"We are so lucky to be living in America!"

[rebelgames]

Alright... what really pisses me off (well one of the things) is when you try to explain about how the US is run by a moron. It's run by liars. Everywhere you go you see advertisements. We are so fucking brainwashed into racism that we don't even realize when we are being prejudiced. There isn't equality here. Well you get the point. Everybody here know (or I hope knows) how fucked up the US is. But when you try to explain this to people, they instantly counter with... "You are so lucky to be living here." "You have lots of nice things you wouldn't have if you lived in some third world country!" "Are you getting at communism? That just doesn't work. It's nice in theory...blah blah." I go to counter back with a well thought out articulate argument and then I am instantly so frustrated I go blank. I just end up yelling and not proving a single point. I admittedly have severe anger issues :D . But the point is... getting flustered does not get your point across. And never will.
Does this happen to any of you? Anyways have any of you ever suceeded in convincing somebody who has countered you with the "America the beautiful" argument that your point of view was correct? If so what did you tell them?
I am just very curious to know.

[The Sloth]

I understand what you're saying. It's important to remember, however, that in comparison to many parts of the world, America is, admittedly, a good place to live.

However...

1) America's wealth comes, of course, at the expense of others

2) America's wealth is partially generated by anti-intellectual attitudes such as those that force the youth to listen to brainless entertainment such as gangster and commercialized hip-hop...and as long as these things are profitable, they will never go away under capitalism

3) Racism is a problem that still lingers on today partially due to capitalism because race and social classes are inevitably intertwined (almost every black person in New York City, for example, lives in a predominantly black neighborhood that is usually worse off than the white neighborhoods), and since race is so obvious to the observer, it serves as an easy distinction between people and thus serves as a means for a. creating disunity, b. adjusting the attitudes of others when dealing with a certain race, c. keeping everyone insecure by spreading myths on sexual competition and things such as labor competition...with labor competition, it is easy to see who is taking your job, i.e. "that black man!" which reinforces prejudice in ignorant folk

4) Although America is, relatively speaking, a good place to live, the key word there is relatively. It depends on who the individual that we are speaking about is and you must also take into consideration the fact that there is always room for improvement. Almost no one will disagree with this...you only need to ask them, "should education be improved, should universal health care be provided, do we need to reduce to incentive for crime, do we need to clean up the bad neighborhoods, do people want to work at jobs that actually give them a sense of the future and security?" The easiest way of reaching these objectives is, of course, through socialism.

Everyone needs to be reminded that there is always room for improvement...it's interesting that most would agree with this, but when you openly criticize America for not improving, you have all the emotional reactions taking place in the head of the nationalistic patriot that automatically condemns you for being a no-good terrorist that should "go back to where you came from" (especially if you're black and he tells you to go back to Africa and "see if you like it there better!"....haaa!!)

[Y2A]

Your lucky to have food everyday and not have to worry about constant wars in your neighborhood over tribal conflicts. YOU are lucky. But of course your a white suburban kid rebeling against your parents so what the hell, say what you want to say about AmeriKKKa being worse then starving.

Edit: I think that you have a misguided view of whites messor B&M. I use to be kind of the same way back when I lived in Newark. But then I moved out and met different people. Racism isn't racist, you should learn to remember that. Simply thinking that "whitey" is the enemy solves nothing.

[Stapler]

Originally posted by [email protected] 27 2004, 03:56 PM
Your lucky to have food everyday and not have to worry about constant wars in your neighborhood over tribal conflicts. YOU are lucky. But of course your a white suburban kid rebeling against your parents so what the hell, say what you want to say about AmeriKKKa being worse then starving.
Ah yes, tribal warfare, ever heard of gangs?

We should all uppity and move to Canada, where marijuana has been decriminalized, file sharing is legal, and we have nationalized healthcare - the real kicker, it's effective. AND billboards are restricted. actually, the united states is a wonderful place to live, the best in the world - assuming you've got enough money to buy a house in northern california and drink wine all day without being bothered by the 'socialist' tax system adopted by other developed countries.

[Y2A]

So let me get this strait....you are comparing tribal warfare to U.S gangs. Therefore, the United States is as dangerous as a slum in africa....right :rolleyes:

[Stapler]

You have a point. However, the united states is a very, very dangerous place. There's a reason people choose to live in gated communities with armed guards.

[Y2A]

holy shit your so fucking cool! i like totally agree! why can't my burgerious parents share the wealth they earn equally! it's like so not cool! down with the burgerious! che rules! and anti-flag!

[ÑóẊîöʼn]

Refute his points instead of being so fucking childish :angry:

[Y2A]

What "points" did he make? That an african slum is safer and more prosperous then the U.S? Do I even have to argue that "point"? I'm sure that the people in the Darfur region of Sudan have it much better then us messor Noxion.

[ÑóẊîöʼn]

If you feel that there is nothing to argue with in a post, fine.

Just don't waste electrons with spam.

[Y2A]

More electrons are wasted on the "U.$=Evil" "What did Che do for his birthday" etc..... irrelevent crap that is posted by suburban rich pinkos throughout these boards.

[The Sloth]

Your lucky to have food everyday and not have to worry about constant wars in your neighborhood over tribal conflicts. YOU are lucky. But of course your a white suburban kid rebeling against your parents so what the hell, say what you want to say about AmeriKKKa being worse then starving.

Edit: I think that you have a misguided view of whites messor B&M. I use to be kind of the same way back when I lived in Newark. But then I moved out and met different people. Racism isn't racist, you should learn to remember that. Simply thinking that "whitey" is the enemy solves nothing.

First of all, I don't know if your post was directed at me, but I am not a "suburban kid", nor am I "rebelling against my parents." I live in Brooklyn, New York City and my parents could care less about my political ideology, so I don't even discuss it with them.

Second of all, I didn't even say that America is such a horrible place to live. To the contrary, I said that it is relatively a great place to live. However, this does not mean that we should not criticize the imperfections that do exist, i.e. capitalism.

So let me get this strait....you are comparing tribal warfare to U.S gangs. Therefore, the United States is as dangerous as a slum in africa....right

I'm sure Africans would much rather live in the projects of Crown Heights or Harlem than the slums of Nigeria, for example.

However, just because conditions are better doesn't mean that conditions are satisfactory. When American men, women and children slaved away at factories for 14 hours a day, I'm sure it can be considered better than being unemployed and starving. Following your logic through, I would have criticized them for complaining, then.

[Y2A]

B&M that post was not directed at you. The only part that was directed at you was the part that starts and ends with "Edit:..........enemy solves nothing."

[elijahcraig]

Racism isn't racist
What does that mean?

[Y2A]

Anyone can be a racist or become racist.

[elijahcraig]

I didn't get that from your first post.

I must have reread it, or you're just an idiot.

[The Sloth]

"Simply thinking that "whitey" is the enemy solves nothing."

I couldn't agree with you more.

Actually, my philosophy follows more so on the line of the Black Panther Party when it comes to the whole "white" question:

Malcolm X, his last-year ideological transformation not withstanding, preached nationalism and refused to differentiate between progressive and regressive whites.

This is the case of "blame whitey."

The Black Panther Party, coming to power one year after Malcolm's death, sought to reverse this new mentality. Thus, they rejected all racism and refused to blame "whitey"...actually, part of their Ten Point Program had to be revised because it mistakedly used the word "white" instead of "capitalist."

They also emphasized the need for relying on oneself and not blaming everything on others. However, they also understood that most of the problems in the black community is a result of the capitalist (who just happens to be white).

The BPP and myself also argue that responsibility needs to be taken for one's actions, regardless of external factors that may pressure an individual to act in the wrong way. These external factors, however, must not be forgotten as the ultimate (but not only) cause behind forcing an individual to take the wrong path.

[Urban Rubble]

I agree with Brooklyn Mecca's first post totally.

Of course you're lucky to live in America, we have it better than a huge percentage of the population. Though, like BM said, it comes off the backs of the 3rd World.

Just be glad you aren't on the receiving end of the U.S power.

Y2A, stop being such a dick. Debate if you want, but it seems to me you haven't been able to get through a post lately without assuming everyone is a teenage, white, bourgeoise suburban kid. It's irrelevant, so debate them or shut up.

[Hiero]

People are such big tools, rebeljames your a fuck head.

1st world capitalist nations have really good living conditions for the majority of people.

BUT

There are a too large amount without healthcare in USA, workers have little workplace power and arent paid the full price of their Labor, we dont need capitalist( fuck the hard working capitalist), 1st world nations rape 3rd world nations, 1st world nations start imperialistic wars and fund many wars betwen 3rd world countires for their own benifit and no one needs to be wealthy. etc etc

So although capitalism has had some great achivements its time for revolution. Its time for communism, its time for humanity to take the next step in history.

[rebelgames]

Originally posted by [email protected] 27 2004, 03:56 PM
Your lucky to have food everyday and not have to worry about constant wars in your neighborhood over tribal conflicts. YOU are lucky. But of course your a white suburban kid rebeling against your parents so what the hell, say what you want to say about AmeriKKKa being worse then starving.

Edit: I think that you have a misguided view of whites messor B&M. I use to be kind of the same way back when I lived in Newark. But then I moved out and met different people. Racism isn't racist, you should learn to remember that. Simply thinking that "whitey" is the enemy solves nothing.
"Your lucky to have food everyday and not have to worry about constant wars in your neighborhood over tribal conflicts."

yes yes i am

"YOU are lucky."

yes yes i am

" But of course your a white suburban kid rebeling against your parents so what the hell, say what you want to say about AmeriKKKa being worse then starving."

Yeah I am an ungrateful white suburban kid. Rebeling against my parents? Yeah right. Thats where your wrong. All i really want to do is help people. But I am ungrateful and I couldnt help anybody if I tried anyways. Starving is a bad example. Im a teenage girl...I know a lot about starving. hah.

And I am stupid. And I do know nothing. And I really shouldn't even be here because I don't know shit about opression. I have money, and I have everything I could ever want. And I'm not even being sarcastic.

[rebelgames]

Originally posted by comrade [email protected] 28 2004, 09:32 AM
People are such big tools, rebeljames your a fuck head.
Yes yes I am a fuckhead.

[che's long lost daughter]

Why does Y2A think that everyone here is a rich kid rebelling against his parents?

Y2A, go ahead eat your everyday meals. Enjoy them. I know you have never experienced starvation. What, no one in America starves??? Oh yes as you said, americans have food to eat everyday but I hope you remember while you try to chew your food, your powerful country is planning to bomb every country it thinks is a threat to "freedom and democracy" (I have to puke, as if Bu$h undestands these words) and all the starving people within it. So eat your hamburger while other people eat smoke and fire.

[dopediana]

Originally posted by [email protected] 27 2004, 05:28 PM
You have a point. However, the united states is a very, very dangerous place. There's a reason people choose to live in gated communities with armed guards.
actually, that's bs. in my town we have 3 gated neighborhoods. they serve no other purpose than to give rich people a chance to truly show off their wealth and so-called social status. gated communities rarely exist in areas where they would be protecting anything. because they wouldn't make a difference.
gated communities are for the pompous pretentious wealthy.

[gummo]

Originally posted by [email protected] 27 2004, 05:28 PM
You have a point. However, the united states is a very, very dangerous place. There's a reason people choose to live in gated communities with armed guards.
Hahahahahahaha, ok, I feel better.

I have seen maybe 5 gated comunities in the US that had armed guards. That's in 30 years. The vast majority of neighborhoods in the US are NOT gated.

That's almost as good as the imaginary "Bands of hungry people roaming the streets in the US".

[DaCuBaN]

That's almost as good as the imaginary "Bands of hungry people roaming the streets in the US".

Oh look, Gummo's never been to LA


I have seen maybe 5 gated comunities in the US that had armed guards. That's in 30 years. The vast majority of neighborhoods in the US are NOT gated

Echo....

[Guerrilla22]

I would much rather be living in oh, I don't know say Somalia. You don't realize what cushy lives we lead untill you actually visit a third worls country.

[Y2A]

Originally posted by che's long lost [email protected] 29 2004, 05:33 PM
Why does Y2A think that everyone here is a rich kid rebelling against his parents?

Y2A, go ahead eat your everyday meals. Enjoy them. I know you have never experienced starvation. What, no one in America starves??? Oh yes as you said, americans have food to eat everyday but I hope you remember while you try to chew your food, your powerful country is planning to bomb every country it thinks is a threat to "freedom and democracy" (I have to puke, as if Bu$h undestands these words) and all the starving people within it. So eat your hamburger while other people eat smoke and fire.
*tear caresses Y2A's cheek*

[Y2A]

Originally posted by [email protected] 30 2004, 01:45 AM
I would much rather be living in oh, I don't know say Somalia. You don't realizze what cushy lives we lead untill you actually visit a third worls country.
Indeed. And they just spit on what millions of people dream of to sound "cool". Why don't you guys just give up your citizenship to poor Africans that would realize how lucky they are to live in the states.

[rebelgames]

Just to clarify something...I never said that I think that I'd rather live in those places. But what I was trying to say was ... people assume that because our country has so many opportunities that there is no reason to fix it any further. That was my whole point.
I still stand by the idea that I am a fuckhead. I still stand by the idea that I am just a stupid white girl living suburbia who doesn't know anything. But you misunderstood what I was trying to say in the first place.

[Y2A]

See, the thing is that there are many opportunities here. I know many immigrants that are happy because they can see there kids be the first in there family to go to college, happy because they can send money back to their native countries to help there extended family, etc.... I know this because I am the son of immigrants, I grew up in a community of immigrants, I know other immigrants that get this opportunity aswell. I'm not trying to be a "dick" and attack you. I just do so because I am driven to the point where nothing I say matters and I just want to piss people off. I see so many white americans that say "America is sh!t" and talk about urban ghettos like they actually lived in one. Just try and understand where I am coming from.

[Guerrilla22]

I don't usually agree with Y2A, but here i have to. The thing is hear in America there is at least the following things: an ample supply of food, modern medicine, places to go if you are indeed in need. To say that there are places in America that are just as bad as some places in other parts of the world is just laughable.

I've spent a good amount of time in Central America. There are street gangs down there that make any street gang here in America look harmless. I've seen villages that were literally jusst made out of whatever garbage people could find and Central America would be considered a great place to live compared to some places in Africa.

[rebelgames]

i thought my faith in humanity could go no lower. it has. you have not hear one word that i have written. i always expect too much.

[The Sloth]

Again, the capitalists are staying in their "safe zones".

The second damn post on this thread came from myself, and it mentioned your empty arguments about "well, it's better to live in America than....." Of course, no patriot here wants to reply?

[Sabocat]

SS-NaziRabbi
worst-opinion-ever
raphael
thatCHEr
kylieII

How many times do you have to get banned before you get it?

[gummo]

Originally posted by [email protected] 29 2004, 08:22 PM

Oh look, Gummo's never been to LA



Echo....
Don't ever want to either. Way to liberal for me. Maybe if they would take some personal responsibility for their actions and get off of their ass's they could put food in their mouths.

[Guerrilla22]

Originally posted by [email protected] 30 2004, 07:57 AM
i thought my faith in humanity could go no lower. it has. you have not hear one word that i have written. i always expect too much.
And what exactly are you trying to get at? You,ve mentioned that you dislike the argument that it is better to live in America than..., but you never actually explain why this is a bad argument.

[DaCuBaN]

people assume that because our country has so many opportunities that there is no reason to fix it any further

Indeed... It's all about selfishness. I've come to believe there are those who can be saved, but the vast majority, regardless of the climate, would resist any change - positive or otherwise.


[Los Angeles is] Way to liberal for me. Maybe if they would take some personal responsibility for their actions and get off of their ass's they could put food in their mouths

I wonder... have you ever even stepped out of suburbia? You evidently haven't worked a day in your life... either that or you're a troll

Be careful what you choose to admit ;)

[gummo]

Originally posted by [email protected] 30 2004, 07:10 PM

Indeed... It's all about selfishness. I've come to believe there are those who can be saved, but the vast majority, regardless of the climate, would resist any change - positive or otherwise.



I wonder... have you ever even stepped out of suburbia? You evidently haven't worked a day in your life... either that or you're a troll

Be careful what you choose to admit ;)
Jobs I have held.

At 14 I started working at McDonalds then moved up in the world and started slinging pizzas. Did that for a year or so and then worked at Arbys. After a small period of time at Checkers I started working at Long John Silvers. Worked my way up to a shift manager and also started slinging boxes at UPS at night to help pay my way through college. I was about 21 at this time. Drove a taxi in downtown Atlanta for a while and started working at CompUSA. Had several years that I would hardly pay my rent and feed myself but I didn't start hating the world for it. CompUSA helped me get my foot in the door of the tech field and after about a year I got a job taking phone calls at Bellsouth.net. Finished my schooling and went to work for Bellsouth Yellow Pages.

Your just refuse to see that there are lots of people in this country that do become successful without having rich parents. I guess it totally fucks up your 'I am a loser but it's not my fault' theory.

[DaCuBaN]

My apologies gummo - looking back my post to you was nothing but an attack - that was uncalled for.


Jobs I have held

You're own story isn't too different from my own (except the fact that we've done it from different sides of the pond). I started working as a potwasher in a restaurant in my hometown at 14 then migrated to a convenience store the following year (with a 30% hike in wages) where I stayed whilst I finished my schooling. I then did about 18 months as a garden labourer whilst working night shifts in a petrol station, and when i was 17 I sold plumbing goods to the trade. I continued there until I was 19 when I got a job as a forecasting assistant at the local meteorology office, and now at 20 I'm an IT tech in the same firm. I left the job at the petrol station about 6 weeks ago.


there are lots of people in this country that do become successful without having rich parents

Indeed there are, but for those that succeed there are another ten lining the gutters of your streets and inhabiting the trailer parks.


I guess it totally fucks up your 'I am a loser but it's not my fault' theory

I started this saying that I attacked you, so I'm assuming this is a rebuttal. You surely can't believe that this is the reason that I believe in ... well to be honest it's probably anarchism - I don't follow a specific ideology, I try to apply my own thoughts ... I do quite well out of this system despite the fact I've put off continuing to further education - but there are far too many who suffer as a result of the opulence I could live in for me to sit comfortable.