History at School

[Sammi87]

I did history for gcse in High School and was wondering who else did/does do history (in general not necessarily gcse) and what you think of it?

Overall I enjoyed history predominantly due to the fact that my class had an excellent teacher but despite the assurance that the history course we were undertaking was relativly unbiased i tended to feel that it was and such things as communism always seemed to be treated like an inconvienience by the syllabus and was covered as quickly as possiable in order to get it out of the way. Does anyone else find this? This is just example, but other aspects like some of the allies biggest defeats in WW2 seems to be missed out etc.. and in general i felt it was quite selective.

Having said that my teacher was excellent and would anwser any question about anything but if for some reason he didnt know he would find out and then next lesson relay the information, which i respected greatly as i know of other teachers who just tend to side step an issue.

Anyway I just wondered what everyone else thought.

[Invader Zim]

I found that the very basis of school history, at least at the A-Level standard, is not about facts, and rights and wrongs, rather opinions. You are given a contraversy, and the facts behind the contraversy, usually from the opinions of divided historians. You are then asked to evaluate the worth of the opinions.

The course teaches you that all history is Bias, and that you must make an informed decision based on sources and your own knowledge. To say the course is bias is foolish, as you are asked to evaluate both sides of the coin.

What you are asking, is should more time be spent on other subjects within the sylabus. That is an answer only you can make, based on personal preferrance of an era, and subject. The course actually provides a large range of subjects, it is the schools decision which you cover. So a degree of bias exists there, but the course is not inherrently bias.

For example you mentioned that studies of allied victories are extensive, and defeats are not so extensive. Which may well be the case, but a who section of the course is dedicated to appeasment, which ultimatly was a failure on the part of Britain and France. The contraversy is, was appeasment the correct policy. Not, was it a success, which ultimatly it clearly was not.

At least not in my own experiance of A-Levels and GCSE's.

[DaCuBaN]

To say the course is bias is foolish, as you are asked to evaluate both sides of the coin

This is certainly true of every history teacher I've come across in the UK, and certainly of my own school days.

I would be interested to hear the opinions from other parts of the world...

My only complaint with history in school is that it's not compulsary. It really really should be. I'd assert it's more important than mathematics or physics.

[James]

My only complaint with history in school is that it's not compulsary. It really really should be. I'd assert it's more important than mathematics or physics

Aye; i agree

[truthaddict11]

come to the us it was compulsuary for us. I mainly slept in history classes, only class I stayed awake in was "history" of the 60s and 70s imagine a class where all you mainly do is listen to old music and watch movies.

[blink3270]

I go to and international high school and im in the spanish track so we hav a Mexican and Spanish ciriculum....the ciriculum itself isnt baised against communism and although we don cover the theory of Marxism that much we talk about it and how it changed mant countries....the ciriculum mainly centers on Spain tho....i hav an AMAZING teacher whos jus as interested in Che as i am and who will answer ne ? i hav....

[Invader Zim]

Originally posted by [email protected] 29 2004, 02:50 AM
come to the us it was compulsuary for us. I mainly slept in history classes, only class I stayed awake in was "history" of the 60s and 70s imagine a class where all you mainly do is listen to old music and watch movies.
How can you sleep in history, the most interesting subject in school...

Well I suppose its all opinion, I sleep in Computing and Geography.

[Pawn Power]

i have had many good history teachers throughout high school, but their is always and underliying biased
highschool history classes and the text books are filled with lies, exagurations, and misleadings

[Invader Zim]

Originally posted by [email protected] 30 2004, 12:24 AM
i have had many good history teachers throughout high school, but their is always and underliying biased
highschool history classes and the text books are filled with lies, exagurations, and misleadings
I take it you are from the US.

I have no experiance of the US education system, but it would not supprise me, conservative valuses appear much stronger over there. So naturally they spread into the class room.

[Guest1]

Canadian history courses, which are compulsory, weren't too biased I found. The problem though was that they're so stuck on teaching midieval european history, renaissance history and early north american history.

It pisses me off, we must have spent about 8 years of history courses talking about the 100 years war and Colombus and the bullshit crusades.

I wanted to learn about the spanish civil war, about the french revolution and things like that, but no...

[Pawn Power]

I take it you are from the US.

I have no experiance of the US education system, but it would not supprise me, conservative valuses appear much stronger over there. So naturally they spread into the class room.

you are correct, i am fro the US :( . And their is alot of biased and false iformation given from both the conservative teachers and the libral teachers. We learn alot of false information. Just now i am learning about falseties i was tought years and years ago.

[Chad King]

I remember having a conversation with a old school buddy several weeks back and he mentioned how Rome fell... well, I explained how it didnt really fall, being as the capital was moved into the Ottoman empire and Atillla the Hun simply marched in with not that much resistance because Rome sucked at the time... he didnt know that... so yeah... I was born and raised in the US, and I thought the History classes were horrible, I lived in the North and learned about the Civil War, and moved to the South for awhile and learned a whole new aspect of it I would have never been taught on... I guess thats all dependant on geography tho...

And one thing I hate is when I hear people laugh and say "history repeats itself" Im sorry, Im more of a fan of saying the human mindset repeats itself that allows a portion of prior human failures and ignorance to seep in, just like Napoleon and then Hitler trying to march into Russia and failing...

[Roses in the Hospital]

I think that bias in History is more likely to come from the teacher than the course itself. We had a fairly balanced GCSE course (which included a module of Mao's China) due to having a teacher who had more of a passion for presenting an unbiased view of History than any particular political stand-point. At A Level (modern History) there's a slight bias against Communism but I think this is due to the teachers' ignorance of what Communism really is, a shame because History lessons are potentially a good source of gaining converts...

[The Children of the Revolution]

I'm SURE one of my A-level History teachers was a Communist...

As people have mentioned, History is all about opinions - interpretations of the same events and similar sources. Only the "lunatic fringe" differ wildly from an accepted mainstream; the maniacs that deny that the holocaust actually happened, for example.

However, History courses can obviously be biased. Simply by focussing on the interpretations of right-wing (or indeed left-wing) historians and the sources they used. Or by highlighting certain aspects of a particular topic and exaggerating their importance - then asserting this as a "natural" viewpoint.

A "good" historian will see past this, in any case.

I went to a Gramamr School in a HIGHLY reactionary town. (Tory stronghold for the past few centuries, I believe...) However, the school was something of a hotbed for revolutionary ideas, I think. We engaged in some Nazi-bashing at GCSE level and then studied the Russian Revolution excessively in Years 12 and 13. The course was balanced and the teachers - like I said, lefties themselves; often ranting on for hours about the evils of modern capitalist society or taking a swipe at Pipes. (A particularly extreme right-wing American Historian) I love the subject.

(One teacher of ours was also an avid fan of "The Who". He brought in videos and Cd&#39;s from time to time. And once, as a special "treat", he played the Russian Communist Anthem in class&#33; He knew all the words... In Russian... <_< )

[Take the Power back]

My US History teacher is a former Navy Lt. Commander, and still acts in naval intelligence and the CIA. With that said, he offered us a very unbiased view of communism, especially when we discussed the 1950s and 1960s. His main argument being: Nobody bothered to learn anything about it, and just bought everything the government told them about it. He blasts the governments actions in Vietnam, in Iran, Guatemala, and in Iraq. He has given us huge backstories to every major event in our history, and, in some odd way, he refuses to call the confederate naval flag (stars and bars) anything but "that damn jackass flag." I am taking his worl history 4 class next year, so I can learn about the cuban revolution in great detail.

[DaCuBaN]

Fighting imperialist wars will tend to turn a decent human being into... well a decent human being really&#33;

I&#39;m glad to hear he doesn&#39;t blindly love his country, and is teaching his students to think likewise.

After all, if a navy officer says it, not even the most raving fascist could ignore it ;)

[Hate Is Art]

I love History Classes. We get a really good balance of all aspects, Stalins Purges but his industrial sucess&#33; Somethings I thought were a bit quickly done, Lenin&#39;s time in charge for example and anything post Cuban Crisis wasn&#39;t covered on our slyabus, but overall a very worthwhile class&#33;

[fernando]

History classes here are simple...very pro western and US government, at least the book is like that...very pro Isreal, no bad thing about the Isreali actions.

There was this chapter in my old history book about Latin America, and it said that the militairi juntas were good and brought peace, freedom, democracy and wealth to Latin America...I remember my mom cursing at the book for hours :o (my mom is from Peru and she witnessed the revolutions there and in other Latin American countries)

We got sources to research, one letter by a Palestinian kid and one by an Isreali, both letters lacked objectivity, which wasnt a bad thing. But the answerbook (you know where all the answers to the questions of the workbook are) said we could only use the Isreali letter, because the Palestinian was unobjective and anti-semetic...

The Isreali letter described Sharon as a great and just hero, while Arafat was an evil terrorist out to kill all the Isreali people...funny though that a source which claims Sharon to be an "innocent" hero is allright (eventhough Sharon killed many many people wile bombing Beiroet) while some kid who writes down that Allah will kill all the jews because they killed his family is "evil muslim propaganga"

I dont trust history classes, I try not to see it as 100% truth

[Cognitioned Kazak]

I am remarkably satisfied with Canadian highschool level history. All teachers I have had have been critical of nearly everything and they were far from frightened to highlight horrid mistakes the administration of this country has made in the past. I do have a concern though for thoose to the south of me. I have had many a talk with those from the states that believe and have been taught nothing but u.S exceptionalism and to be perfectly honest that scares me.... Historical revisionism is especially evident in some schools in the united states. I have come across history professors who claim the Russians hardly aided in the glorious triumph of allied forces in the second world war. I have had this woman flat out deny the defense of the ural mountains (notably stalingrad) up untill 1943 as the germans were in near full retreat. This professor went on and on praising lend lease and the magnificent accomplishments of the western allies and though I will not doubt their contribution I personally believe the soviets fought a majority of the war for us (us being the western powers).. not because Im a leftist nut case hoping the soviet union will make a reappearance in Russia ...but because numbers and dates suggest it. Anyways just my two cents.. and I do realize I cannot class all schools south of me in this manor but I found it very disturbing that this professor could be spreading these clear misconceptions among the youth of america.

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[truthaddict11]

Originally posted by [email protected] 29 2004, 07:03 PM
]
How can you sleep in history, the most interesting subject in school...

Well I suppose its all opinion, I sleep in Computing and Geography.
i love learning about history i just read the entire book beforehand and slept in the class.

[Saint-Just]

I am very interested in history. This year I will be starting a Modern History degree. At A-level you learn more about different historical interpretations. But, it is still extremely biased. Every historical tract you read is biased. I have read two biographies of Mussolini, from conflicting stances. One portrays him as an idiot and the other as a capable and strong leader, both did it very well. Theres little way of knowing what is right and what is wrong.

We all know that the holocaust happened, but when they took David Irving to court they found it almost impossible to prove him wrong. The judgement said that he was a a very good researcher and although very difficult to probe him wrong he simply was wrong.

[The Children of the Revolution]

Every historical tract you read is biased ... There&#39;s little way of knowing what is right and what is wrong.


That&#39;s why you&#39;re studying History, comrade&#33; A good Historian will be able to recognise this bias and take it into account when reaching a judgement on a source. The role of the teacher is to encourage this "questioning" attitude and not to present these views as fact; rather, to present them as interpretations - which themselves are up for analysis&#33; You could spend two full years (at A-level) looking at nothing but the views of extremely biased "right-wing" Historians; and yet emerge a committed Marxist. :)

Incidentally...

Where is it you&#39;re heading to study Modern History?

[pandora]

History and social studies should be interactive, ie look at your own personal history and the history of your family and relate this to world events. It is important to be reflective in regards to history, Paulo Freire speaks about how to do this. Cheers

[gaf]

since history is written you have to look in all directions(also the one from the winner,and the looser)
mytes and legend are a good begining also people like ibn batouta(traveller) ,realife experience written by people from ,war and other plague, may give you a tip of what it was like in all time. but also listening to old people may give you a clue other our history
learn to read between the words.

[Saint-Just]

Originally posted by The Children of the [email protected] 2 2004, 02:47 AM


Every historical tract you read is biased ... There&#39;s little way of knowing what is right and what is wrong.


That&#39;s why you&#39;re studying History, comrade&#33; A good Historian will be able to recognise this bias and take it into account when reaching a judgement on a source. The role of the teacher is to encourage this "questioning" attitude and not to present these views as fact; rather, to present them as interpretations - which themselves are up for analysis&#33; You could spend two full years (at A-level) looking at nothing but the views of extremely biased "right-wing" Historians; and yet emerge a committed Marxist. :)

Incidentally...

Where is it you&#39;re heading to study Modern History?
Thats true. But teachers do tend to represent many things as facts even though they may not necessarily be true. That is because of course teachers have their own viewpoint, usually a liberal bourgeois viewpoint.

I am studying Modern History at Westminster. What University are you at?

[The Children of the Revolution]

But teachers do tend to represent many things as facts even though they may not necessarily be true. That is because of course teachers have their own viewpoint, usually a liberal bourgeois viewpoint.


Perhaps... But their "duty", as it were, is to teach the study of History&#33; If they do this, it shouldn&#39;t matter if they themselves adopt a "liberal bourgeois viewpoint", the opinion of a right-wing holocaust-denying lunatic, or that of a righteous (&#33;) Marxist&#33;



I am studying Modern History at Westminster. What University are you at?


Westminster? Cool. I&#39;m at the University of York although I&#39;m studying History in general, not only the modern period. I have this morbid fascination with the Ancient Greeks that I&#39;d hoped to follow up... :lol:

[Invader Zim]

Originally posted by The Children of the [email protected] 6 2004, 01:19 PM



I am studying Modern History at Westminster. What University are you at?


Westminster? Cool. I&#39;m at the University of York although I&#39;m studying History in general, not only the modern period. I have this morbid fascination with the Ancient Greeks that I&#39;d hoped to follow up... :lol:
The V100 course or V101?

I may go to either U of L Goldsmiths or to Aberwyrstripksdp&#092;go/;iopnhnhith. (the problem with Wales, god damn impossible to spell names.)

[The Children of the Revolution]

Was this directed at me? Or Chairman Mao?

I&#39;m doing the V/100 course, I think&#33; But I&#39;m not entirely sure...

Aberystwyth [???] is apparantly one of the top universities in the country for Politics and History courses. What kind of offer have they given you? (The bastards at York insisted on AAB&#33;&#33;)

[Saint-Just]

I didn&#39;t know there was a V101. I thought all history was V100.

I&#39;m assuming you&#39;ll go to U of L Goldsmiths is your back-up choice Enigma since it is harder to get into Aberystwyth I think.

[Hate Is Art]

I want to study Medicine, my friends bro was trying to get into Cambridge to do a Masters (or something) in History, but he is in India at the mo.

[Ziggy]

I took AP world history this year. I thought the class was well taught (Mr. Goldfarb was an amazing teacher, how many teachers do you know enjoy talking about philosophy, ideologies, theater, and good books in their free time with you and buys you bagels the day of your final? :lol: ) and I also detected no bias in the textbook. I was quite impressed, . The book may have been tedious to read but the whole course is as if you are on the moon watching the earth from 800,000 BCE-2001 CE. it was very interesting but disapointing we couldn&#39;t dive into some things as much as we wanted to because we had to move so fast.