The IRA: Guerilla Fighters or Terrorists?

[MaQuIs]

Now what I am looking for here is not a judgment by feelings or personal influences, I want a honest look at this for all those that read this.

Given the tactics and the situation that the IRA has, do you believe that they are more terrorists, or guerilla fighters?

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"It's not the fall that kills you, it's the sudden stop."

[Anonymous]

Which IRA are u talkin about, present day, the RIRA, PIRA, old IRA ??

[MaQuIs]

Present Day, but you can include your thoughts on the PIRA if you wish.


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"Just because your not paranoid does not mean their not out to get you."

[Zippy]

Its really strange at the minute. We have the real IRA, but they are different from the Real IRA, who arent really real and are just a side branch of the real IRA who are real, and one does one thing and the real one does another thing, and im left wondering which one is really real and which isnt really real.
Confused ? That was their plan all along.

Zippy.

[guerrillaradio]

The IRA are terrorists. I know there's quite a few Irish people on this board, and probably people who support the IRA, but they are terrorists pure and simple. They have targeted innocent civilians, often only because of their sub-religon (Protestant or Catholic). To me, that is nothing more than religious discimination. Granted that the British are no angels either in Ireland (stupid fuckwits we are), but that doesn't make the IRA's cause anymore righteous.

[Anonymous]

There is no difference between terrorists and freedom fighters, it depends on which side you look at it from , your a brit so you say they are terrorists i say they are freedom fighters, even that mandelson fella called the ira freedom fighters. Again are you talkin about the rira?

[guerrillaradio]

My definition of freedom fighters is people who bomb military targets and soldiers. The IRA blow up civilians because they are Protestant.

[Commisar BOB]

the i.r.a. are fighters of a cause, terrorists/freedom fighters are all the same. Bin Laden was fighting for a cause. His cause was an end to American opression. the i.r.a. want freedom from britain.

[revolutionary spirit]

i'm irish,family members of mine have been in the IRA and done time and i see them,as i regret,terrorists.Yes,of course i support their cause but their methods i disagree with.They should not be targeting fellow workers just because they happen to be protestant.For one we need to win over the protestant community to have a union i feel.The IRA shuold target government officals and such.Killing the man on the street is not going to get us anywhere.

(Edited by revolutionary spirit at 6:26 pm on Mar. 25, 2002)

[Derar]

well they've been put on the american list of terrorists ..... becoz they were a threat to their suckers ( the brit. government ) .....
And succefully they did some succeful attacks , like in 1984 when they blowed up magrete tacher's hotel room .... unfortunately she wasnt there ..... but some of the other assholes died !

[peaccenicked]

The victims of State terrorism are collateral damage.
The innocent life lost by civilians in individual terror
is used as a reason to cease targetting the military.
Collateral damage which includes state murder is hidden
in the counter productive mistakes, crimes of those who stand up to State terror. How much of this has been the acts of agent provocateurs? How much rogue operators who are in the movement to cause mayhem?
War was and is very dirty. If no side will surrender, let us suport the peace process, after all Nelson Mandela was a terrorist.

[Anonymous]

For FUCK Sake guys please show which IRA you are talkin about, Derar it was the Real IRA that were put on 'the list', the Original IRA were freedom fighters not terrorists.

[elizquierdista]

The IRA are simply freedom fighters. From what I hear, see and read, the IRA's main objective is to fully extract the British from Ireland (both Ireland and N.Ireland). I see them as guerrilla fighters, such as the ELN in Colombia. Both, in my opinion, would gladly have peace once foreign "influence" is gone.

[revolutionary spirit]

the IRA of the '20's were not terrorists

[pastradamus]

The fucking word "terrorist" should be destroyed from the english language.It was abused too much by the yanks.
The modern day IRA & The IRA of old are all freedom fighters.*full stop*

[Anonymous]

The Real IRA are terrorists
The IRA are not terrorists
There were no IRA in the twenties, they were the Irish Volunteers.
The Provisional IRA were strange militants. FINAL

[revolutionary spirit]

the modern day IRA and their break away factions are terrorists,no doubt about it.

[Pneuma]

Until I see things firsthand, I am reluctant to believe in much these days. However, I do believe that the "IRA" has been falsely portrayed by the media much in the same way as the Palestinians - ruthless terrorists slaughtering innocent civilians needlessly. The research I have done has shown me that whenever civilians have been killed by the "IRA" it was due largely to tactical errors. I know that the US is pretty bad, but let's not kid ourselves thinking the Brits are any better.

[revolutionary spirit]

so when the IRA place a bomb in a pub they were not aiming to kill as many civilans as possible?Were they hoping that thatcher or someone would strole in?

[MaQuIs]

when the IRA usually did something of that nature then it was because that they were aiming for a paticular target (or targets as the Pub might be frequented by large numbers of Crown forces or Orangmen, etc.) or the fact that the attack might be retribution for an attack on innocent catholic by protestants.

Or perhaps they might be trying to strike terror into a protestant area so as to envoke fear and try to send a message as to not screw with catholics.

Read "Killing Rage" by Eamon Collins to understand how the IRA is run at times and what it is like (or was) on the inside.

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"It's not the fall that kills you, it's the sudden stop"

[guerrillaradio]

Quote: from Pneuma on 7:17 pm on Mar. 28, 2002
I do believe that the "IRA" has been falsely portrayed by the media much in the same way as the Palestinians - ruthless terrorists slaughtering innocent civilians needlessly. The research I have done has shown me that whenever civilians have been killed by the "IRA" it was due largely to tactical errors.


Wrong. The IRA and all their factions, splinter groups, allies, whatever, are all doing the same thing: killing civillians because they are on the wrong side of a religion. Don't fuck me around with this freedom fighter shit, they are just hate-filled bigots.

[MaQuIs]

Oh really, and what do you think protestant and unionist militant groups do all the time huh?

They do just what you said, they kill people because they are on the wrong side of the religion. One of the reasons that the IRA will do things such as the before mentioned is because that a unionist or protestant militant group went on a rampage killing innocent catholics simply because they were catholic.

It is a FACT that catholics have been treated as 2nd class citizens since the time the English came to rule over them. Even now it is happening. Just ask anyone who has grown up in the troubles, they are beaten up, , raped, and discriminated against simply because they are catholic and they do not care for the current goverment rule.

The IRA like anyone make mistakes and kill the innocent, but that's what happens in war, it's called COLLATERAL DAMAGE. I do condone and regret the killing of the innocent by the IRA, but that's what happens in war.

The IRA want simply one thing, a free Northern Ireland. There is no reason for the British to continue to rule N. Ireland. There is no strategic reason military wise, there are no natural resources that is vital for the UK that is needed there, etc.

And the argument that the majority want to remain in the UK is going away as the years go. Most catholics are republican and the country's catholic population is at 49% and rising. Soon the majority of N. Ireland will want to be free and that argument will no longer be valid.

The IRA are freedom fighters, plain and simple. The fact that they use terrorist tactics seems to overshadow their goals.

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"It's not the fall the kills you, it's the sudden stop."

[guerrillaradio]

You missed my point. All the terrorists (yes, terrorists) are as bad as each other. I wasn't trying to make out that the Irish Protestants were anymore moral than the Irish Catholics. Whatever injustices Irish Catholics may have faced, they do not justify the constant killings I have come used to watching on the news. Freedom fighters don't go on revenge killings that you seem to condone so easily. They're no longer fighting for a cause, they are just killing people they dislike. It sickens me that so-called leftists can ally themselves with a cause so rooted in hate and nationalism.

[MaQuIs]

Read about the IRA, I mean REALLY read about them.

Just killing people they don't like? What a load of crap. Read the first hand accounts of people like Eamon Collins who were in the IRA and see the people that he helped kill, British soldiers (occupying troops) UDR members (militants who kill innocent catholics), and others which help to ensure British imperialsim.

The ends justify the means.

[guerrillaradio]

I beg to differ. I am not armed with statistics, as they drag down debate, but I know that the IRA have murdered an obscene amount of innocent civilians. So maybe they've killed a few soldiers as well. Big deal. There's a difference between collateral damage and all-out terrorism. Anyways, gotta go. I'll post longer on this tomorrow.

[honest intellectual]

A united Ireland can be achieved by peacful means. Not right now, but pretty fuckin soon
Any republican faction which continues to use violence in the current political climate is no more than a fucking terrorist group.
Violence should only be used when there is no alternative solution, which there is at the moment.

[MaQuIs]

I agree completely, that is why I am glad to see that the IRA has kept it's cease-fire that has been in effect since 1998. Even in the midst of the killing of innocent catholics by protestant groups in an effort to try and draw out the IRA, they show a amazing ammount of restraint for a group of murders.

Now I will admit that there are in the organization flat out idiots, murdering theives, and assholes, there are also honorable and noble men whom are there because of their morals.

And as for lagging down debate with statistics, for god's sake without the facts to back up your arguments, then it is the simple minded ramblings of a simple minded prick who cannot back up his words with anything more than his bloated opinion.

It is a fact that innocents have died in N. Ireland, but they were not flat out right murders, not a bunch of guys sitting around going "heah, those civilians piss me off, let's off em!", the civilians that have died are usually becasue of several reasons:

1. They were simply in the wrong place at the wrong time. A bomb intended to kill a UDR member or some other part of the crown forces has gone off. Since the killing of this person/persons cannot be accomplished safley(safely as in ensuring the safety of the operatives doing the operation) without there being some civilian casualties. Terrorist intelligence officers (such as those in the IRA) take alot of time in planning, getting information, and learning the routes/habits of the person/persons that are marked. Some people cannot be safley executed without the posability that there will be civilian casualties.

2. Simple Mistake. People make mistakes, it's natural, and messages do not get sent, etc. A good example would be the killing of a UDR member, whom was staked out, studied, etc. Only it was later discovered that after the hit he had retired from the UDR six years ago. This info did not reach the appropriate people in time or was not found out until later.

3. People see shit they should not have seen. In order for a organization such as the IRA to work and survive, those that have seen or heard something that might be damaging to the internal workings or the organization sometimes have to be eleminated in order so as that the group is not compromised.

4. Shit get's blamed on them. When the killing of innocents happens by oh let's say, the British military, "well then would you look at that, so many innocents dead. Guess the para boys got too drunk last night. Oh wait, this was really the work of the IRA, yeah, that's it...." I believe my point comes across.

As I would like to contine on with this argument and continue getting reasons posted for your bleeding heart's content, I have other matters to attend to. We'll continue this later.

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"It's not the fall that kills you, it's the sudden stop"

[oconner]

I think they are guerillas, fighting for what they believe in.

[revolutionary spirit]

it's nice to see links being drawn up with the FARC

[MaQuIs]

Just bumping the topic.

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"I am not a liberator, the people liberate themselves"
-Che Guevara

[tyronelad]

although the IRA has made a number of mistakes, the only time they directly set out to kill innocent civilians was during the UK mainland campaign. certian other areas were attacked (City of London, Manchester) which were attacked for the economic implications which they held (one IRA bomb cost £200million worth of damage)

The La Mon bomb masscare was one of the troubles bloodiest and brutal terrorist incidents. However, it emerged the IRA unit which planted the bomb was also in charge of making the warning- they had planted the bomb in such a way as there was very little time to defuse it, but when they went to call in the warning they found the public telephone had been vandalized, and they failed to send a warning.

[Matt]

Depending on whose defining "Terrorism" & "Freedom Fighters" results in society either condemniing or supporting a cause.
Personally, I believe the IRA are and always have been Freedom Fighters using Guerilla warfare since they could never wage a full on war with the UK.
The history of Northern Ireland, the Black and Tans, Special A's & B's etc. who have persecuted catholics in the country for over 3 centuries, following the English idea that any country nearby should belong to them.
I don't agree with killing innocent people although as in any war legitimate targets (Military posts etc.) being attacked is fully justified. My only problem is that, yet again, who should be providing the vast percentage of arms and cash to the IRA?, our great allies the US.
The whole biased view we see and read means that the only people who really understand and have a genuine viewpoint are the people of N. Ireland. In any case, the conflict is not about religion or even a united Ireland, it actually boils down to who controls the black market.

[Malvinas Argentinas]

you can call them terrorists due to the fact that they produce terror, but i think they are gurilla forces who are fighting for their belives

[Kingnothing]

I think you cannot call the IRA terrorists becouse the tactics they use are a response to State Britsh terrorism which rapes their culture and dicredites their belifs by trying to impose brittich beleifs upon the Irish people. Maybe some of the tactics used by the IRA are quistionable as they threaten the life of ordinary citizens. But we must not be fast to condone, we must understand the situation the Irish people have been forced to live in, for centuries the english vave not only controlled the Irish government but also the economy forcing graet parts of the Irish poplutaion into poverty due to British colonialist explotation. So, the IRA are not terrorists, they are fighting a war that they need to fight if they want freedom in the only way they can fight it.

[MaQuIs]

Thank you for proving my point for me my friends.

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"I do not liberate the poeple, liberators do not exist. The people liberate themselves." -Che Guevara

[CheateN02]

My family HAD close IRA links my great grandfather was shot dead during the easter rising... nowadays the IRA are just gangsters if you live in Belfast you will know.. i live beside Sinn Féin HQ Ireland and they allow thugs to drink on street corners and steal cars most of these people are in the ira... the irish people of northern ireland have no where to turn the RUC have pulled out the Brits have pulled out we are now being ruled my gangsters.. but their is a force that is stoping these thugs
they are the Irish Nation Liberation Army and are the terrorist wing is the IRSP

i support the IRSP and INLA i think the ira are useless now

[Maaja]

They are freedom fighters. Just that killing the inocent people is the only possibility for them to show that they exist and that the Northern Ireland wants the freedom. No-one would ever think about their existance otherwise. It's cruel to say so but I guess it's their only possibility to express their thoughts... Although I don't like the violence they use, I still do understand them.

[MaQuIs]

Bump. Just keeping the topic alive.

[ID2002]

IRA, are a bunch of militants who bomb others in the name of seperation of state and religion. I was in Ireland in the summer of '95 and saw just how bad the IRA can be. It wasn't fun and I was in fear of my life. I got shot at several times!!!
The whole conflict was over the Christian religion. HOW SAD!
....maybe a reason why I switched to Buddhism!