Daniel Ortega and the Sandinistas

[CubanFox]

What do you all think of them?

They got rid of the appalling Somoza family, and set up a free government in Nicaragua.

I believe that many of Danny's social policies were very solid: Nationalisation of property owned by the Somozas and their collaborators
Wildlife conservation
Equality for women
Nicaraguan Sign Language
Alternative energy programmes
Conservation of the rainforest
Free unionisation for workers
Nationalisation of natural resources, things like mines
Mandatory, free high school
Protection of rights such as free speech, freedom of religion and freedom of political organisation
Land reform

The institution of the Comités de Defensa Sandinista was an excellent and efficient way to control the looting and chaos that occurs post-revolution, not to mention organising recreation and food distribution.

However, the treatment of prisoners at the Sandinista-run Las Tejas prison were disgusting. According to Amnesty International, prisoners beaten, deprived of sleep and tortured with electric shocks. They were denied food and water and kept in dark cubicles that had a surface of less than one square meter, known as chiquitas. These cubicles were too small to sit up in and had no sanitation and almost no ventilation.


Perhaps Danny Ortega was not a pure Marxist. But does this make him a bad leader?

[elijahcraig]

I support their revolution and their Marxist-Leninist ideas.

I don't believe the accusations flung at them.

[LuZhiming]

Originally posted by [email protected] 26 2004, 11:40 AM
However, the treatment of prisoners at the Sandinista-run Las Tejas prison were disgusting. According to Amnesty International, prisoners beaten, deprived of sleep and tortured with electric shocks. They were denied food and water and kept in dark cubicles that had a surface of less than one square meter, known as chiquitas. These cubicles were too small to sit up in and had no sanitation and almost no ventilation.


Perhaps Danny Ortega was not a pure Marxist. But does this make him a bad leader?
You got this from the Wikipedia article. I'm skeptical about it, the person who posted that article still hasn't bothered to post the report he/she supposedly got it from. That article originally in addition to this "fact" said that there were tens of thousands of political prisoners, again mentioning Amnesty International, but not citing a single report. The originally article also didn't even bother to list all of those reforms of the Sandinistas, and ignored the election of 1984. The article from the very beginning has been both vague and biased.

And to say something specifically on the Sandinista atrocities against Miskitos, they were real, there were something like 80 people killed by the Sandinistas. And that was wrong and a mistake, but objectively I really do believe it's accurate to label it as a mistake. It's worth recalling that Miskitos were encouraged to rebel by the CIA, who lied to them with promises of independence. And autonomy is incidentally what started that conflict.

Just for the sake of accuracy, I would like to point out the fact that in the 1990 election, and the most recent one, the U.S. threatened Nicaraguans with 'bad relations' (we should know, and Nicaraguans certainly know from history what that means), and in the 1990 election the U.S. aside from campaign donations to the opposition parties, bribed voters to pick Chamorro, as well as promising aid if Chamorro won. The elections were meaningless.

My opinion of the Sandinistas was that they were a progressive force who were finally beginning to make some of the changes so needed in a desperate country like Nicaragua. I tend to agree with the founder of Costa Rican Democracy, Jose Figueres, that for perhaps the first time, Nicaragua had a government that cared about its people, and that they deserved to be left alone from U.S. aggression. In the early years of the Sandinista Revolution, there were excellent advancements, particularly in health. But just as people like Noam Chomsky predicted at the time, the U.S.-Contra terrorist war plus the economic strangulation succeeded in halting the advancements of the Sandinistas, and of course it directly killed about 30,000-40,000 people. They were never given a fair chance. And we can all see what the result of, what I would call, the overthrow of the Sandinistas has created. Nicaragua is battling out with Guatemala every year to be the second poorest country in the hemisphere (Haiti being first), with "free markets" Nicaragua is desperately poor and miserable.

[synthesis]

Do you have any links or information on what exactly occured during the Moskito incident? I've tried researching it but for some reason I come up with nothing. I thought it had something to do with the Sandinistas "relocating" the Moskitos?

Maybe not.

[elijahcraig]

I've emailed Chomsky about the Moskito Indians (I had read something about them in one of his books). He basically says that the so-caleld "relocation" was the result of heavy imperialist-backed contra attacks on these people, and many of the leaders of the tribes were allied with the contras as well. Some were obviously injured during this, but to say it was the "Sandinistas 'relocating'" that did this...it's just pure propaganda.

[Urban Rubble]

The Sandinistas were great. One of the most admirable of all revolutionary Socialist movements I've ever studied. Shit, even one of Regan's aides said they were one of the most progressive governments that Latin America had seen in recent history.

[praxis1966]

Agreed wholeheartedly. As far as I'm concerned, the Sandanistas were the only pure communist experiment that has ever occured. Unlike China, the Soviet Union, and many others who were merely self-perpetuating autocracies masquerading as revolutionary and communist, the Sandanistas were democratic in both the economic and socio-political spheres. Of the discussions I've had with EneMe (who should know since she is from the region) this was probably the ultimate cause for their downfall. Instead of jailing former members of the Somoza regime, they allowed them voting and office-holding rights. Ideally this is what should be done in a post-power siezure situation in the interests of equanimity and egalatarianism, but it probably left enough wiggle room for the Contras and the CIA to provide for the Sandanista regime's undoing.

[synthesis]

Originally posted by [email protected] 27 2004, 01:45 PM
I've emailed Chomsky about the Moskito Indians (I had read something about them in one of his books). He basically says that the so-caleld "relocation" was the result of heavy imperialist-backed contra attacks on these people, and many of the leaders of the tribes were allied with the contras as well. Some were obviously injured during this, but to say it was the "Sandinistas 'relocating'" that did this...it's just pure propaganda.
Interesting, I don't suppose you could post the e-mail itself, could you?

[Nothing Human Is Alien]

A good friend of mine was born in Nicaragua in 1983, her and her mother moved to the US about eight years later. She's told me many things about her memories, and the constant fighting.

She supports the Sandinistas and dislikes the current president very much so. Her mother however is very indifferent to either side, and sees both the contras and nicaraguas as violent movements; it is my opinion that she never really understood the ideology of either force.

[elijahcraig]

Interesting, I don't suppose you could post the e-mail itself, could you?

I may or may not have it. If it was on my excite account, then I won't have it, as a virus whiped out all of my bulk mail. And if it is on my hotmail account, it may be there.

If not, someone could just email him about it, or I could, as he'd give the same answer.

[Louis Pio]

The big problems with the Sandinistas was that they didn't take control over the economy and that's what finished them off. Instead of once and for all striking a blow against the bourgiosie they let them regroup.
This is an important lesson to learn, especially since Venezuela are in a somewhat similar situation.

[socialistfuture]

I support the Sandanista revolution. Its asnt perfect - revolutions never are.
they made mistakes - and they admitted that. one was how they dealt with some of the indians - moving them so they wouldnt join any counter-revolutionary groups (contra or others).

in the end yankee funded groups proved too much for the sandanistas to take on in the long term - there economy and stability was sabotaged by america and its mercenaries.

still it showed revolution was possible - Cuba was not an exception to the rule in the americas it showed what was possible - but it could not remain in isolation - neither could nicaragua - it was constantly attacked on its borders. In the end the task was too great and the struggle remains .. another page in the tomb of history waiting to be re-written....

REVOLUTION IN OUR LIFETIME!!!!!!