China is the economic Daddy of the U.S.

[colombiano]

I just would like to hear your opinions. China has figured out a way to in the long run crush the USA. More and more American companies are becoming dependent on Chinese imported goods and Americans don't seem to mind. Anything to save a buck or two. The US is eroding its tax base away little by little. More and more jobs leaving the US to be sent to cheap labor markets. Thus putting the majority of Americans out of work or on the verge of unemployment. If the trend continues the only people left in the land of Liberty will be the poor and the rich who have profited from the cheap labor markets. So all you imperialist pigs think about that next time you are at Walmart each dollar you spend you are only making The RED Army Stronger!
Hasta La Victoria Siempre !!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!

[colombiano]

C'mon PIGGIES lets hear it. Your Missle secrets are gone fromunder a Democratic presidency and a Rebulican went to bat asking congress for most favored nation trade status. All with a country that is totally against what YOU stand for! OINK OINK [email protected]%#R$!!

[Louis Pio]

Well China has an advantage they taken the worst from communism and the worst from capitalism. Now people are both unemployed and surpressed!
That's obviously a win situation for capitalists. No right to strike, a government that helps capitalism by violent means if neccesary etc.

[Y2A]

You truly are retarded. China is capitalist. Any imbecile can tell you that. Anger by white suburban 14 teen yr olds has no boundries, indeed.

[Louis Pio]

The funny thing is though that most americans think otherwise :D

[Y2A]

Most people in general are imbeciles. Be it Americans, Brits, etc..... Even ideology-wise. Look at this moron who claims to be a "communist" *cough*reallyapinko*cough* that thought they are communist.

[Stapler]

Originally posted by [email protected] 2 2004, 01:48 AM
Most people in general are imbeciles. Be it Americans, Brits, etc..... Even ideology-wise. Look at this moron who claims to be a "communist" *cough*reallyapinko*cough* that thought they are communist.
Very coherent, I salute you.

[colombiano]

Just stating the facts Y2k are whoever you are. Retarded and stoned :D Something for you to think about. China has the seocond largest GDP next to the US. The only advantage the US had had was in the technology field however that is rapdily changing. Billions of dollars spent in trade with China every year but I can't even buy a Cuban cigar ! Land Of Hypocrisy without a doubt!

[Y2A]

You were implying that China is "Communist" which it is not. And you continue to do so.

[colombiano]

Well it is NOT a capatalist/ democracy. Are you saying it is? I was also trying to bring awareness that the US has fought Chinese backed regimes in 2 wars, however not directly. With this in mind I was making an attempt to point out the hypocrisy that exsits with the U.S. foreign policies and the genearl American public.

[Y2A]

Anyone will tell you that after Xiaoping's reforms China seized to be considered Communist due to the move from a planned economy to a market-based one. Saying that this is the same Maoist China is ridiculous.

[Y2A]

http://www.che-lives.com/forum/index.php?showtopic=26619

heh heh heh......I saw your post in the politics board. I think you should read a little and get a better concept of history before you go on and make threads like this.

[colombiano]

The economic structure of China now is more socialist that capitalist, with small scale private enterprise combined with foreign trade and investment. However the Legisslative body(National People's Congress) is by all means NOT capitalist. Do you honestly think that some time down the road that the changes made will not revert , nationalizing all interests? I am aware of the reforms made but to call it a total capitalist state to me is absurd. Socialist would be more appopriate. However you arre missing the point of the thread my friend. I am trying to point out the hypocrisy that lies in american foreign policy and with the general consensus of the american public.

[Rex_20XD6]

If china wanted to they could stop importing goods and kill the US’s economy.

[Hoppe]

Originally posted by [email protected] 2 2004, 12:54 AM
I just would like to hear your opinions. China has figured out a way to in the long run crush the USA. More and more American companies are becoming dependent on Chinese imported goods and Americans don't seem to mind. Anything to save a buck or two. The US is eroding its tax base away little by little. More and more jobs leaving the US to be sent to cheap labor markets. Thus putting the majority of Americans out of work or on the verge of unemployment. If the trend continues the only people left in the land of Liberty will be the poor and the rich who have profited from the cheap labor markets. So all you imperialist pigs think about that next time you are at Walmart each dollar you spend you are only making The RED Army Stronger!
Hasta La Victoria Siempre !!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!
Have you ever had a basic economics lesson?

Sure it's sad for some workers. However, for consumers it's ok. Prices drop so more money can be invested in other sectors, creating new employment opportunitie. Furthermore, Chinese companies will start investing in the US as well (the Indians are already doing this).

So before you write down this non-sense, go and buy yourself "a basic guide to economics" so you won't look so pathetic the next time.

Oh, and development of China in recent years is another blow for your socialist "economics". Give people more economic freedom and the standard of living increases dramatically. Same happened in Vietnam.

[colombiano]

The United States actually ran a $3 billion deficit in April in what the government calls "advanced technology products."

President of MBG Information Services, Charles McMillion says, "The United States has lost its advantage in many of our traditionally strong export sectors: automobiles, computers, information technology."

As a result, the United States is now a net importer of such high-tech products as VCRs, televisions, electrical machinery and magnetic equipment. While most of the goods that the United States is a net exporter of are, in fact, very low-tech like wheat, cotton and corn.

According to the economic theory of competitive advantage, lower wage nations should be the ones specializing in low-tech goods while leaving the high-tech production to higher wage nations. But as American multinationals shifted operations to low wage nations, like China, they also shipped American technology, production capability and expertise abroad.

Consequently, the share of China's exports consisting of machinery, electronics and transport equipment increased from 18 percent in 1994 to 43 percent by 2003. While the U.S. balance of trade in high-tech products fell from its high of $32 billion in 1997 to a deficit of $27 billion in 2003.

Advocates of free trade at all costs have also argued that the United States does not have to be concerned about the exports of high-tech or low-tech goods, since we are transitioning into a services economy.

Revised trade data released last week, however, illustrates that our nation's surplus in services deteriorated by 21 percent between 2001 and 2003, a much larger decline than was originally estimated.

Additionally, some experts say that the services surplus may actually be much smaller than the government figures suggest. Co-director of the Center for Economic and Policy Research, Dean Baker cautions, "I actually think if it had been measured accurately it would be even more than that. If you look at the data from India ... what they think they're producing for the United States is a lot more than what is showing up in our trade figures."

North America is, in fact, the largest destination for Indian tech services, accounting for 70 percent of the country's $8.9 billion in annual tech service exports. Official U.S. data, on the other hand, suggests that we only import about $300 million a year in services from India.

While many nations appear to have decreased motivation and need to purchase goods and services from the United States, foreigners continue to be interested in purchasing our assets. This is, perhaps, the most dangerous aspect of our ballooning trade deficit.

Since the U.S. trade deficit has reached nearly half a trillion dollars, we have no choice but to borrow from other nations in order to finance the debt. We do this by selling our assets, stocks and bonds to foreigners. According to the Securities Industry Association, foreign gross activity in U.S. securities grew from $198 billion in 1980 to more than $30 trillion in 2003.

Senior Fellow in Trade and Productivity at the Manufacturers Alliance, Ernest Preeg cautions that by allowing so much foreign ownership of American assets, the United States has left itself vulnerable to outside influences. Preeg questions, "What happens if these foreigners who hold our [assets] start getting out of dollar denominated financial assets, be they stocks bonds or treasury bills? That could lead to a rather disruptive decline in the value of the dollar." And he adds, "Surely when China has $400 billion of foreign exchange reserves, almost all in dollars, there is potential leverage."

Foreigners and foreign nations have far too much potential leverage against the United States. We have given away not only our manufacturing base, but also our advantage in technology and services, as well. And we have left ourselves dangerously dependent on foreign capital to fund our out-of-control trade deficit. America is, quite simply, losing its advantage. Comparative or not.

Read it and think Hoppe!

[Loknar]

China and America seem to rely on eachother more and more. America and Japan buy %50 (about %25 each) of China's exports, if both America and Japan decided to stop buying China's exports, its growth rate and GNP would fall dramatically. On the other hand, China buys less that %7 of America's export market. Sooner or later America will find another 3rd world country to set up shop in to produce our goods.

[Guerrilla22]

Originally posted by [email protected] 2 2004, 12:54 AM
I just would like to hear your opinions. China has figured out a way to in the long run crush the USA. More and more American companies are becoming dependent on Chinese imported goods and Americans don't seem to mind. Anything to save a buck or two. The US is eroding its tax base away little by little. More and more jobs leaving the US to be sent to cheap labor markets. Thus putting the majority of Americans out of work or on the verge of unemployment. If the trend continues the only people left in the land of Liberty will be the poor and the rich who have profited from the cheap labor markets. So all you imperialist pigs think about that next time you are at Walmart each dollar you spend you are only making The RED Army Stronger!
Hasta La Victoria Siempre !!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!
Not true. The thing about economics, especially the economics of capitalism and global trade is that it creates dependence on outside sources. In this case, the US economy would collapse if China cut off it's economic relationship from the US, however because the Chinese governmnet is so dependent on US investmnet in their country, China's economy would collapse also. That is why the scenario proposed by some members on this board that the US and China will end up going to war is so implausible.

[refuse_resist]

Originally posted by [email protected] 3 2004, 05:03 AM
Not true. The thing about economics, especially the economics of capitalism and global trade is that it creates dependence on outside sources. In this case, the US economy would collapse if China cut off it's economic relationship from the US, however because the Chinese governmnet is so dependent on US investmnet in their country, China's economy would collapse also. That is why the scenario proposed by some members on this board that the US and China will end up going to war is so implausible.
Indeed.

Both China and the U.S. are so dependent on eachothers economies that if one of them didn't exist or didn't function properly, that would cause the same effect for the other.

[Hoppe]

Read it and think Hoppe!

This piece is a cry for more protectionist policies. China's monetary policy is very unsound. One of these days they have to adjust this which will normalize the relationship.

Oh, and there is no way that China will ever turn back to a planned economy, so this is hardly a celebration for socialism.

[Professor Moneybags]

Big Brother is watching you.


China's communist government is to crackdown on "counter-revolutionary" mobile text messages (SMS), according to Reporters sans Frontieres (RSF).

Beijing already blocks email, internet chatrooms and access to foreign websites, deemed "subversive."

Venus info Tech, a Chinese technology firm, has produced a "realtime surveillance system' allowing authorities to check messages for keywords interpreted as politically "false" or "reactionary."

Xinhua News Agency said the technology which uses sophisticated filtering algorithms would be used to clean up "pornographic, obscene and fraudulent' phone messages.

But campaign group RSF said Chinese authorities were exploiting new technology to control "the circulation of news and information."

"The Chinese authorities are making ever greater use of new technology to control the circulation of news and information. In the past months we have been witnessing a real downturn in press freedom particularly on the internet.

"The international community should react against this hardening by the Chinese regime," RSF advised.

It is estimated that China has more than 2,800 surveillance centres for sms traffic, and employs 30,000 people to monitor and censor web content.

Nearly 220 billion text messages were sent by China's 260 million mobile phone users last year.

Good old communist freedom of speech.

[redchina]

You do not understand Chinese Government and the people at all, you had better read more books about China !

[Maynard]

China has figured out a way to in the long run crush the USA
I don't believe their aim is to crush the United States in any way and if this is thier plan, it won't work.


More and more American companies are becoming dependent on Chinese imported goods and Americans don't seem to mind
The companies in the United States aren't really becoming dependant on Chinese imported goods, because they usually own the companies which are exporting goods from China and much of this trade is inter-firm, it reduces the cost of production and the increased profits flow back to the United States. The opening up of the Chinese company has helped companies more than anything else. The American people can't do much about it but unemployment levels haven't risen substantially because of globalisation. As the people losing their jobs in the manufacturing industry may get retrained to enter into the service industry, which is expanding.


The US is eroding its tax base away little by little. More and more jobs leaving
Not particularly..if firms earn higher profits they will also be taxed and the reduced prices of goods from China will mean that US citizens real income has been raised, with the potential to consume or save, which helps investment.


Thus putting the majority of Americans out of work or on the verge of unemployment. If the trend continues the only people left in the land of Liberty will be the poor and the rich who have profited from the cheap labor markets.
That hasn't happened so far and it won't happen in the future, not on the mass scale which you have described. I don't see how that is desirable anyway..and if all the people don't have jobs, then they wouldn't be able to buy anything, so no one really could be rich.


So all you imperialist pigs think about that next time you are at Walmart each dollar you spend you are only making The RED Army Stronger!

Ha. Yeah, more likely to improve the income of Wal mart which recieved 256.3 billion in sales last year.


If china wanted to they could stop importing goods and kill the US’s economy.
No ! That would have very little effect on the American economy, all these wet dreams about American capitalism collapsing are not an excuse to be economically ignorant.


Oh, and there is no way that China will ever turn back to a planned economy, so this is hardly a celebration for socialism.
True that, it will not change in the foreseeable future. The government there I believe will be gone soon enough. Good riddance really...as Professor Moneybags article shows. The opening up of the Chinese economy and the technology it has brought will hasten the communist parties downfall.

Don't get me wrong here, I'm still a Communist bastard but often it is the case that the dislike of Capitalism will lead us to pounce on any new development as the likely destroyer of Capitalism. A more realistic and rational approach is more wise. The trade deficit, if continuing to grow as it is will present a problem for the US economy but it must be recognised that the US government won't allow this to continue to dangerous proportions.

[Saint-Just]

Originally posted by Professor [email protected] 3 2004, 10:52 AM
Big Brother is watching you.



Good old communist freedom of speech.
You are right. Marxist-Leninists are against universal free speech, what point are you attempting to make?

Although, China is not socialist.

[Capitalist Imperial]

Originally posted by [email protected] 2 2004, 05:48 PM
If china wanted to they could stop importing goods and kill the US’s economy.
That would not "kill" the US economy. Al Queda destroyed the US economic headquarters, and that did not kill the US economy.

You gadflies that keep posting about how big and bad China is goint to be, keep talking, keep posting, and keep making yourselves look stupid. China is over 1000 years old. The US is just over 200 years old and we've surpassed them in pretty much every facet. Do you really think that the US will simply capitulate to China economically? All we have to do is take away favored trade nation status, and we would slowly bleend the chinese economy to death. Also, 2nd highest GDP doesn't mean much when it is spread over 1 billion+ people. China is by far not the only cheap import source in the world, or even asia, or even the pacific rim.

China is in an economic crisis right now, and the US is keeping it afloat, not vice-versa. Go buy a paper, people.

Honestly, some of you leftist's lack of true analytical ability really is astonishing sometimes.

[Capitalist Imperial]

By the way, lets not forget that CHina is in such an economic crisis that you are only allowed to have 1 chaild, and it has to be a boy. They can't sustain their own population. Their economy is much, much more volitile and fragile that than America's.

The leftist pipe dream of China somehow dominating America someday is a pathetic and desperate delusion of grandeur used to fill the void of a defeated USSR at best, plain ignorance of economics at worst.

[DaCuBaN]

By the way, lets not forget that CHina is in such an economic crisis that you are only allowed to have 1 chaild, and it has to be a boy

Half-true... I don't know whether the law that you can only create one child per couple is still in place, but I know there is no preference in law as to the gender of the child - it's a cultural problem.