Cheism, Guevaraism

[Wiesty]

Ive been thinking lately,
why is there no branch of belief like what che was.
Even though he was a leftist-leninist
He had his own quotes, morals, beliefs

I say there should be a new branch called Guevaraism

[Kurai Tsuki]

There is a branch called Guevarism, the word just isn't used very often. Run a search for Guevarism to find some discussion of his followers.

here's a book that includes guevarism as part of it's title (http://www.questia.com/PM.qst?a=o&d=34329491)

That's odd, I got a feeling of Deja vu while writing the link's text :unsure:

[percept¡on]

Because he didn't really have much of a political theory.

[Latin American Socialist]

People in peru celebrate guevaraism, the pray to a picture of him:

(translation in english)

Gun Loaded

Knife, Fork

Che Lives!


It sounds weird in english but it sounded better in their language.

[fernando]

Where in Peru do they do that? Ive been to some places in Peru, but I never seen them do that

[Latin American Socialist]

well, atleast thats what they did in my neighborhood.

[Kurai Tsuki]

Originally posted by percept¡[email protected] 2 2004, 12:57 PM
Because he didn't really have much of a political theory.
I've read many of his works and speeches, he seemed to have a very strong economic, military, and even somewhat political theory. Besides, theory is not only political.

[percept¡on]

Originally posted by [email protected] 2 2004, 07:06 PM
I've read many of his works and speeches, he seemed to have a very strong economic, military, and even somewhat political theory. Besides, theory is not only political.
justice, equality, revolution, love and humanism is not a political theory.

[Socialsmo o Muerte]

Of course Che had a political theory. Have you not got his speech books?

Also, you can read history books of Cuba and see what Che was involved in, especially the economic side.

Yes, he had his humanist principles and they are what are highlighted more about Che, but he did have theory. He criticises Marx a lot and adapts his own theory from Marx's; denouncing the state capitalism Marx recommends.

And besides, who says all those things aren't political theory? If anything, they are the most basic, fundamental principles of political theory. You may not get taught them in your university Politics class, but everything bears down to them and Che had ideals for everything stemming from them.

[Kurai Tsuki]

Originally posted by percept¡[email protected] 2 2004, 10:02 PM
justice, equality, revolution, love and humanism is not a political theory.
Just as not all theory is political. Guevarism mixes elements of anti-imperialsm, productivity and socialism.

[redchina]

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"The whole world labourer unites! "


Chinese communist Professor

[fernando]

Originally posted by El [email protected] 2 2004, 07:03 PM
well, atleast thats what they did in my neighborhood.
where in Peru are you from?

[enigma2517]

I hate to burst your bubble here, I really do.

First off, let me start out by saying that I love Che. He was just another person like you or I that fought injustice, except that he went to enormous proportions to do so. The motivation for the things he did was pure and just. Thats something all of us should aspire for.

With the romanticism of his guerilla warfare and struggle he truely gave socialism a "human face". He once said, "I am not interested in dry economic socialism. We are fighting against misery, but we are also fighting against alienation. One of the fundamental objectives of Marxism is to remove interest, the factor of individual interest, and gain, from people's psychological motivations. Marx was preoccupied both with economic factors and with their repercussions on the spirit. If communism isn't interested in this too, it may be a method of distributing goods, but it will never be a revolutionary way of life."

So yeah, he has provided us with some useful insight into Marxism and the like. But honestly, Cheism? Do you really think he had enough of a (pragmatic) theory, if any significant theory at all? I bet that even if you could find something relating to that the important part always lies in the execution. Why do you think Marxism hasn't worked so far? Anarchists will argue its b/c of the socialist state thats a whole nother debate :P . After examining things such as the Russian and Chinese revolution it will become blantantly obvious to one that the revolutions were simply not a conscious movement of the working class, not supplemented with the proper material conditions.

That being said, what can we deduce from Che? Is his idea of liberation fighting a guerilla war in the jungle with some lumpen proletariat elements (peasants)? He did this while in Boliva. He did this while the workers were organizing in the streets and the citys. All of Che's wonderous abilities to lead and teach, how were they put to use? In a world where ideas easily conquer weapons he choose to be just another footsoldier in the jungle.

Who knows, maybe I'm wrong. Drop me a line and tell me so. But until then I'm highly convinced that Cheism would be stopping very short of simply worshipping another icon, and is that the catalyst that we should have for the evolution of socialism?

He's a good guy and we can learn quite a bit. But not THAT much. Take it in, move on, and may his spirit be always with you.

[Socialsmo o Muerte]

Firstly, thanks for the prayer.

Second, I personally was not suggesting such a thing as "Cheism" or "Guevaraism" can be coined, I was just saying that your suggestion that Che didn't have a political theory is ridiculous for the reasons I mentioned.

That said, I don't think people who do say such a thing as "Cheism" exists are merely "worshipping another icon" because there is a theory. And anyone who does suggest such a "theory" would surely not be just "worshipping another icon" as it is completely against Che Guevara's ideals to have personality worship in politics. It's a contradictory thing to say.

[enigma2517]

Alright thats cool. Two questions I have...

a.) How did Marx suggest state capitalism? I was always under the impression that that was always the (unintended) end result and thats why Marxism has failed up to this day. Failed of course is a really subjective term ;)

b.) Could you point me to some resources about Che's theory and briefly summarize them on your own?

[Nas]

bravo , the left gets more seperated ,

Che Guevarra is just a man , dont follow him , rather follow what he fought for !!!!!!

[Wiesty]

Originally posted by Nas[email protected] 7 2004, 03:18 AM
bravo , the left gets more seperated ,

Che Guevarra is just a man , dont follow him , rather follow what he fought for !!!!!!
?
no he was a hero
we had the right to follow him

ghandi was a man, marx, mao, ho chi mihn, lenin
they were all men
and we followed them becasue they were people who we could look up to and believe in

[sim22]

well, i've read around, trying to understand as much as i can about all these men's beliefs, and well, so far, che is the only one who i see as to have a good outlook on life. you say cause he had all this "justice, equality, revolution, love and humanism" that there cant be a guevaraism, well, maybe thats why all other attempts have failed?? they were distracted by other things, che had such human passions. if you say that people who have "justice, equality, revolution, love and humanism" can't be as great as Marx, Mao, Lenin etc.. then what hope is there for the next big great to come along?? we all share the same qualities as Che, so that can inspire us to do what he did. i mean, im hopeless at politics, does that mean that i cant acheive anything like Che?? i think Guevaraism is good cause it's on a level everyone can relate to. well..thats my thoughts on it...

[fernando]

I really like his ideas on the united Latin America, we are not Peruvians, Argentines, Bolivians, no...we are all part of a big family consisting of 200 million (in Che's time) brothers and sister, with the same passion, the same misery, the same wish for our lands to become strong, free of Yankee Imperialism

[fernando]

Well I live in Holland...that might be hard, after September 11 it became even harder to get work by Guevara, unless it's Yankee work which is about how much of a "failure" he was

[fernando]

I need a credit card for that...I dont have one