Redstar's 'Stalinist' past.

[Enver Hoxha]

http://www.politicsforum.org/soviet/viewto...dab7e7f75645296 (http://www.politicsforum.org/soviet/viewtopic.php?t=3540&start=0&sid=ab84842fab6425ab2dab7e7f75645296)

Or to quote him the article in that thread presents a 'Class Analysis of the USSR' and quite a good one according to Redstar.

Anyway this isn't meant as demeaning or insulting to mr2000 and hopefully we can get a good discussion on the issues raised there (unfournatly as pointed out that discussion went into 'personalities' sadly) but the article is very good and nearly if such a thing is possible pretty neutral (although Ludo Martens is a 'Stalinist').

So perhaps now there could be a good debate in a historical sense by both us Leninists and anti-Leninists on the problems the Bolsheviks faced, the mistakes they committed, the problems of orders from top to bottom and how this was abused, the struggle for party democracy and workers democracy, the over beaucratic policies at times etc, etc.

[redstar2000]

My past "catches up" with me. :o

I was initially very impressed with the Martens article on class struggle in the USSR. I was so impressed, that I downloaded the book from which it comes...big mistake!

Most of the book consists of unrestrained praise of Stalin...exactly the kind of "over the top" hagiography that I've learned to deeply distrust.

Whenever I run into it, I know lies are being told and then I have the problem of figuring out what's really plausible and what could not possibly have happened. This is, needless to add, a royal pain in the ass.

I once promised Cassius Clay that I would review the whole book...but I've just put it off because it would be laborious to separate out the good stuff from the crap.

I don't deny that Stalin (or any of the 20th century communists) were "sincere" or had "good intentions" or "were trying to do the right thing".

I just think that the experience of 20th century communism showed that they (all of them) were wrong.

Thus I tend to find the lingering, acrimonious debates over who was the "revisionist", who was the "right deviationist", who was "ultra-left", and who was "really a cop", all to be sterile and even theological.

What do we gain from such "debates"?

:redstar2000:

The Redstar2000 Papers (http://www.redstar2000papers.fightcapitalism.net)
A site about communist ideas

[Invader Zim]

I once promised Cassius Clay that I would review the whole book...but I've just put it off because it would be laborious to separate out the good stuff from the crap.

Im not sure if you are aware, but Enver Hoxha is cassius clay.

[bunk]

Originally posted by [email protected] 19 2004, 01:36 AM
I once promised Cassius Clay that I would review the whole book...but I've just put it off because it would be laborious to separate out the good stuff from the crap.

Im not sure if you are aware, but Enver Hoxha is cassius clay.
Muhammed Ali was Cassius Clay

[commie kg]

I think there was a few other Cassius Clay accounts. I seem to remember him posting in Chit-Chat under the name Enver Hoxha.

[Invader Zim]

Originally posted by [email protected] 19 2004, 08:00 AM
Muhammed Ali was Cassius Clay
Cassius Clay the member of this message board, the one refered to in Redstars post, not the boxer.

[elijahcraig]

Muhammed Ali was Cassius Clay

If you weren't kidding you are really stupid.

[Daymare17]

Originally posted by [email protected] 22 2004, 07:34 PM

If you weren't kidding you are really stupid.
Why are you so unpleasant? Can't let go of an opportunity to insult people can you?

[elijahcraig]

Why are you so unpleasant? Can't let go of an opportunity to insult people can you?

You're a fag.

[Daymare17]

It is a great honor to create antipathy in vermin like you.

[elijahcraig]

Don't insult me.

[STI]

*Slaps Elijahcraig