In our lifetimes?

[CubanFox]

I'd like to ask you all a question. Put the blind hope on hold for just a moment and tell me what you really think.

Do you think we will live to see the revolution?

I'm not too sure myself: if it didn't happen in the 60's, what hope do we have in the bland, consumerist 21st century?

Note that I'm not doubting that there will ever be a revolution. There will be. Conditions will change over the centuries.

As Lenin said, "imperialism is the highest stage of capitalism". We've just got to cool our heels for however long that highest stage lasts.

[Louis Pio]

Of course we can be able to see some. Things are heating up in Latin America and in Europe as well. Capitalism has shown no way out for the oppressed of this world.
What it depends on is how we act, but a plus is that we don't have the big stalinist partymachine to fuck things up anymore

[Fidelbrand]

"imperialism is the highest stage of capitalism" ?

I think it was going on for ages, since people have boats, enabling them to travel across oceans to exploit the self-sufficient natives in various countries. Lenin ....... adios...^)^

Will we live to see the revolution?
No. It's because globalization has set capitalism in the forefront stage of human civilization in this era. This is the adolescence of capitalism... lets just hope it is a short one~ =_=..

[RedAnarchist]

We may not, but lets act so that our great grandchildren may see it.

[Louis Pio]

I think it was going on for ages, since people have boats, enabling them to travel across oceans to exploit the self-sufficient natives in various countries. Lenin ....... adios...^)^


You should maybe try to read the book before judging it?
Imperialism is a part of capitalism and those economic conditions it brings. It's not imperialism in that sense when a feudal warlord makes war.
The book looks at the concentration of capital and industry which has only gotten worse since it was written.

[Kez]

quality book, it becomes more and more true as time goes by.
genius

[Fidelbrand]

Originally posted by [email protected] 25 2004, 06:44 PM

You should maybe try to read the book before judging it?
Imperialism is a part of capitalism and those economic conditions it brings. It's not imperialism in that sense when a feudal warlord makes war.
The book looks at the concentration of capital and industry which has only gotten worse since it was written.
i read <Detskaia bolezn "levizny" v kommunizme> & <Imperialism and world economy> and sure i understand what you are refering from Lenin.

just that i don&#39;t agree with the "imperialism is the highest stage of capitalism" thing as i have mentioned. Imperialism exist long before capitalism (i m talking in economic sense too, not only wars feudal warlords had, infact , both often spur concurrently), and imperialism of course is part of capitalism... that&#39;s why i don&#39;t think it is the highest stage of capitalism, hope you know what i m trying to convey. :huh:

[Pawn Power]

Originally posted by [email protected] 25 2004, 02:41 PM


Do you think we will live to see the revolution?


i hope so&#33;&#33;&#33;

[redstar2000]

In my opinion, those who are now in their late teens or early twenties and live in (or happen to be visiting) western Europe have a very good chance of seeing proletarian revolution in their lifetimes...though you might well be as old as I am now before it happens. That&#39;s not a guarantee that it will win...just that you&#39;ll almost certainly see the attempt.

My prognosis for the North America is less optimistic...perhaps by the end of this century at the earliest.

In other parts of the world, capitalism is not as well-developed...so successful proletarian revolution is less likely, which doesn&#39;t mean it may not be attempted anyway.

Please be reminded of the speech that Lenin made in Switzerland about "old comrades" (like himself) not living long enough to see the revolution in Russia -- I believe it was delivered in the fall of 1916.

:redstar2000:

The Redstar2000 Papers (http://www.redstar2000papers.fightcapitalism.net)
A site about communist ideas

[Commie-K]

I&#39;m keeping a positive attitude about it. It could happen in my lifetime. Unless I die early, I&#39;ve got another 50 or 60 years of life in me, alot can happen in that time frame.

[The Feral Underclass]

Originally posted by [email protected] 25 2004, 04:41 PM
Do you think we will live to see the revolution?
Maybe?

I think it&#39;s a question of how long capitalism can continue to reinvent itself?

I hope that the revolutionary left can continue to build to a point where we can pose a threat to capitalism when the time comes. We just have to keep fighting.

[Red Flag]

I&#39;m not sure I understand the question. We&#39;ve seen many revolutions, both in recent years and currently, granted many have failed.

Are we speaking of some immense international revolution that will occur simaltaenously?

[Snitza]

No, I do believe we&#39;re discussing &#39;the&#39; revolution that DOESN&#39;T bounce back to capitalism(or pre-capitalism&#33;) and that is not confined to one country. International, yes, because without an abundance of resources, socialism in one country makes life very difficult for everyone.

And the masses are the people we are looking out for.

[Guerrilla22]

Another good question is where would the revolution take place. Certainly the current conditions in the United States are not of that which could facilitate a socialist revolution. I&#39;d say there&#39;s a higher probability that a revolution could take place in western Europe (perhaps Greece) or in Latin America, of course you have to factor in that the US will definitely be there to try to crush any such attempt at revolution.

[Subversive Pessimist]

The problem is that you wait for someone else to do the job. You got to start yourselves. Gather people. The communists on this board alone are enough to conquer a country in Latin America. Get my point? We could do it on our own. We communists on this very board, is all there is needed to start a revolution. Don&#39;t wait for someone else to do it, start yourselves.

Peace and love,
Justice

[Cheech06]

I agree with justice. Gather people in ur community. A revolution will take place in our life times&#33; Latin america, here i come&#33;&#33;

[CubanFox]

Originally posted by "Justice"+--> ("Justice")The communists on this board alone are enough to conquer a country in Latin America[/b]

You&#39;ve got to be joking. What, a hundred communists? Take on a country of 13 million like Guatemala?


"Cheech06"
I agree with justice. Gather people in ur community. A revolution will take place in our life times&#33; Latin america, here i come&#33;&#33;

For your own sake, don&#39;t go to Latin America and try to start a revolt on your own. You&#39;ll end up being tortured in a government gaol.

[Monty Cantsin]

i say yes, in my own country Polarization of society is ever growing and people know were we are headed – though same people find it hard to shake the habit of voting the same way their mummy and daddy did and thus havening no real political consciousness. Even though that sounds bad the political consciousness of the youth is growing and for the adults some are coming around.

[Subversive Pessimist]

You&#39;ve got to be joking. What, a hundred communists? Take on a country of 13 million like Guatemala?

Or 8 million like Bolivia, sure. Fidel started the revolution in Cuba with 85, I think.

[CubanFox]

Originally posted by [email protected] 28 2004, 07:47 PM
Or 8 million like Bolivia, sure. Fidel started the revolution in Cuba with 85, I think.
Ah, but Fidel was a Cuban who was fighting against a dictator that just about everyone loathed.

I&#39;m going to take a guess and say that you&#39;re an American. America is causing a lot of Latin America&#39;s problems, why would a nation rise up and overthrow their American-funded leaders under the command of an American rebel?

And besides, what makes your revolution particularly attractive? Why would Rodrigo the peasant support your army and not the government&#39;s army? The government will give Rodrigo some food for his family if he betrays you. Hungry farmer + rebels = dead rebels. "Peasants are always with the forces of power and strength", said Che.

What a lot of people, indeed, indeed even Che himself, have mistakenly thought is that the Cuban revolutionary model would work in, say, Bolivia.

The concept of a small group of ardent activists who would form, as Che put it, the "seed corn of the revolution", worked spectacularly in Cuba in 1959, but failed just as spectacularly in the rest of Latin America.

Take the Movimiento Revolucionario Túpac Amaru in Peru. Since their foundation in 1983, they&#39;ve lost public support, imprisonment of their leaders, and infighting. The US trained Peruvian counterterrorist network have diminished their ability to carry out just about any form of revolutionary activity.

And the most crippling blow to grassroots revolution is the collapse of the Eastern Bloc. In the 1970&#39;s, the RAF received funding and weapons from the East German Stasi, and the MPLA in Angola support from the USSR.

But as of the 1990&#39;s, that&#39;s all gone. China, as far as I know, has never been terribly concerned with funding rebel groups around the world, and Cuba, Vietnam and Laos simply can&#39;t afford it.

A poor situation, really.

[Subversive Pessimist]

I&#39;m not an American. I&#39;m European.
Yes, a poor situation. I think I get your point.
You can&#39;t rely on peasents, or natives to join the revolution. Because of the technological developments the last 30-40 years, a revolution, even in a poor country, would need a lot of more men.
It&#39;s not impossible though. And Cuba gives some help to FARC....

[Cheech06]

Dont lose hope cubanfox. Since u mention that they fought against a dictator who everyone hated, well...maybe we could start a war against a hated dictator and from that liberated land, we will have enough strengh to launch other revolutions in latin america. But im sure u.s. will have to say somethin about it.

[Essential Insignificance]

I haven’t as yet, undertaken a solemn study of the functioning of different modern capitalist nations globally…but I shall present my basic judgments nonetheless.

I have strong credence that we will witness proletarian revolution in the south European countries; Italy, Greece, Spain etc in the next 30-50 years; to make a tentative inference. And conceivably the Scandinavian nations also; but from some observations, I sense that they have developed a strong "socialist mentality", and this may hinder any revolutionary movements then progress them.

And I deem, as one goes, the rest would almost immediately render the mass exploitation and alienation of the capitalist mode of production obsolete and antiquated. Thus the social relations of production will outgrown; beyond anything that as seen before and submit the modern day productive powers superseded.

[cccpcommie]

Ok listen...we must not be hippicrits.the only way to see capitalism fail is to get the common person/working class. to realize communism is actually good. Everybody believes it is evil and will never work in real life. Make it happen&#33; make the people understand. we cannot take over by just bringing up dead people. lets learn from their mistakes and correct the people. we need a true revolution.the comm. party of america is sucking. why even try to start a party like that? its not going to work. what we need is to explain in full detail why america sucks so much balls. meaning, explain that this has gone far enough&#33; we cant just sit here anymore and wait for a revolution. lennin,stalin,fidel,etc. want us to truely unite&#33; not just use websites but to truely unite.Im not saying i want to start my own revolution but this right now this very minute we can say no to america. tell them no&#33; i must go watch family guy ill be back 2 moro :-) UNITE&#33; take charge&#33;

[CubanFox]

Originally posted by [email protected] 2 2004, 01:37 PM
the only way to see capitalism fail is to get the common person/working class. to realize communism is actually good. Everybody believes it is evil and will never work in real life. Make it happen&#33; make the people understand.
How exactly do you go about doing that?

I thought about converting Redstar&#39;s High School Commie&#39;s Guide (http://www.che-lives.com/forum/index.php?showtopic=25500) thread in Practice into a leaflet and dropping it from an aeroplane, but I can&#39;t afford either an aeroplane nor a printing press.