Fuck sake - don't you just feel like fighting?

[revolutionary spirit]

you see all these images,of brothers in distant lands being killed through the people that are meant to represent us.It takes the piss.You just feel like wanting to get an AK and go storming downing street.

[I Will Deny You]

My sister and her boyfriend are both environmentalists who were in South America for years and they met some former guerillas and contacts with the FARC and Shining Path. She said that a lot of them are very good people, and only a few of them are the "evil" type that we see on the news. They seem very admirable to me, from what I've read and heard. There are certainly places on this planet that could use a revolution, and the brave people who are risking their lives to help others definitely deserve major kudos.

[revolutionary spirit]

yeah i know,while we are here talking and shit they are the ones in the jungles waiting in ambush for the US Marines

[I Will Deny You]

Well each situation calls for different methods, and it just so happens that in many places my sister met people who were from areas that need a complete revolution. But here in the city I have volunteered with lots of non-profit leftist organizations and homeless shelters, and I've made a difference. It all depends on where you are--plenty of important people never fought in the jungle, but plenty of other important people did.

[Kez]

Surely we can do more to change society on the ballot rather than bullet
Bullet should be last resort, to defend, not attack

comrade kamo

[Fires of History]

Quote: from I Will Deny You on 11:07 pm on April 1, 2002
....they met some former guerillas and contacts with the FARC and Shining Path. She said that a lot of them are very good people, and only a few of them are the "evil" type that we see on the news.

YES! "Terrorist" is such a political word nowadays that it's meaning is worthless!

I mean, for fuck sake, according to today's definition of "terrorist" even George Washington and his crew were "terrorists," but you'll never hear someone in the States admit that.

Guess only non-whites can be "terrorists."

Talk about a useless word now,
Trance

[CheGuevara]

If you use the bullet to defend, and not to attack, you will lose anyway, aka Waco.

[sabre]

George Orwell fortold it in Animal Farm

I had to do a report on how Napoleon corrupts language to maintain a dictatorship

i.e. "Any animal that doesn't volunteer to work extra hours will have their rations reduced by 1/2"

anyway i wish there was some way to help some of those struggling guerilla groups

WE SHOULD SEND THEM PORN! i bet they get pretty horny sititng in the jungle all day with a bunch of men. WE SHOULD HAVE A PORN DRIVE! like food drives!, BUT FOR PORN!!! wow thsi sis a sweet idea, who needs food anyway!

[Angie]

Speaking of porn, I was actually quite insulted to hear about the Israeli soldiers forcing porn onto Palestinian TV networks. I mean technically I don't give a toss about porn, it can either be decent (rare, though it often comes under the terminology of "Nude Art".) or utterly stupid (most of the time, I would predict). But deliberately projecting it upon people who are religiously and morally against it, beginning at a time when children would want to watch TV (3:30pm) is just disgusting. Pallies get my vote on that one.

[deimos]

I think we're more useful when we stay where we are and trie to say the truth to other people! Even when someone had been in a Elite squad of his country in palestine you don't have the right weapons. You can't fight with an ak against tanks or even israeli soldiers with U$ high-tech equipment! But i thought i about tactics. The hamas could plant bombs under the manhole cover and when a apc drives above it they blow the apc and all soldiers that he's carrieng!

[Hayduke]

I belived at some times running with a gun wuld probaly hold back alot of cops here...........I mean you shoot them first dont ya.
After that I just saw it as some shit.
If you do these tings it must be something big.
Not one person..... ( rambo was fake :) )
must be at least 100
But man I am carried away ala stalinsoldiers

[Lefty]

i agree with kamo... try to be peaceful. All this guerrilla shit will get crushed in the u.s. anyway... However i am all for following che's example and taking over one of the us' puppet countries.

I suggest france, as a well trained girl-scout troop armed with shovels and bb guns could take it over in a matter of days...i mean, come on, they're FRENCH for gods sake! :-D

[CheGuevara]

This "guerrilla shit" is all we have, you jackass. There is no other option that has any chance of success.

[Kez]

Guerilla warfare can only succeed when we have enough numbers.

What lets say in the whole world theres 100,000 lefties wanting armed struggle,

US army would put us down in a week-month

We have to get the masses to break the govt's down

comrade kamo

[CheGuevara]

Guerrilla warfare isn't about numbers.

[honest intellectual]

I agree with CheGuevara (both the member and that Argentine fella). Guerilla foci are the only option. A small vanguard is all that is neede to stir up a sucessful revolution. It's funny that so few people agree with Che's views on a site dedicated to him

[Malvinas Argentinas]

"...No es culpa nuestra si el país ha sido conducido hacia un abismo en que no tenga otra formula salvadora que la revolucion. No amamos la fuerza; porque detestamos la fuerza es por lo que no estamos dispuestos a que se nos gobierne por la fuerza. No amamos la violencia; porque detestamos la violencia no estamos dispuestos a seguir soportando la violencia"-Fidel

Bullets should be only used against bullets.

[flames of the flag]

Do you ever feel like pacsifism isn't working?
All the politicians are saying "okay, these guys get together and sing and ni can continue to screw them over, sounds good"
whenever i start to feel pascifist i listen to rage and that gets my trigger finger itchy. But then again being fourteen the only way i could get a gun would be to get into a gang wich is not cool so im slightly screwed.
But i agree that numbers arent an issue, me and five comrades could fuck up my town in a week without killing any one, duct taping over ads, putting trees on roads graffiting, tagging suvs
stuff like that.
but then again, how many people post on this site? probably enough for a not to bad guerilla group,
-flames

[RedRevolutionary87]

ya me2, i live in canada for christs sake! what are they gonna do, send there one plane and 5 soilders agenst the revolution in canada! plus dont werry flames, we can be armed within minutes, when the time comes

[I Will Deny You]

Quote: from CheGuevara on 6:22 pm on April 4, 2002
Guerrilla warfare isn't about numbers.
There's certainly more to it than numbers, but it's undeniable that numbers matter.

[Revolution Hero]

Many of you choose the peaceful way of changing society. Try to remember the history. There were enough victorious revolutions, and not much peaceful changing of the system. But the real change is needed after the victory.
I am for the fighting and for the revolutionary actions. I am just waiting for the chance when my help will be needed. Are you waiting for that chance?
Don't be afraid of fighting, don't be afraid of death, remember for whom you fight and for what you fight!

[9mm Rebel]

....Errr, does this mean that all the postcard writing hippies are gone?

Oooh I know, maybe they realized just how horribly obvious it is that Bush doesn't write his own speeches, and he's not looking at the american people, oh no he's looking at the scrolling words on the tele-prompter.

Whatever, now you people are finally speaking the words of action... how many of you would actually act when the time comes doesn't really matter since this is an online forum and all we can do is type, eh?

Someone pass me an AK please.
*tokes his stogie*
*looks at Che*

*EDIT* Ahhh I just thought to myself.. why the hell do I have to insult you hippies that insist that writing letters and sending pretty postcards is more productive then offing some hella crazy suits; on a Che Guevara message board..

The man was no diplomat, he picked up a gun and decided to change things. This is the general forum, but ffs don't tell someone that wants to fight that they're insane or wrong just cuz they dont want to hide behind an envelope like you.

See ya on the field Comrades.

Thats my rant. Enjoy.



(Edited by 9mm Rebel at 11:01 am on April 5, 2002)

[Kez]

WTF people,
I was once a pro-violent revlutionary guy, but how the fuck are we gonna fight millions of capitalist soldiers.
Anyone heard of Haymarket Massacre? what happened then? that was ages ago, and now cops soldiers are more sophisticated

when i said we need numbers, i didnt necceserily mean figher, i meant supporters. U cant win a revolution and expect it to stay without popular support. Look at USSR, maybe not best example, but had the ppl voted the bolsheviks in, then they would not have had anything against them, and russian wouldnt be capitalist now

Comrade Kamo

In which ever form the revolution takes place, i'll be there!

[LASTMANSTANDING]

I completely agree. Geurilla warfare must have the complete support and understanding of the people it is trying to liberate. In America at least, right now everyone got a patriotic hair up their ass, so now they're all gung ho to kill osama. If we tried a violent overthrow then it wouldn't survive because the people would not help. What we realy need is some major slip up by the beauracracy that shows the american people what they are really about or a single incident that could unify the masses against their opressors. So for right now the best thing to do is to spread ideas and try to convert as many people as possible.

[revolutionary spirit]

well yeah you need a majority to overthrow the government and have good foundations for a socialist society but i don't think the ruling class are going to give in that easy,they'll have their troops still and you are going to have to use violence.Let us say we overthrow the government in the UK there will be a civil war afterwards.America won't stand by and lose her best ally,she will be supporting counter-revolutions,are even invade.I could see bush now saying that ''we need to save our british friends from the evil rule of communism and all this shit.You are going to have to use violence down the road,it's a foregone conclusion,you can't use paper to kill the ruling class,you need fucking bullets.

[CheGuevara]

I'm not talking about rioting and random bomb throwing like the Haymarket massacre. Yes, it's difficult to have a succesful revolution and maintain power without popular support. However, it would be extremely difficult, if not impossible, to achieve this with the current sophistication of the capitalist system. Let's end the exploitation now, not in 100 years. ¡ya basta!

[I Will Deny You]

Quote: from 9mm Rebel on 5:56 am on April 5, 2002
....Errr, does this mean that all the postcard writing hippies are gone?

Oooh I know, maybe they realized just how horribly obvious it is that Bush doesn't write his own speeches, and he's not looking at the american people, oh no he's looking at the scrolling words on the tele-prompter.Maybe you haven't realized how horribly obvious it is that Bush isn't signing the campaign finance reform bill because he wants to, or because he actually think's it a good idea. Do you know why so many "hella crazy suits" voted for the bill? I'll tell you: beacuse the American people demanded it. Maybe it's time you realize that no "hella crazy suits" are about to listen to one person (who is probably not yet of voting age) that demands a complete revolution. But the "hella crazy suits" have listened to the majority of the American people, who want campaign finance reform and will vote for a politician who supports it. How do the majority of Congress and the president know that the majority of the American people support campaign finance reform? It's those goshdarned "postcards", stupid! I know the bill is flawed, but overall it will improve things and it would not have passed if it weren't for people who write "postcards", whether they write them while writing incense or between target practice sessions at the local shooting range. I had no idea that writing letters and signing petitions is what has stopped your revolution.


Quote: from 9mm Rebel on 5:56 am on April 5, 2002
Whatever, now you people are finally speaking the words of action... how many of you would actually act when the time comes doesn't really matter since this is an online forum and all we can do is type, eh?There are plenty of people (many of whom are actually the "hippies" that you so despise) who have decided that they will not wait for your time to come. They will not wait for someone to tell them to take up arms. They will not wait for anything and they established communist societies all by themselves. It's easy to say, "I don't sign petitions or take two seconds to write a leftist letter to an elected representative because I'm waiting for CommieDude69 on AOL to tell me to overthrow the government" but it's much harder to give up on capitalist society and begin the way of life that you read about and fantasize about.


Quote: from 9mm Rebel on 5:56 am on April 5, 2002
Ahhh I just thought to myself.. why the hell do I have to insult you hippies that insist that writing letters and sending pretty postcards is more productive then offing some hella crazy suits; on a Che Guevara message board..I "advocate" (to use the words of a member whose sentiments reflect yours) "sending postcards" and I actually do it. You "advocate" "offing some hella crazy suits" but you never had the balls to actually do it yourself. And, for your information, unless you off every "hella crazy suit" (from the President right on down to the Undersecretary of Assisting the Secretary of Education) and then, somehow, stop the United States military and all NATO and UN troops, you will not succeed. You will have done an incredible amount of harm and no good can come of it. Sending a "postcard", however, is at best a good influence on a scumbag who needs it and at worst a waste of one sheet of recycled paper.


Quote: from 9mm Rebel on 5:56 am on April 5, 2002
The man was no diplomat, he picked up a gun and decided to change things. This is the general forum, but ffs don't tell someone that wants to fight that they're insane or wrong just cuz they dont want to hide behind an envelope like you.You don't have to be a "diplomat" to speak in front of the UN or go on missions to Asian and African countries, do you? He also supported plenty of peaceful movements all around the world. And although you did not mention me specifically, I know that you comments were aimed at me so if I may respond to your "hide behind an envelope" comment: It is, in fact, possible to own an envelope and a gun. There are no laws against it, even in the United States! When my sister met FARC troops I sent her all of my money and she gave it to them. I have (gasp!) written to politicians all over the world to try to get them to treat the Zapatistas fairly. But supporting these legitimate movements doesn't mean supporting you.


Quote: from CheGuevara on 6:08 pm on April 5, 2002
Let's end the exploitation now, not in 100 years.How do you plan to do that? Oh, I forgot that you found flaws in those army plans. And you've got those millions of troops and thousands of nuclear weapons in your basement in Princeton. (Or do you live in an apartment--in which case everything would be stored on your balcony or in your linen closet?)

[RedRevolutionary87]

revolution needs to be popular, in that case what are thy gonna do? kill off half of their population? if they do that they lose anyways

[9mm Rebel]

It's not a matter of having balls to do it or not, It's a matter of waiting for the right time, as you said our 'enemy' is very large and powerful.

Grabbing a gun and shooting any government official I see will do nothing but get me killed, and accomplish nothing.

And yes I know the revolution wont be happening anytime soon (If we have any hopes of it being sucessful)... What with %98 of the people in the US being completely whipped on this whole 'patriotism' bullshit.

The End~

[CheGuevara]

Yes, the FARC is a great movement ;)

We don't want, nor do we need, your support.

[RedCeltic]

CheG... If we where in Bethlehem... I'd be honored to be fighting the Israelis alongside you... but considering we are in the US... well... it's rough rebeling against the only superpower left in the world.

[CheGuevara]

I never said it would be easy.

[James]

I think in a place where armed resistance is pritty much impossible, and where passive ways have been tried so much on co many occasions...its best doing something to the people at the top something they won't forget in a hurry. Like throwing an egg/paint at a top guy, very good if there are cameras around...Or you could shit in a box and send it to them...muh ha ha ha

[Angie]

CheG, you're an inspiration. I don't say it to put you above anyone else, because I feel all the different views are valid in their own ways, but I just felt that I would point it out to you that you've got an impressive determination. Keep it up. :)

[I Will Deny You]

Quote: from CheGuevara on 3:34 am on April 7, 2002
I never said it would be easy.
But you think it's doable, don't you?

[CheGuevara]

Yes

[munkey soup]

Face it, violence is the greatest attention-getter. I would personally love to see a peacful revolution, but in the U$, it will eventually be the only means of bringing about change. There are too many people here (in the U$) who are set in their ways.

But, I do not think the time is right. This goes against Che's phiolosophy on the matter, but I think his idea that a revolution can occur at any time was largely proved wrong in Bolivia.

I do however, believe that the distance to zero-hour can be shortened, and the time is rapidly approaching when a large portion of the world will turn on the U$, when that occurs, domestic insurrgency will be possible.

[Kez]

Its fuckin ridiculous you guys,
We will never fight and win against USA with her fuckin army, there must be like 1000 US troops to every one of us.
Also the fact that 60% of us are 18 or below and most of us would never swap our comfy turning computer seats for even a week in Hills or Street FIghting

Im sorry, i really want to have socialism spread around the world, but we never be able to do it through gunfighting.

comrade kamo

[RedRevolutionary87]

doesnt matter a peoples guerrilla army can win, they cant kill what they cant see

[9mm Rebel]

1000/1...

I think it would be fair to say that 1 guerilla fighter, could take out 1000 trained, well armed troops, over the course of weeks, or possibly in one day.

One well placed bomb, a mortar bombardment, grenades, rpg's, all of these should be at the disposal of a guerilla fighter, who could cause massive damage to an unsuspecting target.

I'm sure there's plenty books about guerilla warfare out there, even one by our good ol comrade Ernesto Che Guevara.

Can't wait for the day that I'm the 1 facing the thousands... wouldn't hurt to have some comrades backin me either ;)

"Never give up... Never surrender" -Some famous quote by someone famous

*hears a knock at the door*
Ah crap, it's the FBI :(


(Edited by 9mm Rebel at 1:40 am on April 9, 2002)

[CheGuevara]

YOU would never swap your comfy turning computer seats for even a week in hills or street fighting

[I Will Deny You]

Quote: from 9mm Rebel on 8:39 pm on April 8, 2002
I think it would be fair to say that 1 guerilla fighter, could take out 1000 trained, well armed troops, over the course of weeks, or possibly in one day.

One well placed bomb, a mortar bombardment, grenades, rpg's, all of these should be at the disposal of a guerilla fighter, who could cause massive damage to an unsuspecting target.
I hate to be the one who has to tell you this, but guerilla fighting ain't what it used to be. At least not in America! I'd like to see you try and kill a thousand people in New York or Los Angeles. Just you try.

And the "unsuspecting" targets aren't the ones that need to be taken out. Daycare centers are unsuspecting. Weapons research facilities and army bases aren't.

[CheGuevara]

The future of guerrilla warfare is not in the cities.

[RedRevolutionary87]

millitary bases are easy, huck a few bombs and run into the woods, what are they gonna do? they are unsuspecting, they didnt suspect a plane to crash into wto but it did, america is very vulnerable.

[I Will Deny You]

Of course guerilla warfare wasn't meant for cities, but let't be realistic for a moment. How can America be conquered if you stay outside of the cities? The White House isn't exactly in rural West Virginia, is it?


Quote: from RedRevolutionary87 on 12:22 am on April 9, 2002
millitary bases are easy, huck a few bombs and run into the woods, what are they gonna do?Because we all know that the vulnerable sections of military bases are left unguarded.

[CheGuevara]

Guerrillas would need to operate in the cities, but would need to be based outside of them.

[Anarcho]

A guerilla army cannot live in the countryside without the support of the populace of said countryside.

There is NO support in the American rural areas for said revolutionaries. Trust me, I've lived there. I grew up in rural Montana ( which is pretty much all of Montana..) and there is dis-satisfaction, yes, but those people would rather die living in the country the way it is than die trying to create a "Godless Communist state".

And that, is a fact.

[Kez]

Dont believe this.

Nice one Cheg, you keep attackin me , u sure will get support doin that for ur war.

Also, where the fuck are u gonna get ur money form for your weapons? States arent gonna give it to you, so you better earn millions for youreselves, and somehow maintain the flow of money until you *sighs* are victorious in your revolution.

So, you think you could take on 1000 Soldiers? Seriously doubt it mate.
However even if you do win *sighs* then the people still wont be on your side, what are you gonna say to them "yeah were right bullshit bulshit"? coz after 50 eyars of propaganda they not gonna become willing communists.

You never seen "The russians are coming?" that films probably not far off the truth, think of how many fuckers are gonna wanna kill commies

Then think of the mafia, they wont wanna give their money to the govt, so they gonna shoot the commies.

So.. in my mini conlcusion you have the followin enemies
Soldiers
FBI
CIa
95% of gun owners
Mafia
And also you wont win the support of 99% of america population easily

yours in struggle
comrade kamo

[RedCeltic]

Boy, you've changed Kamo... :biggrin:

It doesn't take a rocket scientist to figure out what the chances are for such an operation....

[Kez]

I know RC

ah, i remember the days, when i was so pro-violent revolution, especially against police etc

Now i have realised that we must push peacefully until we have no space, and only then go towards violence

comrade kamo

[Guest]

you guys are sick... violence is NOT the answer... i wonder where you are when you type these obscene sentences... are you in a warm house with a cup of java at your side, the television going to the right, and your kids in the background playing. you are so dearly inconsistent, so dearly sick... i am thankful i was born here in the States because i can think freely, speak freely, have an opportunity to change the system... granted you have freedom of speech but your solutions are poor and illogical... and sick. meanwhile, be thankful you can type things like this w/o the government looking over your head as you go from website to website. you do not make sense, you are illogical, so long as you are those nobody will listen to your cause and your so called "revolution"...

[RedCeltic]

Guest 207.243.167.101

Join this community or shut the fuck up.


Oh and Kamo: I was looking at your website for YFRC you look like your doing well.. expanding to three more counteries... good luck with that... anyway I agree with what you said there.

(Edited by RedCeltic at 2:00 pm on April 9, 2002)

[CheGuevara]

Some of us don't lounge around in front of the computer all day in our comfy chairs, and would gladly trade how we live now and how others live now for fighting, even if we lose. Consolidating power will be the least of our worries. After we win, we'll change the media and education systems. It truly shows how little you know about guerrilla warfare by the fact that you can't think of any ways guerrillas other than state-sponsorship that guerrillas can raise funds. And no, I'm not thinking of bake-sales.

[I Will Deny You]

Quote: from CheGuevara on 5:34 pm on April 9, 2002
Some of us don't lounge around in front of the computer all day in our comfy chairs, and would gladly trade how we live now and how others live now for fighting, even if we lose. Consolidating power will be the least of our worries. After we win, we'll change the media and education systems. It truly shows how little you know about guerrilla warfare by the fact that you can't think of any ways guerrillas other than state-sponsorship that guerrillas can raise funds. And no, I'm not thinking of bake-sales. If you had the slightest chance in the world of winning, that would be one thing. But if you know that you can't possibly win (which is the case) then fighting would be stupid and futile, and probably counter-productive. And even if you change the education system and get a bunch of third graders to pledge alliegance to your name, remember that gun-owners aren't in school anymore. (The gun owners who you'd have the most problems with might not have been in school to begin with!) Education begins at home. If you tell all of the teachers to praise communism, first of all you won't be able to find enough able teachers who would be willing to go along with you. Second of all, the schoolchildren would go home and un-learn everything that they learned in school when their Average Joe American parents tell them about communism. Fighting a guerilla war on a tiny, barely developed island nation in the late 1950's full of people who hated the government is much different than fighting the most powerful army in the history of the world (which is supported by a vast majority of the people it serves, especially when it comes to fighting communists). You would need literally millions of soldiers.

Could you have a bake sale anyway, just for fun? I'm in the mood for a brownie but I don't feel like going to the store and getting mix.

[RedCeltic]

I really don't see any need to argue over and over for months about the same thing that's never going to happen...

[CheGuevara]

You really are a piece of work. I never said that we couldn't win.

[RedCeltic]

Well.. maybe one day it will come to that.... I don't think we are there yet...

In the meantime there are starving people that need to be fed, homeless in need of shelter, political prisoners that need to be free, and wars that need to end.

[vox]

What Red Celtic said. Exactly.

vox

[CheGuevara]

Yes, go band-aid solutions.

[vox]

"Yes, go band-aid solutions."

I was reading the latest Amnesty Now today from Amnesty International. AI waged intensive campaigns to free Dr. Saad Eddin Ibrahim and Jose Gallaro, and they were released. There's an article about the Ashcroft Raids--the detention of immigrants in the USA. Tahir Iqbal is being held in New Jersey. He's been detained for months. His wife has had to sell their possessions, give up their apartment. She doesn't have money for groceries for her and her daughter.

This family, and countless others, could use a band-aid right about now. Rigid ideology doesn't put food into anyone's belly.

vox

[RedCeltic]

well said VoX... better "Band-aid" than no aid.

[I Will Deny You]

Quote: from CheGuevara on 11:13 pm on April 9, 2002
I never said that we couldn't win.
Forgive me for relying on common sense and actual facts instead of what you say.

If band-aid solutions are what we've got, well, let's work with them. We've got to use what we've got.

[CheGuevara]

Well, this is getting old. It's obvious the rest of you aren't serious about changing the system and aren't willing to make sacrifices.

Anyway, as for band-aids, as they say, there is a danger of not seeing the forest for the trees.

(Edited by CheGuevara at 6:16 am on April 10, 2002)

[Angie]

Guys, guys, come on...

BOTH sides are relevant here - sure there are places across the globe where a sharp uprising may well be appropriate, but just as those situations present themselves, so do the "band-aid" situations.

Neither issue can be put aside in place of the other, so it's necessary to work out how to be either be a multi-tasker, and handle several things at once, or to learn how to be a team player, and share the responsibility around among multiple people so the load's lighter, so to speak.

Launching an all-out violent attack upon the U.S Government is not an option at this point of time. It's no longer as simple as reading all Che's ideology or anyone else's ideology for that matter, then claiming, "I know how to beat the U.S Government!"; No. Your enemy reads those papers, too, they know all the moves.

It's up to us to find a way to alter those ideologies and apply them to today's world, because it is a very different place to what it was during Che's time, or Lenin's time, etc. Band-aids are needed to assist in keeping society together until we've found the perfect way of combining the past with the present, to create the future.

We're not there yet, but we're on the right path.

[Kez]

ah, CheGuevara u make me laugh, much appreciated :)

Why do we need a violent revolution when it is counter productive, aaah, this is repetition, fuck

hrmmm

Unless we are an influence in society (media, education etc) we can never win
UNITE AND FIGHT!

Yo CheGuevara, maybe you can put your obvious passion for the cause in another way?

comrade kamo

[honest intellectual]

Kamo, IWDY, vox;
Nobody was suggesting starting a revolution in the US, it's not ready for it yet. But we can build up the strength of communism in the third world with revolutions there.

[Reuben]

yeah both sides are relevant. Of course I believe capitalism can only be destroyed by violence, but would you not do anything about south africa or palestine, simply because both struggles stop short of bringing down capitalism.

And what is really not helpful is Cheguevara telling other people there not serious and going in for this "your not a real revolutionary' crap

[Kez]

Quote: from honest intellectual on 7:19 pm on April 10, 2002
Kamo, IWDY, vox;
Nobody was suggesting starting a revolution in the US, it's not ready for it yet. But we can build up the strength of communism in the third world with revolutions there.


yeah they were, bout "yeah...1 guerilla can take 1000 american soldiers", wtf

read back

[RedCeltic]

Quote: from honest intellectual on 1:19 pm on April 10, 2002
Kamo, IWDY, vox;
Nobody was suggesting starting a revolution in the US, it's not ready for it yet. But we can build up the strength of communism in the third world with revolutions there.


I would agree with a revolution in the third world... thing is... we've had this conversation with CheG before and he isn't talking about another countery... he's talking about the United States and thinks that it's possible... and he has a good chance of having a sucsessful revolution in New Jersey.

[CheGuevara]

Yeah, I was talking about a revolution in the US. No, I never proposed such outlandish claims as 1 guerrilla taking out 1000 US soldiers, that was someone else. It's extremely difficult to have revolutions in the third world because if the US doesn't suppress them at first, they'll end up stunted by economic problems because of the US, despite great intentions, such as in Cuba.

You people need to wake up and smell the shit, and get a match out and burn it. Spraying air freshener on it is only going to "work" so long.

Well, at least we're not trying to start a revolution on Long Island :)

(Edited by CheGuevara at 3:38 am on April 11, 2002)

[RedCeltic]

"Well, at least we're not trying to start a revolution on Long Island"

lol... funny... I know that sounded like I was mocking you... I didn't mean it that way.

[Guest1]

My problem with the band-aids is you should be using them, but they must not overshadow the real change. What's the point of providing aid to one of millions of land-mine victims if you're going to crush efforts to stop the laying of land-mines to do it? Good job, I've been here less than 90 seconds reading this thread and I'm already pissed off. The "fake revolutionary" shit might not be pleasing to hear, but it's not a bad idea to re-think some of the comments that brought it about. Then of course there's the idea of revolution, I don't think it's impossible, in the near future it could happen. The army ain't well-trained, they're well equipped. You see the thing is, they've been trained with "you are the strongest, nothing to worry about" being the core idea. The american military's history in fighting ground wars against guerrilla groups is miserable, they've only been able to do it by carpet-bombing the area, which they won't do in such a case. Don't be so quick to dismiss the idea. as long as we sit on our asses like this, noone will think the time has come for a revolution, and nothing will change.

[Kez]

What is to stop USA bombing our area?
to root out "terrorists"?

comrade kamo

[I Will Deny You]

Quote: from CheGuevara on 10:37 pm on April 10, 2002
You people need to wake up and smell the shit, and get a match out and burn it. Spraying air freshener on it is only going to "work" so long.
Okay, the first reason that you can't get away with saying that is that you're from Jersey, the smelliest place on earth. If there's any place on this planet that needs air freshener no matter what type of economic system is in place, it's New Jersey.

The rest of the reasons for why that's bullshit have been said many times by many people. If you don't have something new to say, don't say anything at all.

[RedCeltic]

lol IWDY, but to be fair... he never did say he was from Elizabeth New Jersey ;)

that's the very smelly place just south of New York City that always get's the reaction "What's that smell?... oh... we must be in Jersey!"

(Edited by RedCeltic at 3:37 pm on April 11, 2002)

[CheGuevara]

I think Malte should make a new title for those special members of the community; *****.

[RedCeltic]

Sour Grapes...

[CheGuevara]

I'm not the one who's filled up 1047 posts with worthless drivel.

[9mm Rebel]

I was the one that said 1 guerilla can take out 1000 soldiers, no matter how well armed. Fuck it, just steal a suit case nuke, the only way a guerilla is inferior to his or her enemy is in numbers. A big ass bomb in the middle of an army base and do lots of damage and cause many casualties. Actually I'm not sure being smaller in numbers makes the guerilla's inferior at all... more enemies means more groups of them, which in turn means more damage can be dealt.

Acquiring the enemies weapons is all a part of the process, and they got some pretty damn big ones from what I've seen and heard.

Get a bomb and blow shit up... er.. minding innocent capitalist slaves of course..

"Get a bomb and blow shit up." - Me

[Guest]

Well then why don't you head on down to your "Wepons of mass destruction" outlet store and pick up a dozen or so of those Nuclear suit cases? I've heard they're running a sale next week.

[9mm Rebel]

~Flame~
It's sad that everyone named Guest, is a complete dumbass whom has nothing relevant or useful to contribute to ANY discussion.

I believe it was RedCeltic that once said something like "If your name is Guest, shut the fuck up!"

And if it wasn't... then let me just say..

If your name is Guest, shut the fuck up!
~Flame~

Thank you.

[Kez]

rofl at guest.
Well, if it isnt inferior to have small numbers, y dont "cheguevara" and "9mm" go and "blow shit up", u can be a great army.

comrade kamo

[I Will Deny You]

I was joking. Get a grip.

And I wouldn't have to post so much if you would come up with an original argument once in a while, instead of repeating yourself over and over and over and over and over (which means I've got to set you straight).

[RedCeltic]

I believe it was RedCeltic that once said something like "If your name is Guest, shut the fuck up!"

I said something like that... the Guest situation is getting a bit out of hand at the moment...

[Fires of History]

I've been following this thread, quite interesting.

I'll never forget my American History professor. He always pointed out that the Civil Rights movement wouldn't have had such fire, or success, had there not been TWO fronts: The Malcolm X, Black Panther, Violent front, and the Dr. MLKing, Demonstration, Peaceful front. I think it takes BOTH.

I also think that perhaps 'revolution' is a loaded word, no pun intended. Because there are so many layers to 'revolution,' I think that much of the behind-the-scenes work, the work of the common person, is overshadowed by guns, bombs, and people storming the capital.

My point is that it WILL take both when the time comes. No amount of singing will make lasting, real change, as power doesn't willingly relinquish power. But neither will going around shooting everyone is sight. A balance is necessary, and a wisely-led balance at that.

One VERY IMPORTANT point about guerilla warfare has been missed in this thread so far. You must have the full support of the people. Even Che said, "The guerrilla fighter needs full help from the people of the area. This is an indispensable condition."

And I unfortunately do not believe that such a situation is immediately possible in the U$. Maybe one day, hopefully.

Amerikkkans are blinded to the reality of the common condition. Hence why I culture jam, media jam, whatever one wants to call it. It is time to wake the people up! To take the talking heads out of their heads, to unplug the TV, to expose the lies people buy everyday. People here in Canada are just as asleep. And being from the U$, I can see more clearly now than ever just how asleep Amerikkkans truly are. It's really quite amazing...

CheGuevara, I agree with you. Ultimate change will require some armed conflict, if at least to establish a transitory guard. I also believe, no matter how 'peaceful' the attempt at change is, those in power will come down hard on the people. Some excuse will be found.

CheGuevara, once there is more popular support, I'll be at your side Comrade. Although I do believe that extraordinary individual acts have merit, and can cause a shift in the people's thinking. After all, after Patrick Pearse stormed the Post Office, the immediate reaction in Ireland what that he was CRAZY! A FOOL! But, with time, and after his execution, the revolution was fueled in ways he could only have dreamed of.

It's mass popular support that's the problem. Most people in the U$, and most 'first-world' countries, are sleepwalkers posing as humans. Revolution should have already occured, but there's simply too much to be gained from the amerikkkan dream...right!? lol lol lol

Amerikkkans must WAKE UP before there is successful revolution there...

Fortunately, many in the 'third-world' aren't so blinded to the reality of their condition, or the common condition of their fellow man- and woman :)

"How fortunate for governments that the people they administer don't think." -Adolf Hitler

"The tree of liberty must be watered periodically with the blood of tyrants and patriots alike." -Thomas Jefferson

[Kez]

I actually sed about 3 times we need popular support for a "armed revolution" and it is for that reason we CANT have an armed revolution.

FoH made a fuckin valuable point by saying we need both fronts, and only when he/she sed it did i see how it made sense.

comrade kamo