Alternative culture - Refuse/Resist

[Revolution2002]

If any of you people have r e a l anti-coperation cultures i would love to here them. Here's my thesis:

Classical music is a sort of opposition. It may not be active but it is necessary if you want the support of the elitist left in some countries. Art and phillosophy and whatever that have been seen until now as rich-people-time-passes also fit in this category. tell me what you think...

[I Will Deny You]

Quote: from Revolution2002 on 12:38 pm on Mar. 30, 2002
If any of you people have r e a l anti-coperation cultures i would love to here them.I personally think that the established anti-establishment is hypocritical.

I'm into philosophy but when I took philosophy courses in college, all the kids in that class were full of shit. I understand that philosophy applies to life as a whole, but these kids would factor existentialist philosophy into choices about which shoes that they'd wear. They'd consider elitism when choosing toilet paper at the grocery store. They were basically poseurs who tried too hard to be philosophical. I hated them. I think about philosophy, but not that much.

And as for art, I know a lot of local artists because my boyfriend is very "into" the art scene. The artists he hangs out with, however, don't have their own culture, per se, nor do they want one. He hangs out with artists who create art for one reason and one reason only: to make things that look nice. They're not your typical artists who try to pour emotion into everything that they do. They certainly aren't shallow people, but they save emotion for when they're not working and when they do work, they try to make what will look nicest to them. You won't see any poo-on-the-queen's-face from them. My thoughts about art are heavily influenced by them.

I just do what I want to. When I hear a song that I like, whether it's classical, dance or rock, I listen to it. I read books by philosophers that I agree and identify with. I look at art that interests me. I'm sick of people who do everything to make a statement--listen to music that makes a statement, buy art that makes a statement. Don't get me wrong, there is certainly nothing bad about making statements, but you shouldn't live your life just to do so.

[James]

I strongly agree.




Well said

[guerrillaradio]

Quote: from I Will Deny You on 7:36 pm on Mar. 30, 2002
[quote]I personally think that the established anti-establishment is hypocritical.

I'm into philosophy but when I took philosophy courses in college, all the kids in that class were full of shit. I understand that philosophy applies to life as a whole, but these kids would factor existentialist philosophy into choices about which shoes that they'd wear. They'd consider elitism when choosing toilet paper at the grocery store. They were basically poseurs who tried too hard to be philosophical. I hated them. I think about philosophy, but not that much.



I disagree. If people want to let philosophy influence every corner of their life, let them. You seem to forget that many of the people on this board let their political views take control of their lives, including what shoes they wear. Are you suggesting that that is also wrong?? Existentialism makes more sense to me than Communism, to be quite honest, but that's only my opinion. The bottom line is people are just as moral in living completely existentialist lives as they are living completely socialistic lives.

[Revolution2002]

I must agree with guerillaradio.

Take Those chinese guys, i dont remember their name, Something gong. i admire them and their actions.

[TheDerminator]

Must admit, that I feel that until there is some movement in the paralysed Internationalist Socialist movement, that all this boycottism is just self-righteous tokenism.



Resistance is Futile!

May the Force be with U!

derminated

(Edited by TheDerminator at 3:29 pm on Mar. 31, 2002)

[I Will Deny You]

I won't buy Adidas shoes, for example, because they're made in sweatshops. But I'm talking about kids who already have 3 pairs of shoes and will tell their friends that they chose the blue pair because Heidegger inspired them. There's a huge difference.

I let my political philosophy influence my life where it's necessary. When I chose my career path, of course it had an influence. But if I'm can't decide what cheese to put on my sandwich, I really don't think that socialism is especially relevant there.

Someone who is really aware philosophically will be able to make the distinction between necessary consideration and bullshitting through the day.

[sabre]

"Take Those chinese guys, i dont remember their name, Something gong. i admire them and their actions. "

Lao Tzu? Creater of Taoism? http://www.clas.ufl.edu/users/gthursby/tao...sm/ttcmerel.htm (http://www.clas.ufl.edu/users/gthursby/taoism/ttcmerel.htm) (entire Tao Te Ching - in my belief the most deep piece of writing ever)

Confucius? Creater of Confucianism?

(Edited by sabre at 6:13 pm on Mar. 31, 2002)

[Moskitto]

I was trying to explain to my brother why you can be a Taoist and a christian and he was saying stuff like "But according to scripture, Jesus is the only way to god and Taoism believes people find their own way to god."

I should have said something like "According to scripture you can't serve money and god, so stop being a capitalist." Or "According to Lao Tse, there is more than 1 way so the bible is wrong."

[guerrillaradio]

Quote: from Revolution2002 on 3:05 pm on Mar. 31, 2002
Take Those chinese guys, i dont remember their name, Something gong. i admire them and their actions.


Falun Gong. They're currently being persecuted by the Chinese authorities for little or no reason...

[MJM]

Falun gong is a cult. Have you seen them protest? Talk about brainwashed.
If I was the leader of China I'd ban them too.

[guerrillaradio]

Erm...I dunno, there's probably two sides to it. The way I was told it I was led to believe that they were a peaceful spiritual group who posed no threat to China's authorities at all. Maybe you've been brainwashed...

[Angie]

There is certainly two sides to it. The 'cult' side is based primarily in China, agreed, but it's not all-encompassing (and a lot of people often claim that it's not particularly damaging either, but that's basically down to personal judgement, I guess.)

The thing that has made it stand out so much is that it's popular because of it's form of exercise / meditation. It's an alternative to Tai Chi, basically, and it's that element of it that has made it cross the planet so rapidly.

That's the main reason why you'll always hear about Westerners getting arrested in China for participating in Falun Gong - the good majority of them aren't doing it for any cult-beliefs, but for the beautiful, peaceful movements.

I don't know ... I've seen a documentary on it, I've seen why they might call it a cult, seen the "brainwashing", etc., but I figure if they're not hurting anyone else in the process of reaching their enlightenment or whatever it is they're aiming for, then there's really little to no harm in it. Obviously the government wouldn't like it because they're living by their own rules, not that of everyday society.

[honest intellectual]

The Falun Gong get a lot of sympathy from the West because of their persecution but the truth is that they are a weirdo cult

[munkey soup]

I know little to nothin about the falun gong, but before you label them as a cult, take a look at all religions, objectively.

-Christianity believes that there is a being, somewhere, who looks like humans (except is probably really big) who created the earth from nothing, whom no one has ever seen, who controls the world, the universe and everything else.

-Buddhism believes that we become reincarnated into different forms of life depending on if we were good or bad in our previous life, if one is accomplished enough in his/her meditation they will be able to 'see' things all over the world all at once.

-Jews can't eat pork but can eat beef.

-If a male Muslim dies for Islam, he recieves a bunch of virgins in heaven.

And etc. I'm not saying religion is wrong, but be careful when you start to call other religions cults. (I'm not saying all of you are religious either, but don't just pick on the 'weirdo cult' religions, pick on them all).

[MJM]

Well I'd condider most if not all religions cults, so I'm a bit bias.

If you get a chance, go out in the coldest rainy day and watch them protest, it's pretty scary.
As far as whether they pose a threat to the govt. or not it's irrelevent to me, it's whether they pose a threat to the lives and minds of the people they recruit.