Unquestioned Dogma

[Salvador Allende]

It seems ever since Ronald Reagan died many Socialists and other left-wingers have sold out their beliefs and bought into the rightists unquestioned dogma that Reagan was the master of all things. By even saying Reagan was a good man, you denounce all leftist views and buy into rightism. Reagan was a horrible man who invaded 3 countries, bombed 2 cities and a country, helped fund and supply Saddam Hussein and created horrible propaganda by saying Khruschovism was the Socialism we all believe in.

Reagan was not a good man and I beg all of you to not sell out your views just because a man died. All men die, but just because they do it does not make them a good person all of a sudden.

[DaCuBaN]

Having been involved in the attack on every thread raised along the lines of "Hallelujah! Reagen's snuffed it!" I must disagree to at least some extent.

The man is dead, we need not worry on him. From here we should not be attacking the man directly but at his ideologies. By victimising him we risk the chance of helping to promote the aforementioned by isolating certain groups in society.


It seems ever since Ronald Reagan died many Socialists and other left-wingers have sold out their beliefs and bought into the rightists unquestioned dogma that Reagan was the master of all things

Show me one post where a leftist has said he was a good man, or even did good things? The closest I can find is the assertion that he did what he thought was right. This is hardly the same thing.


Reagan was a horrible man who invaded 3 countries, bombed 2 cities and a country, helped fund and supply Saddam Hussein and created horrible propaganda by saying Khruschovism was the Socialism we all believe in

He did indeed do some terrible things, but why do you all feel the need to come out after his death and state this? Morbid fascination? Too cowardly to do it whilst he might have been in earshot?

[Salvador Allende]

The exact opposite Da Cuban, I said he was horrible when he was alive and will continue to say so now. But, I see many people who change their views just because he has died.

[DaCuBaN]

I see many people who change their views just because he has died

Just as I see many doing exactly the same but from the other perspective - for whatever reason now the man is dead they turn around and slate him. He's been out of office for 20 years, and we all knew what he did. Why attack him now? We've had the past two decades to do it.

Now the man is dead, all that this kind of thing does is to alienate people who didn't think he was an asshole. One of the reagan threads has (as someone put it) turned into a Reagan reality thread - this is all fine and well. However I believe there are currently three threads on the man, two of which contain nothing but the likes of this:

"he's an asshole, and I'm glad I'm dead"

And I was under the impression that one-liners were a warning offense!

To summarise, slating this man without providing evidence does nothing, and this is precisely what I've been objecting to the entire time.

[Salvador Allende]

common knowledge. It is very common knowledge and impossible to dispute his invasions of Panama and Grenada, his intervention in Nicaragua, his attacks on Libya, his bombing of Beirut, his support of Saddam Hussein or the fact that he said all Socialism was like the Khruschovist USSR.

[DaCuBaN]

You are preaching to the converted here <_<

I already know what was bad about the man - I merely don&#39;t see the point in screaming out that your &#39;glad the fucker is dead - good riddance&#39; and the like.

It serves no purpose other than the exercise on your ego - that you are a &#39;better&#39; person than he was

That&#39;s not exactly difficult now, is(was, even) it ;)

[Salvador Allende]

I am simply saying we, as leftists should not sell out by saying he was a great man and a good leader. That is all.

[DaCuBaN]

On that point we agree... is this a warning, or a rebuttal though?

If the former, I nullify my argument - your point is indeed valid, if the latter then please provide evidence where someone asserted his &#39;goodness&#39; that would be considered a leftist.

Initially I (evidently) thought the latter, but I think I&#39;m beginning to get you...

[praxis1966]

If I can play C3-PO to Allende&#39;s R2-D2 for a moment, I do believe his initial post was a warning, unnecessary as it may have been.

[fuerzasocialista]

Reagan was just your prototypical american president; Invaded countries, killed people, sponsored terrorism, killed more people etc

[dopediana]

but, macorix, the issue here is that though he was your typical evil guy he is being revered as one of if not the greatest president ever...

[fuerzasocialista]

its not the least bit surprising that they are revering him as a great president and so forth. its the american propaganda machine at work.

[dopediana]

well, not only did reagan commit atrocities towards other nations but he also was strongly against many americans. gay ones to be specific.

Published on Tuesday, June 8, 2004 by CommonDreams.org


A Letter to My Best Friend, Steven Powsner On the Death of Former President Ronald Reagan


by Matt Foreman





Dear Steven,

I so much wish you were here today to tell me what to do. You would know if it&#39;s right to comment on the death of former President Reagan, or if I should just let pass the endless paeans to his greatness. But you&#39;re not here. The policies of the Reagan administration saw to that.

Yes, Steven, I do feel for the family and friends of the former President. The death of a loved one is always a profoundly sad occasion, and Mr. Reagan was loved by many. I have tremendous empathy and respect for Mrs. Reagan, who lovingly cared for him through excruciating years of Alzheimer&#39;s.

Sorry, Steven, but even on this day I&#39;m not able to set aside the shaking anger I feel over Reagan&#39;s non-response to the AIDS epidemic or for the continuing anti-gay legacy of his administration. Is it personal? Of course. AIDS was first reported in 1981, but President Reagan could not bring himself to address the plague until March 31, 1987, at which time there were 60,000 reported cases of full-blown AIDS and 30,000 deaths. I remember that day, Steven - you were staying round-the-clock in Memorial Sloan Kettering Hospital caring for your dying partner of over 15 years, Bruce Cooper. It was another 41 days of utter agony for both of you before Bruce died. During those years of White House silence and inaction, how many other dear friends did we see sicken and die hideous deaths?

Is it personal? Yes, Steven. I know for a fact that you would be alive today if the Reagan administration had mounted even a tepid response to the epidemic. If protease inhibitors been available in July of 1995 instead of December, you&#39;d still be here.

I wouldn&#39;t feel so angry if the Reagan administration&#39;s failing was due to ignorance or bureaucratic ineptitude. No, Steven, we knew then it was deliberate. The government&#39;s response was dictated by the grip of evangelical Christian conservatives who saw gay people as sinners and AIDS as God&#39;s well-deserved punishment. Remember? The White House Director of Communications, Patrick Buchanan, once argued in print that AIDS is nature&#39;s revenge on gay men. Reagan&#39;s Secretary of Education, William Bennett, and his domestic policy adviser, Gary Bauer, made sure that science (and basic tenets of Christianity, for that matter) never got in the way of politics or what they saw as "God&#39;s" work.

Even so, I think I could let go of this anger if this was just another overwhelmingly sad chapter in our nation&#39;s past. It is not. Steven, can you believe that the unholy pact President Reagan and the Republican Party entered with the forces of religious intolerance have not weakened, but grown exponentially stronger? Can you believe that the U.S. government is still bowing to right wing extremists and fighting condom distribution and explicit HIV education, even while AIDS is killing millions across the world? Or that "devout" Christians have forced the scrapping of AIDS prevention programs targeted at HIV-negative gay and bisexual men in favor of bullshit "abstinence only until marriage" initiatives? Or the shameless duplicity of these same forces seeking to forever outlaw even the hope of marriage for gay people? Or that Reagan stalwarts like Buchanan, Bennett and Bauer are still grinding their homophobic axes?

No, Steven, I do not presume to judge Ronald Reagan&#39;s soul or heart. He may very well have been a nice guy. In fact, I don&#39;t think that Reagan hated gay people -- I&#39;m sure some of his and Nancy&#39;s best friends were gay. But I do know that the Reagan administration&#39;s policies on AIDS and anything gay-related resulted - and continue to result - in despair and death.

Oh, Steven, how much I wish so much you were here.

Matt

(On November 20, 1995, Steven Powsner, died of complications from AIDS at age 40. He had been President of the New York City Lesbian and Gay Community Services Center from 1992-1994.)