Do you believe US is a Democracy?

[Pepo]

Mr Colombia thinks the world still calls and see US is the biggest and best Democracy.

My idea is to give an opportunity to all to express an honest opinion if US is or isn't a Democracy.

Make you comments or simply answer yeas or no

DO YOU BELIEVE US IS A DEMOCRACY?

I DON'T

[fernando]

Well they claim to be a democracy, it is more an "indirect" democracy sort of, I mean you can vote for your leader, but if he will dowhat you want is another question...

And uhm...the whole voting system of the US is weird...so if the Democrats win in Florida by one vote, they get all the votes of Florida, or something like that...strange Yankees

[Colombia]

If you don't beleive the US is a democracy than what country would you say is a federal republic?Also what country do you live in?

Fernando where is the source of the US military using weed?

[Funky Monk]

At a crude level the US is in some ways a democracy, strictly speaking the Congress and the President are elected by a proportion of the electorate and govern in their name and usually their interests.

On the other hand representation is definately lacking, the President is elected by a minority of the electorate (let alone the population) and the people are provided with a very poor choice of candidates.

I think it is impossible to say that the US isnt a democracy, its just a not very good one.

[Pepo]

I would say US is more about an ILUSION.

I get elections to have the idea you have a choice. The choices are limited Democrats and Republicans have some differences but not too many.
US doesn´t know what is to govern needing other party, cooligations and so on.

After voting people are not really asked for anything. Can anyone tell me when did US had a referendum?

[Kez]

how can it possibly be considered a democracy if the ruling class have an advantage over the working class in terms of buying airtime, paper space and so on???

[James]

well you can get matching funds once you are popular enough. Imagine the expenses if everyone who stood was able to get state funded elections!

There a numerous examples of candidates spending amazing amounts of money, often outspending their opponents by far - but still loosing.


Yes america is a far way from being a perfect democracy - but it certainly has strong elements.

[refuse_resist]

Calling the U.$. a democracy is just the elitist way of hiding the fact that it isn't and is far from being one.

[DaCuBaN]

The US is a democracy - it's a Democratic Republic

What most people don't seem to realise is that this system is absurd and democracy in this form is not 'rule of the people' in any way. Although it is democracy by the dictionary definition, it does not conform to the spirit of democracy

But to most, they cannot see the difference, and hence the US is indeed the poster child of modern democracy.

Can you point out a 'better' example of democracy? Canada, UK, France, Germany all use this 'democratic republic' model to run their states - elected representatives.

[fernando]

Fernando where is the source of the US military using weed?
I didnt say the US used weed, I said the Dutch Marines sell and sniff cocain. I also said that the US stole cocain from Colombia in the 80 so they can buy weapons for Iran.

But now I feel stupid for not having a source, so I will shut up about drugs and americans for now...until I can prove it to you *feels really stupid and ashamed* :unsure:

EDIT: doodee....I found a link on this drug/USA thingie: http://www.larouchespeaks.net/pages/bush_dope_1.html

you have to read the whole thing though, not just the first page

[Funky Monk]

To slightly alter a quote, the US is the least democratic country, apart from all the others.

[Fidel Castro]

The idea of a United States democracy is an illusion. The simple fact is that the masses only get an oppertunity to vote for the candidates approved by those who lavish money on political parties, and the elite.

[DaCuBaN]

The idea of a United States democracy is an illusion. The simple fact is that the masses only get an oppertunity to vote for the candidates approved by those who lavish money on political parties, and the elite.

Much like on my route home from work there's 50ft banner on some toffs lawn saying vote conservative - I spotted it on the way home

I finish work (shifts) on wed night... guess tonight I'm going to have to make up a giant 'don't' poster to stick above it :D

Again though, it is democracy by the 'modern' dictionary. It's just not people-rule as democracy (from the greek) really means. Representative Democracy is democracy nonetheless.

[Agent provocateur]

Originally posted by [email protected] 7 2004, 04:53 PM
Mr Colombia thinks the world still calls and see US is the biggest and best Democracy.

My idea is to give an opportunity to all to express an honest opinion if US is or isn't a Democracy.

Make you comments or simply answer yeas or no

DO YOU BELIEVE US IS A DEMOCRACY?

I DON'T
I don't believe it is a democracy either.


http://www.flonnet.com/fl1824/18241170.htm

[Pepo]

Hey Mr Colombia,

Do you still believe that only few people thnik that america is a democracy, or a good democracy?

As far as I know the film Fahrenheit 9/11 has big problems to come out in cinemas across US.

By the way, if anyone know more details about the story I would be please to read.
Is the film coming out in US or not?

[Hate Is Art]

Can someone explain how the US voting system works?

[h&s]

Can someone explain how the US voting system works?
It doesn't! :D

[Kez]

the matching funds dont equal the highest spends, so its fuckin pointless

Kerry has alreaady spend half a billion

[h&s]

A country in which a person has to spend hundreds of millions of dollars to get elected can not possibly be considered a democracy.
There should be a limit as to how much people are allowed to spend on elections, so that normal people get as much publicity as the super-rich.

[Colombia]

Originally posted by Fidel [email protected] 8 2004, 12:45 AM
The idea of a United States democracy is an illusion. The simple fact is that the masses only get an oppertunity to vote for the candidates approved by those who lavish money on political parties, and the elite.
And in a communist nation such as Cuba, the people don't even get the choice of who is their leader.Sure makes everyone sound equal.

[Kez]

Why teh fuck is this bellend not restricted yet?

The workers of Cuba chose their leader with the General Strike

Sure democracy is poor, and it must be improved, but its better and more representative than the US system

[fernando]

The whole 2-part-system doesnt do it for me...you can only choose between 2 morons...you can choose between two warlike corrupt people.

In Holland we have more parties, so we have a bit more diversity...

[Pepo]

Originally posted by [email protected] 8 2004, 11:52 AM
And in a communist nation such as Cuba, the people don't even get the choice of who is their leader.Sure makes everyone sound equal.
For your information Cuba, might not be a Democratic system but if the system fails in Cuba a big part of it is due to the economical embargo.

If you are well informed, the expectance of life is as high as in the US and CUBA has one of the highest rates of qualified people. All of them know how to read, a big percentage has a degree and everyone must learn some profession.

If CUBA had the possibility to free market, maybe they could prove that their own system can work.
But since were fascists to dictate the rules, they were not allowed.

I want to mention something.
As far as I know in European countries nobody was killed during the Democratic System because of his political belief. Here I can be comunist and there are comunists for decades without being afraid to be killed or descriminated by society.

How many US citizens were killed and Judged as being no patriotic because of their comunist ideology. Do you call that democracy.

I call it FASCISM

[katie mccready]

NO the us nor uk are a democrcy for a democracy you have to aply popet

p: political freedom

o: openess

p: freedom of press, fredom to join a political party or pressur grupe

e: equalety

t: tolerance


ps sory abut the spelling im dislexic. :D

[h&s]

Well said. The UK electoral system is the most archaic and undemocratic in Europe. How can we be called democratic when the ultimate desisons on our laws are made by unelected, landowning toffs?
As for the freedom of press, Michael Moore had to miss a chapter out of "stupid white men" because our government banned him from printing it.

And in a communist nation such as Cuba, the people don't even get the choice of who is their leader.Sure makes everyone sound equal.

Do you even have one leftist view?

[Colombia]

Originally posted by Pepo+Jun 8 2004, 01:10 PM--> (Pepo @ Jun 8 2004, 01:10 PM)
[email protected] 8 2004, 11:52 AM
And in a communist nation such as Cuba, the people don't even get the choice of who is their leader.Sure makes everyone sound equal.
For your information Cuba, might not be a Democratic system but if the system fails in Cuba a big part of it is due to the economical embargo.

If you are well informed, the expectance of life is as high as in the US and CUBA has one of the highest rates of qualified people. All of them know how to read, a big percentage has a degree and everyone must learn some profession.

If CUBA had the possibility to free market, maybe they could prove that their own system can work.
But since were fascists to dictate the rules, they were not allowed.

I want to mention something.
As far as I know in European countries nobody was killed during the Democratic System because of his political belief. Here I can be comunist and there are comunists for decades without being afraid to be killed or descriminated by society.

How many US citizens were killed and Judged as being no patriotic because of their comunist ideology. Do you call that democracy.

I call it FASCISM [/b]
When the embargo first started the USSR came and helped the Cubans with their economical problems. This however failed because Fidel Castro decided that Ernesto Guevara was a so called "expert" in economics. Besides didn't Fidel Castro say in multiple interviews back in the day that is government was planning to turn to the left.

I am well informed.I didn't say that the people there in Cuba were fools.

Cuba can still trade with many countries.I don't beleive that they needed to rely on the US too much besides the sugar.

Yes and how many people in the USSR were killed and judged as not being patriotic because of their race, political views, and color?Do you call that communism?

I call it a DICTATORSHIP.

[DaCuBaN]

Originally posted by [email protected] 8 2004, 06:12 PM
When the embargo first started the USSR came and helped the Cubans with their economical problems. This however failed because Fidel Castro decided that Ernesto Guevara was a so called "expert" in economics. Besides didn't Fidel Castro say in multiple interviews back in the day that is government was planning to turn to the left.
Indeed the USSR did come to the aid of Cuba after their closest economic power abandonded them on the basis that a) they feared the ideology that appeared to be taking root and b) they did not like Castro. A whole country now suffers because of these absurd objections.


I am well informed.I didn't say that the people there in Cuba were fools.

Cuba can still trade with many countries.I don't beleive that they needed to rely on the US too much besides the sugar.


It was never a matter of them relying on the US for their survival - the fact that despite the embargo the country is still standing (albeit barely) is evidence enough of this fact. The point being made is that using cuba as the benchmark for socialism cannot work as the embargo unevens the playing field, giving an unjust view of Cuban socialism.



Yes and how many people in the USSR were killed and judged as not being patriotic because of their race, political views, and color?Do you call that communism?

I call it a DICTATORSHIP.


I call it totalitarianism, but I guess it's one and the same. Only the most 'extreme' leftists consider the USSR to be communist, and there are many feel it barely even qualified as a socialist country.

I believe most would assert it was 'State Capitalist'

[refuse_resist]

Originally posted by Digital [email protected] 8 2004, 08:23 AM
Can someone explain how the US voting system works?
Here's how they work...

http://bushflash.com/gta.html

[apathy maybe]

Democracy is rule by the people. No matter what you say, that is what it means.

Therefore no country is democractic. Some are more so then others (such as Switzerland) and the USA ranks pretty low.

What you have in the USA is sorta representocracy (rule by the representitive) but it isn't very represenitive.

Here is an essay on the US Presidential Election system.
http://www.che-lives.com/forum/index.php?showtopic=24734&hl=

[fuerzasocialista]

I would call this a corporate democracy and a corporate republic. as for the rest of us, we simply don't matter.

[Pepo]

Originally posted by [email protected] 8 2004, 06:12 PM

Cuba can still trade with many countries.I don't beleive that they needed to rely on the US too much besides the sugar.

Yes and how many people in the USSR were killed and judged as not being patriotic because of their race, political views, and color?Do you call that communism?

I call it a DICTATORSHIP.
You are right, USSR was also a Fascist system, but everyone knew about it, on the other hand US always says to be free, democratic, the best and an example of freedom to the world - Bullshit...

About Cuba, well, if you take the potencial biggest client of Cuba how can they comercial compete?

You still don't see it? Nobody is saying that USSR was great or that Cuba is democratic. Just trying here to show that US fails to be Democratic and that the biggest mistake is to tell the world that must follow the same system.

[h&s]

Originally posted by refuse_resist+Jun 9 2004, 03:14 AM--> (refuse_resist @ Jun 9 2004, 03:14 AM)
Digital [email protected] 8 2004, 08:23 AM
Can someone explain how the US voting system works?
Here's how they work...

http://bushflash.com/gta.html[/b]
I've read all of that before, but that animaton pretty much sums up the question "is the U$ a democracy?"
NO!

Also, how can a country be a democracy if it bans people from voting just because they have commited a crime?

[DaCuBaN]

Also, how can a country be a democracy if it bans people from voting just because they have commited a crime?

To an extent I can see the sense in this, but I find the application of it used in the US absurd. I think this would make an excellent form of punishment in some cases, but it shouldn't be applied to every crime - It could however be applied as form of sentence.

However, no matter what definitions people put on democracy, it means rule of the people. The US has a rule over the people, just as in the UK and this is not a true democracy.

It is, however, a representative one.

[h&s]

The fact that the U$ do not let ex-criminals vote just shows that they have no interest in rehabilitating them.

[Colombia]

Originally posted by hammer&[email protected] 9 2004, 09:06 AM


Also, how can a country be a democracy if it bans people from voting just because they have commited a crime?
Wrong.If you have done time you are still allowed to vote in the USA.Do your math.

[h&s]

OK, as I am not American how wold I know how the system works?

Yes and how many people in the USSR were killed and judged as not being patriotic because of their race, political views, and color?Do you call that communism?

No. That is not communism.

[Lacrimi de Chiciură]

I liked the Grand Theft America flash.

[Colombia]

Which brings up the question.Has there ever even been a communist nation?

[fernando]

No there hasnt been a communist nation...they are all revolution with a communist or socialist nature, but they are not communist

[refuse_resist]

The U.$. is a Plutocracy. The only thing it represents are all the rich and wealthy, as well as all the corporations.

The death penalty is practiced here and torturing of prisoners is very common in prisons. It also has been the world's leading prison-state per capita for the last 25 years, with an exception during Boris Yelstin's declaration of a state of emergency. That means when Reagan was talking about a Soviet "evil empire" he was head of a state that imprisoned more people per capita. It holds a half million more prisoners than China, even though China is four times our population.

[h&s]

Which brings up the question.Has there ever even been a communist nation?
No. Just people like those in Russia and China using the communist name.

[Colombia]

So I guess communism has never even existed. <_<

[fuerzasocialista]

True Socialism or Communism has never existed not even in Cuba. Right when you think its about to happen, something always gets in the way. Unfortunately for Cuba, it was getting stuck between American aggression and Soviet resistance.