Why did we need capitalism?

[Snitza]

Why are the grounds for a communist society built upon the foundations of capitalism? WHY specifically is it called for that we go from feudalism->capitalism->socialism->communism? Is it not possible to go from feudalism directly to a workers' state?

[redstar2000]

Is it not possible to go from feudalism directly to a workers' state?

Well, it's been tried. It didn't work.

For reasons that are unknown (at least to me), so-called "epochs of production" seem to be associated with certain levels of technological development. As technology develops, the existing relations of production no longer "make sense" (partly because they begin to falter under the strain)...and people become open to ideas that seem to "make more sense".

But if you take a system that is evolving from feudalism to capitalism and try to impose socialism at gunpoint on it, you've actually created an even greater strain.

You can "force the tempo" of that society's technological and economic development, but consciousness lags...only by imposing tremendous stress can you "make" a peasant into a modern worker. In a sense, that's what both Stalin and Mao actually did...it was a very unpleasant task, involving many casualties.

Having fulfilled what is essentially the historic task of the bourgeoisie, you find that you have become bourgeois yourself!

Naturally, you donate the red flags and the party cards to a museum and proceed forthwith to introduce modern capitalism.

It does not seem humanly possible to "skip stages" by an "act of will".

:redstar2000:

The Redstar2000 Papers (http://www.redstar2000papers.fightcapitalism.net)
A site about communist ideas

[Invader Zim]

It seems that like with many things you must wait for conditions to become acceptable before progress can be made in high rates.

For example 500 years ago the masses were very porrly educated, and relied upon their "lord and master", to give them income, and the right to work on his land. This Lord would also have had armies, and any revolt would have been quickly put down. This is because the population was mainly ruraly based, many people never even left their home villages. The one and only thing which gives a revolution any reasonable chanse of success is strength in numbers, a Mass uprising. If your whole world is 50 people in a small village in the middle of the country, you do not have the unity to achive that kind of success. It was not until the industrial revolutions (which is also a catalyst for capitalism), and the transfer to urban living that, these kind of large numbers could be gathered, and mass popularity and support for a movment can be made.

Its all to do with how advanced society is.

At least thats how I see it.

[gaf]

1642 mr bontekoe ,assign pirate from holland ,but paid by VOC(east indy company unified) did a blokus of aktuel sri lanka and destroy all cinnemon plantation the goal was to rise profit from all exportation from hollands colonies ,
its not needed ,its just monney so old as the writing history of the world.....
my point is so far i look in history,greed writes it...
and if you "work" it is for monney,no(also)?
without monney it could be autonomie,or knowledge exchanging,or solidarity....

[Snitza]

1642 mr bontekoe ,assign pirate from holland ,but paid by VOC(east indy company unified) did a blokus of aktuel sri lanka and destroy all cinnemon plantation the goal was to rise profit from all exportation from hollands colonies ,
its not needed ,its just monney so old as the writing history of the world.....
my point is so far i look in history,greed writes it...
and if you "work" it is for monney,no(also)?
without monney it could be autonomie,or knowledge exchanging,or solidarity....


:blink:

I think I've become dumber from reading that post.

:blink:

[Don't Change Your Name]

Originally posted by [email protected] 1 2004, 05:10 PM
Why are the grounds for a communist society built upon the foundations of capitalism? WHY specifically is it called for that we go from feudalism->capitalism->socialism->communism? Is it not possible to go from feudalism directly to a workers' state?
Because capitalism is a system which gives a lot of importance to innovation and technology, so it is very productive and useful to get out of feudalism and bring more wealth to the population. Some day it will collapse and it will have to be replaced.