Hammer And Sickle? and Anarchy?

[_asdf]

On the "Che-Lives.com Community" banner are pictures of the Soviet Union's Hammer and Sickle and the A with a circle around it (anarchy). I understand this is a leftist site... more power to it. But Che Guevara was anti-Soviet Union. As a matter of fact, he ended up parting ways with Fidel Castro because Fidel was insistent on joining Cuba with the Soviet Union.
As far as anarchy is concerned, Che was a blatant Communist. He was the head of Cuba's Economy for a few years from what I have read. It seems to me Che was very pro-government (not American government, but government nonetheless).
This information is backed up by the Declassified CIA Documents (http://www.gwu.edu/~nsarchiv/NSAEBB/NSAEBB5/)

I have to ask, why are these pictures on this banner? They seem to be rather opposed to the ideal Che strived for.

By no means am I trying to attack this site, I would simply like an answer to this question.

[Commie-K]

The sickle and hammer represents communism, not the Soviet Union.

[Rex_20XD6]

You need to get your facts straght befor you start bashing this site.

[Rex_20XD6]

Che-lives.com

[_asdf]

Wait,
How did I bash this site? What facts do I have wrong? The Hammer and Sickle WERE on the USSR flag. Che disagreed with the USSR. The Communist Manifesto says nothing about a Hammer and Sickle.
To me, the Hammer and Sickle are much more representative of the Soviet Union than of Communism.
I did not mean to bash... I simply wanted to know why they were there.

[CubanFox]

Originally posted by [email protected] 28 2004, 05:05 PM
Wait,
How did I bash this site? What facts do I have wrong? The Hammer and Sickle WERE on the USSR flag. Che disagreed with the USSR. The Communist Manifesto says nothing about a Hammer and Sickle.
To me, the Hammer and Sickle are much more representative of the Soviet Union than of Communism.
I did not mean to bash... I simply wanted to know why they were there.
It's generally regarded as a symbol of communism. Neither the hammer nor the sickle mean anything specific about the USSR, anything inseperable from the USSR.

For example, albeit it a poor one, the blue stripe on the flag of the Gambia;
http://flagspot.net/images/g/gm.gif
signifies the River Gambia which flows through the country.

Take that stripe and put it on another flag, it's just a blue stripe.

However, take the H&S away from the USSR's flag, and it still represents communism.

[TC]

Che disagreed with the khrushchev administration, but supported lenin and stalin's administrations, which used the same hammer and sickle flag. Likewise Che supported Mao's People's China, and though there is no hammer and sickle on the PRC flag there is one on the Chinese Communist Party flag.

In either case, of the three symbols one would imagine that Che would have most strongly identified with the hammer and sickle and rejected the circle A and the red rose (the symbol of social democracy). So I don't know what your hang up is.

The red rose is a symbol even further from anarchy then the Hammer and Sickle since the red rose indicates support for the bourgeois welfare state.

[_asdf]

Ok,
I am willing to buy that the hammer and sickle represent communism in general... not the Soviet Union.
The banner makes sense if you sepearate the logo from the country.

[Roses in the Hospital]

It's important to remember that, dispite the name, this site isn't just a Che appreciation society, it's a place for 'leftist discussion.' So the sybols on the banner refer more to the ideologies we as members might hold, rather than specifically to the ideology of Che...

[Hate Is Art]

The Hammer and Sickle is a symbol of the unity between the rural peasentry and the urban peasentry (or proletariat) which was adopted by the CCCP for use in it's new flag.

[DaCuBaN]

To me, the Hammer and Sickle are much more representative of the Soviet Union than of Communism

Fair enough. I disagree.


I have to ask, why are these pictures on this banner? They seem to be rather opposed to the ideal Che strived for.


I wouldn't go as far as to say opposed... We have a broad population here, but we generally share one thing in common: respect for Ernesto Guevara. The symbols in the banner are representative of the community that inhabits this site, not of the man himself.

There are many other things that che wouldn't have liked about this site other than just the banner.

[Raisa]

Originally posted by [email protected] 28 2004, 07:05 AM
Wait,
How did I bash this site? What facts do I have wrong? The Hammer and Sickle WERE on the USSR flag. Che disagreed with the USSR. The Communist Manifesto says nothing about a Hammer and Sickle.
To me, the Hammer and Sickle are much more representative of the Soviet Union than of Communism.
I did not mean to bash... I simply wanted to know why they were there.
The sickle and hammer are just Communist, their not anything specific.

and if to you the hammer and sickle were something more, thats to you. But the meaning of the sickle and hammer isnt a subjective concept. Its absolute that they are used as a symbol to represent the workers uniting for communism.

You did not mean to bash but that is how it came out. Any way I accept your appology if you do.


This site isnt all about Che guevara and what he thought. Its an international leftist forum where people who share a common belief of the emancipation of the worker descuss and debate ideas.
The socialist rose, the anarchy symbol and the communist sickle and hammer are all signs of the left. That is why they are there.

[nakba]

Originally posted by Commie-[email protected] 28 2004, 06:47 AM
The sickle and hammer represents communism, not the Soviet Union.
the hammer, syckle AND star, represent the mighty alliance of the working class, the hammer representing the proletariat, the syckle the farmers and the start the proletarian internationalism

the image that you are all talking about is incomplete, i would even say that it doesnt represent anything, since the communist movement is related to the 3 symbols rathar than just the hammer and the syckle...


so that image is just pure revisionism of the images and symbology of the movement....

[bobby]

the start the proletarian internationalism

Do you know why the star is supposed to stand for internationalism (proletarian)? Seems kind of random.

[Nas]

yea i can see where you are coming from

its because the hammer and sickle have a bad reputation - related to the USSR and other extremist terrorist communists

those terrorists use the hammer and sickle as their flag


i hope in the future the hammer and sickle gain their good reputation back

[TylerDurdan]

The Anarchy logo can be used to represent the Anarchist who belive in no laws or goverment but every one as a comrad living together peacefuly like the Anarchist in the spanish civil war. The were killed alongside the Soviat paid for army and many indapindent communist malitia. Anarchy is very misunderstood becouse it can either stand for cahos or it can stand for communism without a goverment involved like in John Lennon's song Imagine.

[RedCeltic]

Prior to the Russian revolution, there were many symbols used by socialists. The hammer was a common symbol, sometimes it had been combined with the sickle to represent unity between worker and pesantry. The red flag, and star were also common.

Here on Che-lives in our banner we have three symbols to indicate that this is a board for all leftist thinking. The Hammer and Sickle here represents all communists, the red flower represents socialists, and the red "A" represents Anarchists.

Yes, Soviet Style communists.. or "Stalinists" may use the symbol, but it is also on Leon Trotsky's gravestone... and is used by Maoists etc.