take work in factories in order to "proletarianize" themselves.

Gotta love the "Encyclopedia of the American Left"!!!
It makes sense. You adopt the working class life to affect it. This seems a bit senseless though where it goes into culture, and values; you need to have communist values which unfortunatly I would not concider common in the WC.

I do like the idea of realating to the working class. Being alienated, hostile and or arrogant will not brigde the gap between the leftist movement and the workers. I would say that anyone displaying those qualities overwhelmingly is not a communist and likely not even a leftist. Distancing yourself from those you say you stand for is blatant hypocracy and the workers can see it.

[T_SP]

Our members very often take a workers wage and donate the rest to the party, is this the same thing? Our MP's and union leaders etc also do the same.

[dark fairy]

I agree with most of the above...

[apathy maybe]

If you control no means of production but your own body, then you are a proletariat.

If the definition above is used, the word can not be used like that of other isms. I am a communist, I promote Communism. I am a Proletariat, I promote (and support etc) Prolatarism. The link redstar2000 provided seems to explain it in the sense that even a capitalist (i.e. owns some means of production) can be a proletariat.

[redstar2000]

Here is a site that's intended to discuss "proletarism"...

http://struggle.net/proletarism

:redstar2000:

The Redstar2000 Papers (http://www.redstar2000papers.fightcapitalism.net)
A site about communist ideas

[Djehuti]

Originally posted by [email protected] 15 2004, 10:07 PM
Also an aspect of some parts of the "New Left" in the 60s. The idea was that hippies and druggies weren't going to make revolution and that young radicals should adopt the dress, culture, and values of the working class as well as take work in factories in order to "proletarianize" themselves.

Gotta love the "Encyclopedia of the American Left"!!!
Hahahahaha! I really know what you mean. :)
Ouvrierism meets role playing meets marxism-leninism. ;)


Its crap, why the hack "proletarianize" themselfs?
Dont they know that being a proletarian is the suckiest thing i the damn world?
We dont want to be workers, we hate it. To hell with alienated work.

Today, we are labour, to destroy capitalism we need to sieze being labour and form us as a class. Then all power is our, then we can destroy ourselfs as labour, wich would also destroy the bourgeoisie and ourselfs as class. Then communism.




Bakunin:
What does it mean, the proletariat organized as ruling class?

Marx:
It means that the proletariat, instead of struggling sectionally against the economically privileged class, has attained a sufficient strength and organization to employ general means of coercion in this struggle. It can however only use such economic means as abolish its own character as salariat, hence as class. With its complete victory its own rule thus also ends, as its class character has disappeared.

[Essential Insignificance]

Today, we are labour, to destroy capitalism we need to sieze being labour and form us as a class. Then all power is our, then we can destroy ourselfs as labour, wich would also destroy the bourgeoisie and ourselfs as class. Then communism.

Today "we" are still human beings, but, are reduced to the most intolerable circumstances, which by class society’s "virtue" has, escaped our control, and thus, we have no "real" power over the economic, social and political spectrum of modern day society--generally .

The economical state of affairs which the proletariat is conditioned by, gives rise to the moral, spiritual, social and political coercion--the false consciousness--of civil society. The economical subjection of the proletariat to the monopoliser, the bringer of all social misery, metal degradation; ought to be of prime importance, for the emancipation of the working class.

The economical liberation of society is a social and political movement of deliverance--certain to lead the "banners" of freedom from the wretchedness of capitalism.

We only "own" our individual labour-power, which by, material conditions, are forced into social labour; which if life is to be sustained, must be sold to the capitalist class at the "best" possible price one can obtain, our face beggary or worse yet, starvation!

The proletarian class is just that-- a class, a political and social class--every social movement is a political movement.

The class struggle is an economic struggle.

[Djehuti]

Originally posted by Essential [email protected] 10 2004, 02:16 AM

Today "we" are still human beings, but, are reduced to the most intolerable circumstances, which by class society’s "virtue" has, escaped our control, and thus, we have no "real" power over the economic, social and political spectrum of modern day society--generally .

The economical state of affairs which the proletariat is conditioned by, gives rise to the moral, spiritual, social and political coercion--the false consciousness--of civil society. The economical subjection of the proletariat to the monopoliser, the bringer of all social misery, metal degradation; ought to be of prime importance, for the emancipation of the working class.

The economical liberation of society is a social and political movement of deliverance--certain to lead the "banners" of freedom from the wretchedness of capitalism.

We only "own" our individual labour-power, which by, material conditions, are forced into social labour; which if life is to be sustained, must be sold to the capitalist class at the "best" possible price one can obtain, our face beggary or worse yet, starvation!

The proletarian class is just that-- a class, a political and social class--every social movement is a political movement.

The class struggle is an economic struggle.
"Today "we" are still human beings,"

To those who rule, we are not humans.
We are labour, and consumers.

"and thus, we have no "real" power over the economic, social and political spectrum of modern day society--generally."

I would rather say that we have ALL real power, but we havent understod that yet. ;) As long as we accept being reduced to labour, we will be just labour.
But at the time that we will understand how things work and unite, and be a class.
We would be the most powerfull class by far.

"The class struggle is an economic struggle."

Njeee. Capitalism is much stronger (and weaker in some way) then a hundred years ago. Capitalism is now everywere, almost everything is reduces to commodities. And so the class struggle is now everywere, not only within the gates to the factory. Capitalism is also vurnerable in more ways now. It is larger and have more weak spots so to speak.

[Essential Insignificance]

To those who rule, we are not humans.
We are labour, and consumers.

I think you're looking at "things", far too conceptually.

We are all, still human beings.

However, in class society the ruling classes do, undeniably, think that they are "better" and "superior" to the remaining (vast majority) "filth". And their right, in some regards!

Nevertheless, seemingly, you've given into their "labels"--I know I never will.



I would rather say that we have ALL real power, but we havent understod that yet.

In my sentence that you quoted, you would have noticed the word "generally"--I meant by that, what you pointing out now. I properly should have specified.

Indeed we do have all the "power", but, unfortunately, it's dormant--currently.

At the present time, our social power is seldom exercised in relation to the political and economic spectrum (although there is an illusion that we, indeed do)--even the bourgeois have great difficulties trying to, perhaps, fruitlessly control the economical side of society.


As long as we accept being reduced to labour, we will be just labour.
But at the time that we will understand how things work and unite, and be a class.
We would be the most powerfull class by far

Correct. The proletarian class will, someday, transform from a class "in itself" to a class "for itself".