Cuba now

[nkarne69]

i was just watching a documentary on cuban daily life (in the 80's but close enough) and i was really wondering if any of y'all have ever been to Cuba, or just what everybody thinks about it. i personally think that they're the best example of a truly communist society; i've been trying to look past all the american propoganda and guess at what life is really like there. anyway i'd like to hear what everybody thinks.

[Nateddi]

I dont consider cuba communist.

And they are giving in to the free market paradise. Very slowly, not as fast as China or Vietnam, but they are doing it. Fidel really has little choise. =/

[I Will Deny You]

I don't consider Cuba to be a communist society, and it's only a paradise in terms of the weather. Fidel was never really much of a leftist and without Che everything has turned to shit. I think that if it weren't for the embargoes their economy would be doing much better, the standard of living would be raised and we'd all think about it much differently. But right now, I think of Cuba much like I think of America: A good idea to start with, but somewhere between the revolution and today the ideals that it was supposed to be founded upon were betrayed.

[RedCeltic]

“What you think of Cuba Today”? Is quite a broad question isn’t it comrade?
Well, in a place like Latin America… a place plagued with many short lived dictatorships, it is good to see that Castro is still loved by his people as much (or more) than he was during the revolution.

To consider what live in Cuba is like, you have to put it in the perspective of those living in Cuba. And not in the perspective of a Cuban American, or capitalist idealist saying, “But … think of the money we made, and still could be making with the casinos!”

No, I myself have never been to Cuba, but I’ve been to St. Martin, St. Thomas, Nassau, Bermuda, Jamaica, etc when I was in in abject poverty. Living in tin shacks that blow down once or twice a year as hurricanes blow through. For most of the people on these islands, basically all of their economy comes from trade with cruse ship vacationers. And in places like St. Thomas and Jamaica, one learns quickly that a life of crime is basically the only opportunity to rise out of poverty.

So this is what Cuba would have been like, if still a resort for the rich. And, is it any wonder that most of the Cubans who have left Cuba are lighter skinned, and most still living there are the darker skinned Cubans?

As far as Fidel Castro is concerned, I think he’s doing a great job. I applaud all of his recent speeches, and am epically interested in his recent theory of “Christian Communism”….

[Revolution Hero]

Cuba is socialist state and it has to develop a lot in order to reach communism.
Fidel is true leader and great dictator. The dictatorship in Cuba is a necessity , because all enemies are around and waiting for the chance to overthrow the political regime with a communist ideology. The main enemy is USA, but the US government don't see the danger of having socialist neighbour.
Cuba is an example to all the countries of Latin America on how the revolution can win and what a society can be. I have seen one of the post of Mexican leftist demonstrators saying: " Cuba si, Yankies no!" and there was the picture of Che on it. So, Cuba is something that makes masses of all Latin America not to give up and fight for the great ideals, something that shows them the victory of proletariat and serves as the great stimule for the revoltuionary actions.

[LeftoverAnimal]

I totaly agree with that, I am going to Cuba in the Summer holidays which should be nice. I think Castro has done a great job in turning a country that was once a puppet to american business to a thriving independent island, the only thing in the way are the god damn trade embargos! I dont know if anyone has ever heard of the Cuban boxer Teofilo Stevens who was around in the 60's/70's, he was said to be as good as Ali and was offered a signing by an american coach to come and box in the pro leaugues in america (all cuban leagues are amateur) but Teofilo declined the offers because he loved his country and he loved what castro was about, this just shows that castro is doing a good job and that people like living in Cuba! Teofilo is a fascinating man and still lives in havana today still loving Castros cuba!

[Natalenko]

AHAHAHAH! laughing at what IWDY said!
Fidel was never really a leftist! AHAHAHAHA! he was more left wing that che! che was so cruel to suspected counter-revolutionaries, he was very dominant and insistant a lot of the time, whereas fidel would listen and get the general view of the whole group.

And america was a good idea to start with?
i suspect you mean white america, well columbus founded america as a brit, which is/was a monarchy, and still trying to stay feudalist, so capitalism, was just the next revolution from that, which was brought to america, and if your saying that 16-17th century capitalism is a good idea to start with, then you are SO wrong!

[oconner]

I agree, I think that Communism has worked very well in Cuba.
I would like to go there and I'm saving my money but *sniff* I don't have much :)

[I Will Deny You]

Quote: from Natalenko on 8:16 am on April 3, 2002
And america was a good idea to start with?
i suspect you mean white america, well columbus founded america as a brit, which is/was a monarchy, and still trying to stay feudalist, so capitalism, was just the next revolution from that, which was brought to america, and if your saying that 16-17th century capitalism is a good idea to start with, then you are SO wrong!
Yeah, just call me a fucking conquistador.

I meant the United States of America, which wasn't even an idea in the 16th or 17th centuries. I know that lots of the founding fathers were assholes, but plenty of them were mensches. (Franklin, etc.) And you have to look at what they were up against--of course America wasn't perfect, and I'd be the last person to say that it was, but it was relatively free. And a lot of the ideas in the Articles of Confederation, while not exactly socialist, stressed caring about the state over selfishness.

[Bakunjin]

I think it is easy for stupid America to say that Cuba is devastated while they put sanctions on her... Why don't they live them alone... Then we will see cuban economy...
VIVA CASTRO!

[kingbee]

[quote]Quote: from Natalenko on 1:16 pm on April 3, 2002
AHAHAHAH! laughing at what IWDY said!
Fidel was never really a leftist! AHAHAHAHA! he was more left wing that che!


actually, che wanted all the workers in the country to recieve the same wage- something that fidel didnt believe would work, but i do disagree with what IWFY says bout fidel (never a leftist etc).

i think cuba is possibly the country where communism is working the best- even though there are problems, other third world countries have more problems than cuba- cuba is just independent financially (well, is at the mo- lets fprget bout the dependancy on the soviets) compared to other third world countries, ie venezuela which has its oil nicked by american companies. castro is a good leader , one who has used the nationalistic tendancies to turn the people towards socialism, and against the us, something which is good (as im sure we ll all agree). i saw many people wearing elian gonzales t shirts, and also when talkin to the cubans, many "cuba si, yankee no"s were heard, and also many said how che was a great man.

many people talk about shortages, but use communism to excuse them- remember worse problems in third world captalist countries . i didnt see the free market paradise , as nateddi says, but coke is sold on the island. also, tourism is thriving, which i suppose turns it towards free markets.

[PunkRawker677]

well you guys wanted an account of someone who has actually been to cuba. So here i am.. I have been there a couple times, each time for 2 weeks to 2 months (the united states will not let me stay longer).. It is NOT as bad as it is made out to be, so it is ridiculous what people say about the island. The weather is absolutly wonderful, and the people are so very social. They are all so friendly, even the police! I once got pulled over there, and the cop just wanted to see how i was doing and to let me know that it was going to rain later in the day. anyways to the more interesting parts - people DO not starve. EVERYONE HAS ENOUGH TO EAT! some people take the food for themselves and not for their kids, but thats not the goverments fault (believe it or not, this DOES happen).. the housing conditions are not up to par. The exterior looks very antique and they have no been painted in quite a while. The interior is FINE.. everyone has running water, and bath rooms and the whole works. my uncle owns a horse farm, which is quite big.. im assumin at most a hundred acres. anyways.. people are content, to an extent of course. all necesities are available but most luxuries are not.. you can get a whole bowl of ice cream for 5 cuban cents!!! (and it was really good!!).. lol.. anyways..

[poncho]

PunkRawker

Thats about how I would describe it! Some buildings look straight out of NY ghetto but you go inside and you find nice furniture, wood floors and warm people.

[Anonymous]

I was watching a fishing program on discovery and the guy went fishnig all over cuba, he done some other stuff aswell visited some historical stuff , but the place looked brilliant, buildings looked flashy and the old fifties cars were still there, lots of modern vans though, weather was great, ppl looked friendly and happy and there were pubs and a great social life there, its only what i seen on discovery but it convinced me to go in a couple of years.

[sabre]

what is the deal with the U.S. restricting visits. is it a two month limit? do they keep track of you and like ask you all sorts of crazy questions in customs?

[PunkRawker677]

ah.. the god damn limit..

its two months if there is a family emergency (my grandmother was sick) two weeks ONLY if you want to visit direct family..

you can also ONLY bring so much money, and spend so much money.. its really really stupid..

sending money.. well, you can send 200 dollars three times a year.. 600 a year is the maximum..

and all the Buses (the majority anyways) are mercedes!! they are soooo cool!

[fidelito]

slaut comrades......


i have wanted to go to Cuba for a couple years now ..... still working on saving the cash though.

I hear it is absolutely wonderful....great people, great food, grrrreat women and from what PR677 wrote, I can't wait .

Thank God at least a few places on earth haven't succumbed to that American shit way of life.

And by the way, IWDY, you're really a pain in the neck .....hardly ever a positive reply from you and always some fucked up case supporting american shit........I said it before - you really sound more like a CIA agent than a comrade sometimes!!! Cool Vibes Mon!

Hasta La Victoria Siempre!!!

And I'll be sure to let y'all know when I would be off to Cuba!

[wildflower8]

I am in awe by the comments made about Cuba. Cuba is undoubtedly paradise, but primarily for those with US$$. I invite any one of you to move to Cuba indefinately, without any assistance from family outside the country. GOOD LUCK! I was not born in Cuba, but my mom was. I have been many times to visit mi Cubita linda and some family.
My grandparents tried everything possible to leave Cuba in 1972. They were caught twice trying to escape Cuba via a makeshift raft with a superannuated motor given to them by a friend. My grandfather was thrown into one of Fidel's abhorrent jails to rot in a perdition until he revealed who gave them the motor to escape with. I've heard horrors about the prisons, including a cell-mate of my gradfathers'; a thirteen year old boy decided to scribble out "Socialismo o muerte" and rewrite it as "Socialismo es muerte." The boy went insane and hung himself with a sheet while the rest of the prisoners were sleeping. Now I ask you, Is paradise a place in which you cannot voice your political opinions?
My grandmother finally got the rest of her family out of Cuba about three years ago. They have endless stories of the hardships they suffered in Cuba, how they did not have food, no medicine, and their shoes had to last them at least 2 years. Oh yes!!! Cuba is paradise for those who live in Cuba. The reason one may think that Cubans have nice furniture and perhaps do not look as destitute as one might think initially, is because they have family in the United States that sends them money, clothes, furniture,ect. So basically if you don't have family outside of Cuba, you're fucked.
I agree that the US government is fucked up beyond my comprehension, and Cuba, despite the torrents of embargoes, has managed to withstand, but the people of Cuba cannot go to tourist locations, the best beaches are reserved for the tourists,and they still have to wait in line for 3 hours to get four eggs, children get one toy until they reach 3 years then it gets "recycled", the government does not provide milk for them after one year of age, and sometimes the lack of food reduces you to eat guel(which has a pestillant stench, and I swear dogs wouldn't even touch it) Would you honestly like to live here?? Sound like a good place to raise a family, right?

[IzmSchism]

thank you wildflower8, more now than ever I want to go to Cuba. I have been inspired by the Cuban Revolution, but I am still confused and ill-schooled on the present day situation on Cuba, it either seems people are blindly against Castro, or they are blindly for him and Cuba. Frankly I don't understand how so many members who while I say this with respect to you all, have most likely never been to Cuba, and only gather your opinions and assumptions from outside sources. Praise Cuba as a glowing example of the achievements of communism, et cetera....Dont get me wrong, I would fight for the rights of Cuba, before I would tak a stand for corporate America, but I feel there is so much more to the Cuban story than we know.

I am going to Cuba soon to find out as much as I can for myself. Someone was telling me today that Fidel is ranked on Forbes top 500 most wealthiest people in the world, so I researched a bit, and found that they were making this assumption based on attributiong 10% of Cuba's GDP to Fidel. But they wagered his wealth to be around 1.5 billion. ??? whats up there?? any one hear otherwise, more info to add??

[IzmSchism]

my friend just got back from Cuba, and she said that there are borders and fencing all along the resorts and beaches, if you are not a gringo with the greenbacks you anint getting in, anyone caught inside who shouldn't be in there is penalized heavily, and if you are caught selling drugs inside to the tourists, say goodnight.

[elizquierdista]

Cuba right now is veryu well off socially. The ratio of doctors to people is I think (correct me if I'm wrong) somewhere in between 12:1-20:1. They're very well off socially because everyone on that island gets fed, even the homeless. Economically, they are ruined thanks to the embargo. Isn't it a double standard? No embargo on China but there are sanctions on Cuba because its Communist.

[wildflower8]

There are lots of doctors in Cuba, but they do not have adequate resources to take care of their patients. As a result of this, the doctors have to find other ways to cure illnesses. I have an uncle in Mexico who is a surgeon, he frequents Cuba to study with the professors, he says that they are the most brilliant people he has ever met. It's funny cuz he always says that Cubans have it so great, but he wasn't born there, he is Mexican. When he goes to Cuba he spends his time in a hospital or in his five star hotel room. If all Cubans lived like that, they would have it real good.
The Cuban doctors are the most brilliant, yet sometimes they do not have enough to eat either. They might get a couple of gallons of gasoline a month to travel back and forth, but sometimes they don't even get that. I know this, not because I read it in some book, nor because a friend told me, but because I have seen it. My mom was born there, and I go there every year. I don't think it gets anymore real than that.
I encourage everyone to go to Cuba and get a glimpse of what it is like. It may not be completely accurate because Cubans have to be careful about what they disclose to you because you never know who works for the government or who is listening in. But, you could always move there with 10 US$$ in your pocket. Then you would know exactly what it's like.

[PunkRawker677]

wildflower8 -
lol.. to discredit most of what you said i will tell you right now that my Uncle Roberto Mendivil is a surgeon in cuba, and is currently teaching students in Venezuala for the next two years. Doctors actually make decent money there. For example, my uncle has an apartment which is nicely furnished and ALWAYS has enough to eat, as with everyone i have ever met there.. Doctors get treated very well in Cuba because they are considered the best in south america, and i doubt anyone will even atempt to refute that.

they dont have as good resources as the U$ does, but i wouldnt go as far as saying that its not adequate.. lets remember how high there life expectency is considering they cant even buy such medicines as aspirin.

I lived there for two years, all my family lives there, and i visit almost every year.. this is as real and as true as it gets without warping it out of context and comparing it to something like the U.S.. (try comparing Cuba to El Salvador - cuba turns out to be a fucking paradise, everyone is rich compared to the El Salvadorian people)

And "It may not be completely accurate because Cubans have to be careful about what they disclose to you because you never know who works for the government or who is listening in."
you make it seem like some kind of Orwellian horror scene, when in reality, your the one making it seem inacurate. People who work for the Goverment, or Police have no shame in telling you, and openly do, even if you dont know them. ALSO - people in private CAN talk about whatever the fuck they want.. they dont kill you or arrest you. they just dont have the right to assemble peacefully against the goverment.

You are depicting the classic "cuba is horrible compared to the U$" version, and the "Cuban police and goverment agents spy on you and vaporize you at night!".. you can go a tad bit furthur and tell the board how they teach people that 2 + 2 = 5..

i cannot stand when people warp cuba's condition so out of focus..

[wildflower8]

I don;t think it's accurate to compare Cuba to any country considering it is so different. And your uncle lives in Venezuela?? Yea, not Cuba. And most Latin And South American countries are fucked because of internal struggle or because the "presidents" are so corrupt.
Ha! yea people live so great there, thats why my family risked their lives trying to leave. Ok.....Warping? I visit Cuba every year too, I'm goin again this summer..I don't think you know more about Cuba than I do. And yes, people are paid by the government to listen in on converstations...Where do you live now?? How come you didn't stay in Cuba? Do you send money to your family? I'm exteremly curious to find out your responses.
~xochitl

[Maaja]

I have never been to Cuba myself but I do have a friend from Finland who went there for a month. She came back and showed me all her photos, done inside and outside. It was cute, I have to admit, the houses were quite... old but interiors were actually very nice. She is not at all a rich person and she collected her money for going there for a long time. Even there she didn't had much money but she managed and could live well with that. She told me that she could spoke to many many Cubans and they all told her that they aren't really having problems with food, that everybody can eat and that people do have homes.
I think that especially Cubans who do live outside Cuba are very negative about that what's happening there are don't look the situation objectively.

And if the situation is really so bad and you care... Why don't you go back and change something?!

[PunkRawker677]

"And your uncle lives in Venezuela?? Yea, not Cuba. "
if you read correctly. My uncle DOES live in cuba. he is staying in Venezuela for two years to teach medical students.. duh..

and, no one is paid by the goverment to spy on people

why do people risk there lives?
you say u have been to cuba.. when u were there, ever listen to Radio Marti, broadcasted to cuba from the U.$.
well, on the radio, they say in the U.S. one pound of steak costs 50cents, a brand new car, 400$.. thats why.. propaganda.
My grandmother and Sister came to the U$ four years ago and left within two weeks because they hated it here.

I live in south florida now. I came back because my my mother's side of the family, who raised me, lives here, and i wanted to be with the people who raised me. I would send me money but my family doesnt want me to because they believe that they should work for their own money, and they dont really have any desire for materialistic aspects of life. And, living in the U$, working a full time job, and going to school, i dont have much money to send, even if they wanted me to..

your just listening to one side cuban-american propoganda telling you that the goverment pays people to spy on them.. thats probably the stupidest fucking thing i have ever heard..
besides- theres a DAMN GOOD possibility that the U$ goverment monitors all calls, and internet activity by searching for certain keywords.

[liderDeFARC]

PunkRawker677, what part of Florida do you live in? I want to go to Cuba, but i dont know if i can. So does the U$ gov't let people like me without family there go?

ahhhhhh, all that you say makes me want to go there . It seems they are festive relaxed people, similar to the kind of peeps in Colombia. Unlike here in the U$ where everyone is so stressed out, and have a life that is mostly made up of going to work, and they arent very social...... you dont see many street parties ( which i love)

[wildflower8]

wow.......you get really shaken up about this huh? I think you should relax just a little bit because I really want to know where you are comming from. I'm trying to understand your experiences because mine are so different. Although I most certainly do not agree with you about this I don't think it would be right for me to completely disregard what you say considering you have seen it. I have seen it too, perhaps that is why we are so passionate about this, however , I may speak for myself. My Mom's family has sufferred a lot, and I just can't stand the idea of someone telling me that they lie about their stories and that my own eyes decieve me. I don't respond well to that, and apparently you don't either. I do respect your view point, and some of what you say is true. Especially what you say about the US. I think that you think I am some US fanatic that puts US flags up everywhere and sings God Bless America all day. I am really not, I have actually decided to use my Mexican passport ( I wish I could have a Cuban passport) when I travel to Europe and Latin America because I am ashamed of being an American. I'm really not some confused white-washed person. I am disgusted with the US. I heard a lecture Howard Zinn a few months ago and he spoke on American History, he reaffirmed in my mind that everything that we learn in our history class is propaganda. But, it still doesn't make me feel better about the Cuba situation. I guess what I'm trying to say is that you and I could go on for ever about our view points and our personal stories, and we would never come to a complete agreement. I think it is actually really dumb for me to resent a person I don't even know. So I just want you to relax cuz we won't get any where with this.
~Xochitl

[PunkRawker677]

Many of the things you spoke about occur in small areas of the coutries, similar to U.S. ghettos. It is unfair to classify the whole island by one city, or one family's standards. I am classifying it based on my family which is spread about the island and the numerous friends and foes i have there. I respect you as well, and i do get very shaken up on this issue. My people, such as JoseM, put shit so out of proportion and it makes me really mad. I have a cuban passport, and if your family is originally from cuba (if they came her after 66) you can register for a cuban passport as well. Not all families have it well, most do not, but the right winged families will always blow things out of proportion. Some of the things you said, such as the "spies" and what not are completly false and have absolutly no ground. I am not refuting your experiences, but your assumtions.. no hard feelings my friend. One disagreement doesnt make an enemy. We all need to unite.

[STALINSOLDIERS]

yeah man dam cubans and there american propanganda in miami .... some cubans that came from cuba says they like it better there then here and says it isnt that bad of a life.. i live in miami and live with cubans so i can say much....and d-day shut the fuck up

[wildflower8]

My family was spread through out Cuba. I still have family there too. Thats really awesome that I can get a Cuban passport! I'll definately look into it ! I think that we can both learn a lot from each other and our experiences because they are so different. I would love to hear more about you and your history though. I don't pretend to know everything b/c I'm pretty young and I have a lot to learn.....so I really want to hear more....I don't want it to be so hostile, if thats ok w/you. I do agree with you that many Cubans in Miami are US fanatics, I think a prime example of that was when they wanted to use Elian Gonzalez as a political pawn. That makes me sick! But thanks for what you said b/c I was hoping that we wouldn't have to hate eachother....That would be ridiculous.
~Xochitl