Confused - Ratm...

[Guest]

I am young and only just discovering my political views, so please excuse my ignorance...

anyways,

From what I gather socialists think that all business and property should be owned by the goverment and distributed out evenly to everyone, to reduce poverty.

Capitalists basically think that everything should be privately owned, so that it is every person for themselves. If I am going on the wrong track please correct me...

But to the point...I listen to Ratm and they are apparently socialists. What gets me is that they sing about freedom and opposing the goverment. But if America was a communist country, wouldn't there just be more government control and less freedom?

[Nateddi]

No

You see, Guest, it isn't natural for capitalism and [great] freedom co-exist. I believen the song "freedom" has a video depicting a Native American village evicted, and political prisoner Leonard Peltier taken away. Capitalists reduce freedom...... greatly. From the pre-capitalist times we had slaves, than after the industrial revolution, we started to become greedy because of all the opportunity to make money. In the process we kicked out Indians so we can have more land in the Wester Hemisphere. We have to expand. Great freedom.
In the modern day, capitalism is restricting freedom as well. The raisethefist.com host was evicted from his home and jailed for several weeks.............. until they found nothing on him. Our 'free and independant' media is owned by the world's biggest corporation. I have been doing nothing but watching them (for fun), and when I first read a newspaper after all that time, I realized how much stuff they choose not to say, instead focus on what makes money in this timeperiod (war, etc). Our two major political parties have no [practical] difference, both are convinced capitalists, both take soft money from wealthy donors. 45,000,000 Americans are living without healthcare, thanks to money hungry HMOs. We are the only [developed] country still lagging behind with such a healthcare policy.
There isn't going to be much freedom, Guest, when every living commodity is going to be distributed on a for-profit basis.

Guest, Ratm does not want a neo-USSR. Its very easy to maintian freedom in a socialist/communist country. The only government control which can be imposed is the government control/ownership of industries. The government would own the majore means of production, and the money would be redistributed without a profit. Goverment may or may not own smaller industries, they may just control them to keep out greedy practices. The freedom isn't individual which is restricted, its the corporate freedom. There will no longer be CEOs who move their companies to Mexico to pay workers less and make a bigger profit to expand into other industries. This ultimately will create even more individual freedom, considering that the individual would be free from the corporation. Most socialists these days are very libertarian (not to be confused with the Libertarian Party, - those are rightwingers). Socialists have a general tendancy to loosen the laws on drugs, on sex, and on any victimless crime.

[sabre]

well put, nateddi! one of the best explanations ive read in a while :) p.s. nate why havent you been on AOL lately?

[Kingnothing]

Hats off to you Nateddi. Excelent reply. You destroyed the most common anti communist argument whcich is the loss of freedom. I totally agree with you.

[flames of the flag]

hey
capitalists who think they are free are stupid.
Sure free to wear nikes, free to drink coke, free to watch larry king. Meanwhile they arent free to hold a sign at a g8 summit without getting arrested.
Some freedom.
By the way kingnothing, the crapitalists you talk to must be more intelligent then the ones i do, cause the most common argument i get is "duh....you like standing in line?",
-flames

(Edited by flames of the flag at 8:00 pm on April 6, 2002)

[honest intellectual]

In the US you have freedom of speech......... until people start to listen to you

Guest, socialism means more state control of industry and the means of production, but greater freedom for the people.
You always hear capitalists talking about the 'free market' which exploits and oppresses the workers
After all, it's people who have rights, not industry.

[Nateddi]

HI did you get the avatar I sent you?

[honest intellectual]

Yup, I'll hook it up now,
thanx a lot, comrade

(Edited by honest intellectual at 10:22 pm on April 6, 2002)

[red senator]

Excellent reply Nateddi. The "limited freedom" argument is all I get from cappies, I have had trouble explaining it to them but now that you put it into words, I can shut some ignorant cappie mouths.

[Angie]

Kudos to Nateddi. :)

[deimos]

perfect reply

[El Brujo]

Quote: from Nateddi on 11:09 pm on April 6, 2002
Socialists have a general tendancy to loosen the laws on drugs, on sex, and on any victimless crime.


Thats true. Notice how in Spain, Holland and Sweden (moderate socialist countrys) they are very liberal about those kinds of things and have porn on regular TV, selling it in stands in the street, etc. In the U.S., you can't see private parts on late night cable TV.

Anyhow, excellent post.

[Markxs]

yes i live in holland, and there is porn there on tv but unfortunatly i say because when you think about porn for a while. you see that the it opresses the ppl who take part in those movies. the enslavment to money makes the film makers persuay the porn acters in alter their bodies in a sick way, and make them do things they dont really want to i think. ( i read a book once on whores and porn-actress and most of them take heroin to forget about the humalition.

porn has nothing to do with loose ethics about sex, for me ppl able to be homsexual or whatever they like is that but porn is opression !