Feminism, Prohibition & Animal Rights

[DaCuBaN]

In one of the threads on this board I mentioned that these concerns are ones that only plague the 'left'. This was the response I received:


When you say that you totally make our efforts seem as though its done to spite the right. Have you ever thought that some of us truely care about these issues and could give less than two shits who is concerned with it. We dont do it just by default. You are totally devaluing our work and beliefs.

I believe these 'issues' are a complete and utter waste of time and effort. What's the point in pushing for 'better treatment' of animals? Why bother with 'womyn's rights'? Why force the issue on drugs?

We would be far better to spend our time on the underlying problem - Capitalism.

We live in a society where we basically try to make our kin bend over backwards to suit our goals; where we exploit anything or anyone who cannot resist and where we persecute that which we do not understand

Why try to treat the symptoms when we've already got a cure to the disease?

[Soul Rebel]

The problem is that capitalism created these things. It created these things in order to sustain itself. Without racism, sexism, homophobia, classism, etc. capitalism cannot survive. These -isms form oppressive experiences, which are needed in order for capitalism to survive. Without them capitalism will fall apart. Thats how capitalism works- it needs people to be oppressed in order for others to excel.

Now, if you want to do away with capitalism you need to do away with every form of oppression. However, you cannot just battle one at a time: you have to battle all of them, since they are all interlocking. Every -ism needs the other and when working together they create unique experiences of oppression, which is why poor black womyn will suffer oppression differently then say a middle class lesbian woman. Each -ism has a set of roles for people to play out, which vary according to your status. Its the concept of intersectionality.

So if anything is going to change at all -isms need to be challenged altogether, not individually. Capitalism alone cannot be challenged alone as it has created these things. These -isms are like the building blocks of capitalism- they hold it up. If you challenge all these things together you are challenging capitalism, but not focusing on just one aspect of it, but all aspects.

Get what im saying?

This is why the feminist movement is needed. And believe it or not, this is why the animal rights movement is needed. You would be suprised how the oppression of humans is related to the oppression of animals. There are many similarities and connections between the two.

In a way, when you disregard these movements as useless you are not helping the overall cause at all. All you are doing is stopping it from progressing.

[DaCuBaN]

isms need to be challenged altogether [...] These -isms are like the building blocks of capitalism

I follow your sentiment, and believe it or not I do agree. To continue with the same analogy however, to destroy a bridge, one must only remove the keystone...


You would be suprised how the oppression of humans is related to the oppression of animals

Not much surprises me I&#39;m afraid <_<
Do you not consider that if we continue to push human rights concerns above all else that such &#39;tandem&#39; concerns would follow? Do you not feel that feminism is in fact entirely contained within aforementioned rights?

To me, it&#39;s always looked like &#39;Female Supremacy&#39; - and with the exception of yourself those who advocate the concern seem to hold this dear. This is of course merely a perception, but I cannot be entirely alone there.

For feminism and animal rights, the simple phrase &#39;Do no harm&#39; would pretty much cover it.


In a way, when you disregard these movements as useless you are not helping the overall cause at all. All you are doing is stopping it from progressing

I would disagree&#33; challenging [/I]any[I] accepted convention is always useful, even if it only makes the people concerned stop and contemplate for just a second.

[Nickademus]

feminism needs to be addressed because the cause will be much stronger when we have more women on side and that&#39;s not going to happen until women feel stronger and more empowered... that&#39;s exactly what feminism is about (not male bashing like many people engage in).

[fuerzasocialista]

I&#39;m not into this animal rights bit. I don&#39;t appreciate or advocate the mistreatment of animals but groups like PETA are just ridiculous in my mind. I enjoy my steak and chicken. Anyone else who doesn&#39;t isn&#39;t my problem.

[elijahcraig]

Feminism is a joke, I like drugs, and animals rights is ridiculous.

[redstar2000]

I believe these &#39;issues&#39; are a complete and utter waste of time and effort. What&#39;s the point in pushing for &#39;better treatment&#39; of animals? Why bother with &#39;womyn&#39;s rights&#39;? Why force the issue on drugs?

Because just saying "down with capitalism" or even managing to do that doesn&#39;t get the job done.

Capitalism didn&#39;t spring forth de novo like Athena from the forehead of Zeus. It was "superimposed" on all the previous forms of oppression and exploitation.

As it happens, capitalism is not particularly tolerant of its economic rivals...slavery and serfdom were suppressed, violently where necessary.

But capitalists have found non-economic forms of traditional oppression quite useful...even economically useful.

There are many obvious examples of this: racism means that you can pay some ethnic groups less than others for the same work (for a while, anyway); sexism means you can do the same to women (also for a while).

The institutionalized persecution of gay people could probably be shown to be a useful method of "social control" while the institutionalized persecution of drug users has given America one of its fastest growing "industries" -- prisons.

"Animal rights", I will grant you, looks rather "marginal" at this point...but even so, many of those folks do help develop an "anti-corporate" attitude among the general public, and that can&#39;t hurt.

I think the communist attitude should be one of encouragement to all forms of serious resistance to capitalist rule...even if they are not explicitly "revolutionary".

Some of them, in time, may become so.

:redstar2000:

The Redstar2000 Papers (http://www.redstar2000papers.fightcapitalism.net)
A site about communist ideas